Can US Senators be recalled?? One way to STOP the illegal war is recall those

[L. Coyote]

who support it, a la Pete Wilson. (Thank you, California Repubs for this idea.)

Am I wrong here?

US Constitution: Section 4. The times, places and manner of holding elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each state by the legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by law make or alter such regulations, except as to the places of choosing Senators.

For example, in Arizona Senator Kyle can be recalled. This seems rather clear to me, but I'm not a constitutional scholar.

Arizona Constitution, REMOVAL FROM OFFICE, Officers subject to recall; petitioners

1. Officers subject to recall; petitioners

Section 1. Every public officer in the state of Arizona, holding an elective office, either by election or appointment, is subject to recall from such office by the qualified electors of the electoral district from which candidates are elected to such office. Such electoral district may include the whole state. Such number of said electors as shall equal twenty-five per centum of the number of votes cast at the last preceding general election for all of the candidates for the office held by such officer, may by petition, which shall be known as a recall petition, demand his recall.

2. Recall petitions; contents; filing; signatures; oath

Section 2. Every recall petition must contain a general statement, in not more than two hundred words, of the grounds of such demand, and must be filed in the office in which petitions for nominations to the office held by the incumbent are required to be filed. ..................

[sinkingfeeling]

1. Don't think the Arizona constitution will let you recall a US Senator.

"Every public officer in the state of Arizona", that's not what a US Senator is.

[L. Coyote]

5. The AZ constitution regulates electing them, so it should apply.

If they are not state of Arizona officials, what state are they from??

[Zensea]

7. They are not "State of Arizona" officials

They are United States officials from the state of Arizona.

Do a little googling on the subject and you will find that there is information that specifically addresses this topic.

[L. Coyote]

8. They are "State of Arizona" officials. They represent Arizona, are elected in AZ ...

Present some basis for your conclusion if you can. I've cited the Constitutions. Show us where they are contradicted, please.

Or, is this just your offhand opinion?

[Zensea]

15. Here's some research, OK?

A simple google of the terms "recall provisions united states" for example brings up something.

I found this as the top item, for example doing that .
lugar.senate.gov/CRS%20reports/Recall_of_Legislators_and_the_Removal_of_Members_of_Congress_from_Office.pdf -

Under Article I, Section 5, clause 2, of the Constitution, a Member of Congress may be removed from office before the normal expiration of his or her constitutional term by an “expulsion” from the Senate (if a Senator) or from the House ofRepresentatives (if a Representative) upon a formal vote on a resolution agreed to by two-thirds of the Members of the respective body present and voting. While thereare no specific grounds for an expulsion expressed in the Constitution, expulsion actions in both the House and the Senate have generally concerned cases of perceived disloyaltyto the United States, or the conviction of a criminal statutory offense which involved abuse of one’s official position. Each House has broad authority as to the grounds, nature, timing, and procedure for an expulsion of a Member. However,policy considerations, as opposed to questions of authority, have appeared to restrain the Senate and House in the exercise of expulsion when it might be considered as infringing on the electoral process, such as when the electorate knew of the past misconduct under consideration and still elected or re-elected the Member.

As to removal by recall, the United States Constitution does not provide for nor authorize the recall of United States officers such as Senators, Representatives, or the President or Vice President, and thus no Member of Congress has ever been recalled in the history of the United States. The recall of Members was considered during the time of the drafting of the federal Constitution in 1787, but no such provisions were included in the final version sent to the States for ratification, and the specific drafting and ratifying debates indicate an express understanding of the Framers and ratifiers that no right or power to recall a Senator or Representative from the United States Congress exists under the Constitution.

Although the Supreme Court has not needed to directly address the subject of recall of Members of Congress, other Supreme Court decisions, as well as the weight of other judicial and administrative decisions, rulings and opinions, indicate that: (1) the right to remove a Member ofCongress before the expiration of his or her constitutionally established term of office is one which resides exclusively in each House of Congress as established in the expulsion clause of the United States Constitution, and (2) the length and number of the terms of office for federal officials, established and agreed upon by the States in the Constitution creating that Federal Government, may not be unilaterally changed by an individual State, such as through the enactment of a recall provision or a term limitation for a United States Senator or Representative. Under Supreme Court constitutional interpretation, since individual States never had the original sovereign authority to unilaterally change the terms and conditions of service of federal officials agreed to and established in the Constitution, such a power could not be“reserved” under the 10thAmendment.
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Also found this at
http://www.ncsl.org/programs/legismgt/elect/recallprovision.htm

Overview

Recall is a procedure that allows citizens to remove and replace a public official before the end of a term of office. Historically, recall has been used most frequently at the local level. By some estimates, three-fourths of recall elections are at the city council or school board level. This brief, however, focuses only on the recall as it applies to state officials.

Recall differs from another method for removing officials from office - impeachment - in that it is a political device while impeachment is a legal process. Impeachment requires the House to bring specific charges and the Senate to act as a jury. In most of the eighteen recall states, specific grounds are not required, and the recall of a state official is by an election.

Eighteen states permit the recall of state officials:

Alaska
Arizona
California
Colorado
Georgia
Idaho
Kansas
Louisiana
Michigan
Minnesota
Montana
Nevada
New Jersey
North Dakota
Oregon
Rhode Island
Washington
Wisconsin



The District of Columbia also provides for recalls. Virginia is not listed as a recall state because its process, while requiring citizen petitions, allows a recall trial rather than an election. In at least 29 states (some sources place this number at 36), recall elections may be held in local jurisdictions.

History

The recall device began in the United States in a municipality - Los Angeles - in 1903. Michigan and Oregon, in 1908, were the first states to adopt recall procedures for state officials; Minnesota was the most recent (1996).

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If you think about it a bit, if only 18 states allow recall, that means that it does not have to do with the federal level of Senators and Representatives. You can't have a law that applies on the Federal level only to some states and not to others.

[L. Coyote]

17. Thanks. This is good and useful info.

[Zensea]

2. No, they can't be

The thing you are quoting from applies to Arizona state Senators and Representatives, not federal level.

[L. Coyote]

6. Show us what you found /base your opinion on please, or is it just a comment?

Does it have a basis in law or in precedent? Or is it just your personal interpretation?

[Freddie Stubbs]

11. Here is some heavy duty research on the issue

http://lugar.senate.gov/CRS%20reports/Recall_of_Legislators_and_the_Removal_of_Members_of_Congress_from_Office.pdf

[CK_John]

3. No, same answer for US Reps . n/t

[SaveElmer]

4. No they cannot be recalled...but...

In Arizona there is a recall law...I believe most Arizona politicians pledge to resign should a recall petition be successful...

[L. Coyote]

9. You say: "In Arizona there is a recall law.." So they can be, right.

Why do you say they cannot when you say "In Arizona there is a recall law..."?

Is there a legal basis for your comment?

[SaveElmer]

10. Because Arizona has a law...

Does not make it constitutional...and it isn't.

Candidates, McCain among them, have pledged to resign if a recall petition were ever successful. They would not be legally obligated to however...

[L. Coyote]

14. Can you provide a basis for your assertion that AZ law is unconstitutional?

[SaveElmer]

18. There is no provision in the Constitution for a recall...

And a recall would violate several of the specifics laid out for Senators and Congressman..

First, the term of each is specifically set in the constitution. A recall would unconstitutionally shorten their terms.

Second, the courts have ruled term limits unconstitutional...a recall is a form of term limit

Third, the only body that can constitutionally limit the terms of Senators and Congressmen, are the respective houses that have the power to expel members..a recall would limit that power...

[L. Coyote]

12. Republicans think that Senators can be rcalled. Ask Sen. Inhofe re :Reid!!

NO LESS an authority than another Senator. They should know!!

Wednesday, April 25, 2007 3:31 p.m. EDT
Sen. Inhofe: Harry Reid Should Be Recalled
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/4/25/153524.shtml?s=ic

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid should be recalled by voters over his "un-American” remarks about the Iraq war, Sen. James Inhofe declared. ....

===================
Thanks to Kagemusha for pointing this out on th X-post.

[sinkingfeeling]

20. Apparently Republicans have never read the US Constitution.

[sinkingfeeling]

13. Read this document.

http://lugar.senate.gov/CRS%20reports/Recall_of_Legislators_and_the_Removal_of_Members_of_Congress_from_Office.pdf

Congressional Research Service ˜ The Library of Congress
Report for Congress
Received through the CRS Web
Order Code RL30016
Recall of Legislators and the
Removal of Members of Congress from Office
Updated March 20, 2003

Under the United States Constitution and congressional practice, Members of
Congress may have their services ended prior to the normal expiration of their
constitutionally established terms of office by their resignation or death, or by action
of the House of Congress in which they are a Member by way of an “expulsion,” or
by a finding that in accepting a subsequent public office deemed to be “incompatible”
with congressional office, the Member has vacated his congressional seat.

In some States, State legislators and other State or local elected officials may be
removed from office before the expiration of their established terms not only by
action of the legislature itself through an expulsion (or for executive officers, through
an “impeachment” and conviction by the legislature), but also by the voters through
a “recall” election procedure. While an expulsion is an inherent authority of
legislative bodies incident to their general powers over their own proceedings and
members, recall is a special process outside of the legislature itself, exercised by the
people through a special election. Recall provisions for State or local officers
became popular in the “progressive movement,” particularly in the western and plains
States, in the early part of the 20th Century.21

Constitutional History.
The United States Constitution does not provide for nor authorize the recall of
United States officials such as United States Senators, Representatives to Congress,
or the President or Vice President of the United States, and thus no United States
Senator or Member of the House of Representatives has ever been recalled in the
history of the United States.

edited to separate paragraphs.

[L. Coyote]

16. Recall of Legislators and the Removal of Members of Congress from Office

FROM PDF: http://lugar.senate.gov/CRS%20reports/Recall_of_Legislators_and_the_Removal_of_Members_of_Congress_from_Office.pdf

Recall of Legislators and the Removal of Members of
Congress from Office

Summary
Under the United States Constitution and congressional practice, Members of
Congress may have their services ended prior to the normal expiration of their
constitutionally established terms of office by their resignation or death, or by action
of the House of Congress in which they are a Member by way of an “expulsion,” .....
.....
As to removal by recall, the United States Constitution does not provide for nor
authorize the recall of United States officers such as Senators, Representatives, or the
President or Vice President, and thus no Member of Congress has ever been recalled
in the history of the United States. The recall of Members was considered during the
time of the drafting of the federal Constitution in 1787, but no such provisions were
included in the final version sent to the States for ratification, and the specific
drafting and ratifying debates indicate an express understanding of the Framers and
ratifiers that no right or power to recall a Senator or Representative from the United
States Congress exists under the Constitution. Although the Supreme Court has not
needed to directly address the subject of recall of Members of Congress, other
Supreme Court decisions, as well as the weight of other judicial and administrative
decisions, rulings and opinions, indicate that: (1) the right to remove a Member of
Congress before the expiration of his or her constitutionally established term of office
is one which resides exclusively in each House of Congress as established in the
expulsion clause of the United States Constitution, and (2) the length and number of
the terms of office for federal officials, established and agreed upon by the States in
the Constitution creating that Federal Government, may not be unilaterally changed
by an individual State, such as through the enactment of a recall provision or a term
limitation for a United States Senator or Representative. Under Supreme Court
constitutional interpretation, since individual States never had the original sovereign
authority to unilaterally change the terms and conditions of service of federal
officials agreed to and established in the Constitution, such a power could not be
“reserved” under the 10th Amendment.

=========================================

So, this rests on interpretation, and has yet to be tested in the courts. And, if tested, would probably fail.

[sinkingfeeling]

19. The last sentence pretty much locks out the possibility of it ever changing.

"Under Supreme Court constitutional interpretation, since individual States never had the original sovereign authority to unilaterally change the terms and conditions of service of federal officials agreed to and established in the Constitution, such a power could not be “reserved” under the 10th Amendment."

The Supreme Court would not hear an argument about states having rights to change the terms or conditions of Senators or Reps. because that right wasn't reserved (unto the states) under the 10th. amendment. And with the current Supreme Court makeup, it would never stand a chance.

[L. Coyote]

21. Thanks EVERYONE. This was educational. And that's quick on DU!! n/t