An interesting observation: Why I don't believe Hillary can win.

[Atman]

There have obviously been lots of threads about Obama and Edwards of late. One of the hot ones right now is my own thread deriding Obama for his stance re: COAL as a "green" fuel.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=709774&mesg_id=709774

After hundreds of posts over the last couple of days, every time something negative about Obama is mentioned, the response seems to be about EDWARDS' position, and how it is no better.

Not Hillary Clinton's position. Edwards'.

Point being, it seem that in the minds of everyone except the MSM, the "frontrunners" are Edwards and Obama. Hillary Clinton doesn't even to seem to register on the radar screens for most. It's only an observation, but I think there's something to it. "But...but...but...Edwards is for it to!" is hardly a glowing endorsement of the Clinton candidacy. I simply don't hear from the Hillary defenders. The only people who still think she's even in the race seem to be cable news talking heads. Of course...they have a reason to want her in ($$).

Discuss?

.

[MADem]

1. DU is way left of the bulk of the Democratic Party. To extrapolate to the rest of the party

what is seen here is just not very productive or useful. It doesn't pan out, either.

I say, wait for the debates...at least, before anyone does any judgment passing on ANY candidate.

It's a long way, yet.

[Vincardog]

2. DU is the perfect mirror of the bulk of the Democratic Party.

I say, wait for the debates...at least, before anyone does any judgment passing on ANY candidate.

It's a long way, yet.

[wyldwolf]

5. which is why DU has been so deadly accurate in candidate prognostication?

[Joe Fields]

21. That simply is not true. The bulk of dems are pretty mainstream.

[Ken Burch]

22. Mainstream doesn't have to mean pro-war and pro-globalization.

And it doesn't have to mean a worldview in which we all just accept living at the mercy of CEO's.

Working-class people, people of color, and progressives ARE mainstream.

Let's leave the "only freaks are liberal" talk to Republicans, 'kay?

We're supposed to be AGAINST McCarthyism.

[wyldwolf]

3. you don't believe Hillary can win based on... DU?

:shrug:

Point being, it seem that in the minds of everyone except the MSM, the "frontrunners" are Edwards and Obama.

:shrug:

Sometimes all you can do is shrug.

[jakem]

17. And, based on DU...

Gore has been winning all along, followed by Clark!

:eyes:

[Atman]

4. If there was a way to aggregate opinions on DU, I believe you'd find...

...we're much closer to what "America" is thinking. I know many think DU is "extreme" left, but I find it anything but. Sure, lots of posters lean toward the left side of the plank, but MOST are pretty normal, mainstream folk. Just like in real America.

Is it "too early?" Of course. But my point still stands...People defend Obama by saying "Edwards is no better!" I just don't even seem to hear Hillary's name as part of the equation much anymore.

.

[wyldwolf]

6. Must be a new thing for DU, then.

[Cleita]

8. How true. I believe Howard Dean said it best. What used to

be the centrist position is regarded as the far left today. This is how far right and into fascism that the conservatives have moved in direction.

[Vincardog]

9. Clieta got it in one. NeoConvicts are FASCISTS

[Cleita]

7. My cynical view is that both Obama and Clinton are being

positioned by the RW because they know both of them can be beaten by one of their white male candidates. They know that the majority of America is still biased and not ready for a black or woman president, especially in the case of Hillary, who for some unknown reason has attracted the hatred of the RW of both sexes. (It would be so much better for us if either of those candidates were chosen as VP running mates to our white male candidate. Then they would have a real chance of winning after serving two terms as VP.)

These candidates are also darlings of the DLC, who with the exception of Bill Clinton, have not been very good at picking candidates that exhibit the numbers to win by a landslide, which is what is needed. (Our election system has not been made cheat proof to this day.) This is why Obama and Clinton have been able to raise as much money as they have to date. I will be interested in seeing exactly where the PAC donations come from.

So in order to get a real Democratic candidate elected, we on the true left are going to have to try to outfund the big corporate interests to win the White House in 2008. Also, for anyone who wants to challenge me on this, let it be known that it's only my opinion and I truly hope that I am wrong.

[Atman]

10. Most excellent observation

I think you're on to something. I've been saying since at least 04 that the media wants a woman-black man race, because it will be boffo for ratings. But in the end, MOST of America doesn't live in New England or California. MOST of America will never, ever (ever being defined as my lifetime) vote for either a woman or black man. Personally, I would vote for either one...but I don't own a pig farm in Kansas or have three kids in the Marines.

People, picture the most ardent right winger you know. Sit back...conjure up the picture in your mind...then tell me how you think Joe America would vote if it came down to a BLACK MAN or a WHITE WOMAN. Hmmmm. My guess is he'd say -- "I'll stay home." We, as lefties, like to think we're all that on the progresso scale, but it matters not what we think individually. There are lots of so-called red states whose concerns and fears, however unfounded, will still come into play. Ignore them at our own peril.

By default, the White Guy wins. That's the way it is. Our presidents have always been White Guys. Always. Edwards is the front runner by virtue of his White Guy status. Welcome to America.

.

[mnhtnbb]

11. Actually, the pig farms are in Missouri (and North Carolina)

not Kansas

[Cleita]

14. They are out in Kansas too. I lived on one once. n/t

[flpoljunkie]

13. "Edwards is the front runner by virtue of his White Guy status." Are you kidding?

[Colobo]

19. So, women and black men should even try to run in the first place

[thoughtcrime1984]

25. Hey katz

We both back the same great candidate, but unfortunately, there are still MANY people who can't accept a woman or a minority as their president. Of course they should run, they DO have a fighting chance, history has shown more and more tolerance as we move forward. However, realistically, I have great concern that there may not be enough people who see things as you and I do. I hope for Obama, but am prepared for Edwards as well.

[flpoljunkie]

12. Obama and Clinton "running mates to our white male candidate?" Getouttahere!

[MODemocrat]

16. Pubs may have WHITE males, but none of them are worth a crap

Their lineup is so disgustingly inept.:+ :+ :+ :rofl:

[thoughtcrime1984]

24. Good post!

Although I want Obama to be our president for the next two terms, I am deeply concerned about the willingness of the masses to vote for a minority candidate. I am keeping John Edwards in the back of my mind, because he truly is the most "electable" announced Democratic candidate, IMO. Additionally, I like a number of his detailed stances on issues that pertain to the middle class. Edwards-Obama will probably cross many minds in the coming months, as much as I'd like it to be Obama-Edwards. We desparately need a Dem president, that's about all I know for certain.

[MasonJar]

15. I am from Kentucky and at this point all I can say is that coal is not

green. I doubt it ever will be. Let's start the propaganda for a new lifestyle for America. We are destroying the earth, singlehandedly. We must stop or we will be stopped.

[Colobo]

18. For me, Edwards and Obama are the candidates to beat

The two strongest candidates we have. The real battle is between them.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

20. Katzenkavalier, I was wondering...I know you're a strong Obama supporter.

I like him too. But, do you think Gore could beat Obama?

...(PS. Is that you in your picture? Or just some handsome athlete?)

[Colobo]

23. To answer your two questions...

1) I think Gore is letting his chance slip away. Had he entered the race in January, I would have said definitely. However, at this point Obama has emerged as a very strong candidate, at least in terms of fundraising capability. So, Gore would have his hands full against Clinton, Obama and even Edwards at this point, because he has let these other candidates take over the imagination of the media and the electorate.

2) Well, the guy in the picture is Puerto Rican former boxing legend Felix "Tito" Trinidad.

There is a picture of me somewhere around here... let me find the link. :)

Here it is:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=6439989&mesg_id=6439989