Which America do you live in, John Edwards?

[Bread and Circus]

First off, let it be known I still really like John Edwards and I hope that he, along with Barak Obama, goes far in this election process.

However, I think it's hypocritical for him to run around this country talking about the "Two Americas" when he goes and gets a $400 haircut on the donor's dollar. Even if he spent his own money, $400 for a haircut is ridiculous and just a symbol of vanity and greed in my book. The uber-powerful have a sense of entitlement a mile wide and John Edwards apparently is no stranger to this state of mind.

I for one, won't donate to John Edwards now or in the general. Apparently, he doesn't need my money because he can afford to throw it away. That's not to say I don't wish him well and I hope he can redeem himself. However, this is a symbol in my eyes of the two-faces of a politician who likes to make political hay over the "Two Americas" but when it comes to his hair we know which America he likes.

[rusty charly]

1. don't fall for the haircut crap

[IA_Seth]

39. How is this crap?

It seems pretty straightforward.

Someone that has that kind of money to throw toward a haircut is not living in 'my' america. Plain and simple.

Now, are any of the other candidates in 'my' america? Of course not. So if the crap you refer to is Edwards being singled out, I will whole-heartedly agree...it's crap.

But these storied do highlight the disparity between the 'leaders' and us 'followers', doesn't it?

[saltpoint]

66. If crap is your thing, check out the Republican field.

They're absolutely, definitionally LOADED with it.

More than enough to keep you busy without your throwing in against the Democrats.

[EC]

70. His "haircut" is including the travel expenses of his

barber...and who cares which America HE'S in, if he's willing to help those struggling to make it? This is what I expect the rich to do, help the poor and middle class...he could be like most of the other rich and ignore us...

[w4rma]

123. Hillary Clinton's $1500 Haircuts, Expensed to the Campaign

HILLARY GATHERS AN ARMY
By IAN BISHOP
Post Correspondent

July 24, 2006 -- WASHINGTON - Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton's campaign army has increased its ranks to 50 staffers and more than 20 consultants, specialists in everything from fund-raising to speech-writing to hairstyling and makeup.

Clinton, the likely 2008 Democratic White House front-runner, ponied up nearly $3,000 in campaign cash for her blond tresses to get some presidential pampering from acclaimed D.C. stylist Isabelle Goetz.

Recently released federal fund-raising records show Clinton shelled out $1,500 in April for Goetz to carefully craft her coiffure and another $1,000 for a camera-ready clip in May.

She passed off both styling sessions as "media production" expenses.

Clinton was so desperate for Goetz to style her gilded mane, she picked up the scissor siren's $405 travel tab in April and a $38 expenses tab in May.

Goetz, a fixture at the swank Cristophe salon and the favored stylist of John Kerry, has been clipping the former first lady's locks for years - she's credited for updating Clinton's coif from country to chic. To complement the touch-up of her tresses, Clinton invested another $3,000 for makeup maestro Barbara Lacy to brush on some blush.

Lacy is a Tinseltown pro who applied the makeup to actors' mugs in movies including "Minority Report," "Runaway Bride," "National Treasure" and "In the Line of Fire."

She can also take credit for working the West Wing - the NBC version. Clinton paid Lacy an eye-popping $1,600 for some eye-lining in mid-May and another mind-boggling $1,300 for some makeup two weeks later.

Again, Clinton justified the makeovers as a media production expense.
…
http://www.babalublog.com/archives/003657.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=698126&mesg_id=698126

Edwards Flattens Coif Controversy
April 18, 2007

ABC News' Raelyn Johnson Reports: You can tell it's political season when people are putting a fine tooth comb to, well hair. A report filed with the Federal Election Commission last weekend revealed that former Sen. John Edwards' D-N.C., presidential campaign twice shelled out $400 for haircuts he received from a Beverly Hills salon.

Just as fast as gossip spreads in the fashion salon, ABC News has learned the money will be returned. "As for the haircuts, the bill was sent to the campaign, it was paid in error, and Edwards will be reimbursing the campaign," says campaign spokesperson Eric Schultz.

The hair cut revelation did little to minimize what some call Edwards' 'Breck Girl' image. Earlier this year, YouTube showcased a video of Edwards fixing his hair before a televised interview, demonstrating the unforgiving power of the site.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/04/edwards_flatten.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3224029&mesg_id=3224029

[Clark2008]

121. Can I fall for the "he voted for and sponsored the IWR crap," then?

Because, I think he's a big phony more because of that, his helping write the PATRIOT Act, his writing legislation for the big banking industry, his never helping the poor when he was a senator and his saber-rattling for war in Iran than I am because of his haircut.

Although, I will concede that the two $400 haircuts fall in line with his other bad judgments.

[THUNDER HANDS]

125. don't fall for the crappy haircut either

go to Super Cuts!

(this post sponsored by Super Cuts.)

[SaveElmer]

2. I don't really care about the cost that much..but...

C'mon, he could have gotten that very same hair cut in a Hair Cuttery...

[draft_mario_cuomo]

33. Did HRC list how much she spends on her hair in her FEC report?

I bet it is more than the cost of a simple Hair Cuttery cut...

[SaveElmer]

35. Jeez...you can't even take humor without a Hillary attack...

My point was...and I guess I will have to spell it out...is that his haircut was nothing special...he could have gotten that same cut in a hair cuttery...

[candice]

3. Wasn't it a barter...no money changed hands...

[Cameron27]

9. No, he was billed for two cuts from this stylist I believe,

and once for a make-up session at a spa.

[AndyA]

4. Why don't you contact his campaign and ask them about it?

You can fill out the form on this page, or use the phone number or address listed:

http://johnedwards.com/about/contact/form/

Tell them you'd like to know why he spends so much money on haircuts. And let us know what the response is.

[Bread and Circus]

8. Why don't you?

[AndyA]

18. Um, I didn't ask the question, YOU DID.

:eyes:

[ThomCat]

5. Who cares about his haircut?

He's trying to reduce income inequality. Concentrate on his politics.

It's funny that nobody ever pays attention to how much republicans spend on stuff.

[Nederland]

77. The reason nobody cares how much Republicans spend

...is because they aren't hypocrites about it. Republicans don't hide the fact that they are on the side of the rich (not those lazy poor people) and would like to protect the "rights" of rich people to live whatever extravagant lives they want to. Edwards has a problem here because he seems to want to have it both ways. He wants to be seen as on the side of the poor while enjoying his million dollar house and $400 haircuts.

[Clark2008]

122. His politics don't mean shit if he doesn't abide by his statements.

Come on - you can't see the hypocrisy?

[Warpy]

6. That haircut crap is right wing propaganda

since there is nothing to note that he got the haircuts two weeks apart, which seems a bit excessive in any case.

I'm surprised people are falling for it.

Another thing to remember is that poor men don't run for president. The best we can ever hope for is a middle class man who made money through his own talent and who remembers where he came from.

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. Wake up, rich guys spend $400 on haircuts. They don't do

things the same way that working people do. You'll be waiting a long time if you are waiting for some populist working guy to take a run as a presidential candidate.

He'll never miss your $10 donation.

[Bread and Circus]

21. Ok, here's the deal...

Yes, I know people spend stupid amounts of money on haircuts. My wife is one of them. She won't get her hair touched for less than $150. However, she's not trying to play the populist bit like JE. Well, she does but she's not running for office.

Frankly, JE is just being a hypocrite on this one.

I spend $20 on my haircuts and $7 of that is the tip. My hair looks as good as Edwards. Any self-respecting guy just wouldn't waste that much money on something so temporary anyway.

But honestly, this all makes me wonder which America John Edwards really likes to live in. Or perhaps he's trying to make it so we all get $400 haircuts. The new "One America" where everyone has enough cash to look their best?

As for Republicans, I'd hold them to the same standards but we already know which America they live in and which one they forgot.

At the very least, this is bad politics on Edwards part.

[Donnachaidh]

47. bad politics is a freaking HAIRCUT?

You're kidding right?

And do you have the numbers on all the other candidates? BOTH sides?

I think you should put your soapbox away until you can compare ALL of them. Anything said before that is just another "let's badmouth the other guy's candidate" post.

:grr:

[Egnever]

71. ABSOLUTELY

When your campaign theme is two americas and you pay for that haircut with campaign funds you betcha it is.

[Honeycombe8]

107. All the candidates are mega-rich. They drop $400 like I drop $1.

They do it so often they probably don't even remember that $400 for a haircut is a lot.

I'm also guessing that he didn't PERSONALLY pay for it. He probably has some assistant who pays his bills for him.

I would guess that Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, and most of the big name politicians pay a lot for grooming services. Their appearance is a HUGE factor in their success.

Besides, if Edwards paid $400 for a haircut, I must admit that he seems to have gotten his money's worth. He's lookin' good. Is this guy NEVER going to age?

[Selatius]

10. You see, I think this is out of bounds.

If you want to attack John Edwards, attack him for his positions on the issues. What is his position on single-payer health care? What is his position on free trade and NAFTA? What is his position on the war in Iraq? Public education? The minimum wage? College tuition and student loans? Job training programs? What about Bush cutting funding to the food stamp program or trying to bury the SBA?

You see, if somebody is coming over that hill with a message about poverty, then it's fair that you should attack his message if you feel he is being dishonest, but you could do a whole lot better than his haircut.

[Suich]

11. Didn't they complain about Clinton's haircuts, too??? n/t

[waiting for hope]

12. Take a read here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3221513

I would like to know how much Romney, McCain, Hillary, Obama and the others spend on their appearance. I would bet you a zillion dollars that the answer will surprise you - these people are "politicians", not unlike Hollywood types, they have to be careful about their appearance in the media. Get over it.

[Skinner]

13. Every single one of our presidential candidates is affluent.

Are none of them permitted to talk about the poor?

[Selatius]

17. Apparently not without being called hypocrites by some.

Sure, it lends a certain amount of street credibility if the politician in question is relatively modest on the money front in terms of net worth (like Kucinich) or the next Jesus Christ, but in our fucked up system, we are reduced to voting on rich people into power, and of the rich people, we prefer rich people who want to do something about poverty, as opposed to rich people who want to bury workers alive with that "I'm gonna get my kicks before the shithouse burns down" philosophy.

[Norquist Nemesis]

22. Apparently, they're supposed to act like they're poor too. n/t

[Bread and Circus]

36. Don't be simple minded...

You know Edwards is staking his claim on his "Two Americas" bit. However, how believable is he when he gets a $400 dollar haircut? It's like a right winger staking their claim on moral values and then being caught in a strip joint. Sure, he has a right to go to a strip joint but it doesn't jive with what he says on camera. Every time this happens it ends up on "Top 10 Conservative Idiots" and rightly so.

[Skinner]

46. Thank you for that personal attack.

Now that you have gotten that insult out of your system, please answer my question:

Every single one of our presidential candidates is affluent. Are none of them permitted to talk about the poor?

[Bread and Circus]

50. You asked a facetious question...

did you not?

It's not about being wealthy, there's nothing wrong in that. Wealthy people can speak their mind. So the direct answer to what I consider your facetious is question is that affluent presidential candidates can talk about the poor.

However, it seems common sense to me that it is disingenuous to base a campaign on talking about the poor, reminding us of the millwork values he was raised with, yet disavow those values by getting a $400 haircut. Not only that, he does it on the donor's dollar.

I gave $2000 to Wes Clark in 2004 and I spent alot of time and effort to help him. If I found out he was spending my money on a $400 dollar haircut, I'd be pissed. Wouldn't you?

Also, I think you are shortcutting logic here and that's why I implored you not to act simple minded.

I have great respect for you and this board but I give no one a pass.

[Skinner]

56. Right now, John Edwards is the *only* first-tier Democratic presidential candidate...

...who is regularly talking about poverty. Neither Hillary Clinton nor Barack Obama has said anything about this issue, and I suspect neither will, except to give occasional lip service.

Obviously, getting a $400 haircut is dumb politics. But the bottom line is that all of the three top-tier Democrats is wealthy. They *all* live in the same America. If you truly care about the issue of poverty, who is the best candiate: Two wealthy candidates who have barely said anything about the issue? Or a wealthy candidate who has made it a centerpiece of his campaign?

To "simple minded" little me, the answer is obvious. And I think the answer should be obvious to all the other simple-minded people who have paid any attention at all to this campaign. But perhaps, in my stupidity, I haven't properly considered the issue through the prism of the all-important $400-dollar haircut.

[Bread and Circus]

76. Here is my measured response:

First you are facetious and now you are being sarcastic. I think if anything, you are belittling me. I didn’t call you simple minded, I just implored you not to be simple minded or read “think in a simplistic way”.

What I know is that John Edwards spent $400 on a haircut with campaign money that people gave to him in good faith. That’s 20 times the amount of money I’d pay for a haircut. It’s offensive to me. If he paid for it with his own money, I’d think ill of him but maybe not be so outraged.

Also, by saying Hillary and Obama are worse you are using the same specious argument my conservative friends use when they say “Well Bill Clinton did this, Bill Clinton did that” whenever I remind them of what a horrible President Bush is. To say someone else is worse or “does it too” does not excuse the behavior.

Furthermore, this site loves to poke fun of a lot of non-critical issues on its top 10 conservative idiot column (which also happens to be my favorite part of this site). Pointing out hypocrisy and double speak for conservatives is ok but Democrats are above examination?

Please, Skinner I implore you to really examine the symbolism of this because it does go back to the values and morals of the Democratic Party, or at least the ones we should have. Wasting money on haircuts is not a good value in anyone’s book.

Also, I grew up on Medicaid, AFDC, food stamps, free lunch tokens, section 8 housing but graduated from a top medical school and I practice family medicine. I save people’s lives for a lot less than $400 to be honest and I don’t mind. Actually I find it a privilege to serve. But I see my patients truly deciding between paying for meds and paying for the rent. This is the America I know and the one that John Edwards purports to care about. Maybe he does. But what kind of message does he send when he gets a $400 haircut? That makes me wonder how genuine he really is.

I guess only time will tell.

At any rate, I don’t appreciate the facetious or sarcastic tone.

[Skinner]

80. I apologize for my tone.

I am well-aware of the symbolism of a $400 dollar haircut. I have said already that getting a $400 dollar haircut is bad politics. It opens Edwards up to the charge that he is a hypocrite, or out-of-touch, or you name it. I suspect he is out-of-touch, but I don't have any reason to believe he is moreso than the other candidates. Is he a hypocrite? I guess it depends on how one defines hypocrisy. This isn't like those people who tell us about the importance of family values while they are cheating on their spouses. Edwards is not going around claiming to be poor, or claiming that poverty is virtuous.

My main point is that if we only permit our politicians to express concern for the poor if they are themselves poor (or barring that, if they act poor), then we can forget about politicians ever expressing concern for the poor. And furthermore we can forget about politicans ever actually doing anything to help the poor.

That would be a horrible tragedy. In this day and age, it is extremely rare to see a high-profile candidate from either party expressing any concern for the poor.

Do I think Edwards blew it on this? Of course he did. But do I think he needs to stop talking about poverty because of it? No way. *Somebody* needs to talk about it, and none of the other candidates will.

[IA_Seth]

45. Right..

Every single one of them are affluent, you basically have to be in order to run for President these days. They ALL live in the 'other' America, the one that my poor ass has yet to see. So when they talk to me like they know me or my lifestyle, they lose credibility with me.

When one speaks about two Americas and then proceeds to live in 'other' America, I think it's ok for us to see some hypocrisy.

[Skinner]

49. Perhaps you would prefer if none of the presidential candidates talked about poverty?

As someone who describes himself as poor, would you consider it to be better if they did not discuss poverty at all?

[IA_Seth]

53. Black or White?

Is it really that black or white for you?

Of course I wouldn't 'prefer if none of the presidential candidates talked about poverty', that's silly.

What I would prefer is that when someone speaks to family values they aren't bangin schoolboys, and when they talk about illegal immigration they aren't hiring illegal housekeepers, and oh I dont know...when they talk about poverty and two americas they aren't getting 400 dollar haircuts and acting like they know my pain.

I certainly realize that our candidates aren't in the same socio-economic group as I am, or the average voter, but I do expect some modicum of credibility with my candidates, and these actions don't do it for me.

[Bread and Circus]

55. Wow, this is exactly what I'm saying. I don't feel so crazy now...

Thanks :)

[Skinner]

64. No, it's not black and white.

But I think you need to think of the candidates' wealth in broader terms than $400 dollar haircuts. None of these candidates has any clue what it is like to be poor. They may not all get $400 dollar haircuts, but if you look closely enough, I suspect you will find plenty of stand-ins for $400-dollar haircuts: Million-dollar homes, exotic vacations, luxury cars, you name it.

I guess I would rather have a candidate that doesn't check with a focus group before getting his haircut, as opposed to a candidate who disingenuously picks a barber based on whether it gives him fake "regular guy" cred. Let's face it, none of these candidates is a "regular" person. They are all quite well-off, and John Edwards is probably the most well-off of them all. I don't want a candidate that treats me like a moron and expects me to think he is some kind of "regular guy" because he gets his hair cut at Hair Cuttery II.

(I say this as someone who would never get a $400-dollar haircut even if I were a multimillionaire. I get my hair cut for $14 at Hair Cuttery II and it looks fine.)

[IA_Seth]

79. "None of these candidates has any clue..."

I agree with you, none of the announced candidates have a freakin clue what it's like to be me...not one of them. They are all wealthy, and I would argue that all of them probably do have expenditures in their personal lives that I would think obscene. I'd wager to guess that they all have 2nd homes worth more than my primary home, and take vacations that cost my monthly salary (easily). That being said, that isn't the point.

The point is that Edwards campaigns on 'Two Americas' and poverty. He represent himself as the champion of the little guy, the son-of-a-millworker, and all that... then he goes and spends more than 400 for cosmetic reasons with donated funds. That strikes me as insincere, and it takes away some of the credibility I saw in him.

The 400 haircut isn't the problem, but it is a symptom of that problem.

[Skinner]

82. That is a fair point of view. The reason why the haircut is news...

...is because there are many people (including his political opponents in both parties) who want you to feel that way. And who stand to benefit from the fact that you do.

But IMHO the problem is that you are creating something of a "hypocrisy trap" for any candidate who dares to talk about poverty. (And for the record, almost none of them are.) Any candidate who does make an issue of poverty runs the risk of being "outed" as a hypocrite who spends money on things that the poor could never possibly afford. If it's not a haircut, it's a big house or a fancy car or whatever.

At least John Edwards is talking about poverty.

[nolabels]

117. Thank you

:thumbsup:

[MonkeyFunk]

119. of course they are

but they should have the sense god gave a goose and not get $400 haircuts while talking about being the son of a millworker, and then billing it to his donors, almost all of whom are far less well-off than he is.

[AndyA]

14. Ignore: Responded to wrong message

[LaPera]

15. Yes, vote for who the republicans want Hillary or Obama as they & their media and the DLC

dictate & shove those two candidates down our throats day after day after day...Do you even know Edwards platform? Or did the media telling you about a rich guy's hair stylist was enough to trash an excellent candidate in Edwards...Gee Obama uses Limos, some have 600 dollar hair cuts, Hillary has thousand dollar dresses...President Clinton the republicans told us stopped Air Force One to get a haircut, a haircut that cost thousands they told us. Oh my!! But you know or were obviously told better...Who told you about & how to believe on this critical issue?

[ShortnFiery]

26. Hey, if Edwards can't apply some common sense to his nouveau rich spending habits ...

then he only knows ONE (the ruling class) AMERICA. :thumbsdown:

It ALL counts. Rich people should NOT be representing us THROUGHOUT our Legislative, Judicial and Executive Branch. If we don't apply Campaign Finance Reforms soon, they'll be two classes: 1) The Ruling Class; 2) The Peasant Class. :(

IMO, Edwards has forgotten the first America if he can TAP down some of his spending habits while touting a so called Populist Stance.

[LaPera]

34. Maybe he has Maybe he usually spends 1000 bucks on a haircut how in the fuck

would you know? Every candidate running is filthy rich (except Kuchinch)... Again, what do you know about Edwards platform and what issue don't you agree with? But a fucking haircut means what your voting for

[ShortnFiery]

97. The FINANCIAL breech between The *filthy rich* and the rest of us is OBSCENE.

This IS coming down to revisiting "1929 Crash" and we genuinely need true populist type candidates who "set the example" --> NOT arrogant rich people who can NOT even begin to relate to the average American Wage Slave.

[draft_mario_cuomo]

48. "Rich people should NOT be representing us"

So you are supporting Kucinich, who is the least affluent candidate for president and even he makes six figures a year.

[LaPera]

57. Your wrong. Tell me that when the republican corporate structure no longer

is allowed to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on elections...When we take aways corporations status as having the same rights as individuals then I would consider your statement...However, my favorite president was as liberal as Kucinich (whom I also support) and as progressive platform as Edwards has and he was extremely rich his name; FDR and JFK to name another rich democrat, whom I admirer!!!

I'm sure each being rich also had their little indulgences as Edwards!!!

[ShortnFiery]

96. No, I don't support "the ruling class" to run OUR country of "The People." Period. n/t

[William769]

29. Why name other candidates in your attack?

I don't like Edwards, but I have yet to attck him over this thing about haircuts. You cheapen yourself when you do that.

You can bet you last dollar when I go after someone, I don't need to use other candidates to make my case.

BTW, I do have a favorite but any one of our candidates right now, I would vote for in the General including Edwards.

[LaPera]

42. Exactly how much would you approve of for a haircut?

Some rich spend a thousand for a haircut...in Beverly Hills thousands...So, if your rich how much do you spend, when you've been going to the same person and paying that amount for years?

[William769]

69. I really don't care about the price of a haircut.

[rubberducky]

16. Guess it`s time to take a poll on how much it costs

foe haircuts for all polititions. Next thing will be how much his suits cost. Who cares??? Sounds like a great right wing talking point, though.

[Kerrytravelers]

19. Remember Clinton's $200 haircut outrage? This is just recycled.

It's not that big of a deal. I pay quite a bit for cutting, styling and color touch ups. Quite frankly, there is a huge difference between what he got and what one gets at Super Cuts. He is in the spotlight, he has to look excellent, otherwise we'd hear endless remarks about how sloppy he looks and how someone who looks so sloppy shouldn't be our President.

I bet he spends a fortune on his suits, as well. Is that a problem? :shrug:

[Norquist Nemesis]

20. You're falling for that??? Honestly?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EDWARDS_HAIR?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Looking pretty is costing John Edwards' presidential campaign a lot of pennies. The Democrat's campaign committee picked up the tab for two haircuts at $400 each by celebrity stylist Joseph Torrenueva of Beverly Hills, Calif., according to a financial report filed with the Federal Election Commission.
...
Torrenueva - who specializes in men's haircuts - confirmed in an interview with The Associated Press that Edwards is a longtime client and friend.
...
One reason the cost of the cut was so steep even by Beverly Hills standards is that Torrenueva went to Edwards rather than the candidate coming into the stylist's salon a block off Rodeo Drive.
...
Pink Sapphire co-owner Ariana Franggos said the two payments last month- $150 on March 7 and $75 on March 20 - were for doing Edwards' makeup for television appearances. She handles makeup for local television personalities and was referred to Edwards through that connection.

The whole hullabaloo is ridiculous!!!

[Bread and Circus]

23. Smart politics: Edwards goes to a local barber shop...

enuff said.

[LaPera]

27. Smarter voters ignore the silliness & the bullshit, that's obviously courting a political agenda!

[Skinner]

30. Well, duh.

Of course it is smart politics to get your haircut at the local barber shop.

But your post didn't call him a bad politician. Your post called him a hypocrite. Big difference.

[Bread and Circus]

44. There's two points here...

1.) It's bad politics
2.) It's hypocritical to preach a populist message about two Americas, giving lip service to caring about one and living in the ivory towers of the other. Did he not retain the millworker values he preaches about? What millworker would get a $400 haircut?

[SOS]

87. Was FDR a hypocrite?

He was from a rich family and did more for working people in this country than any other President.

[Bread and Circus]

99. Umm.... I didn't say being wealthy prohibits one from advocating...

for the poor, working class, or middle class people of America.

You present a straw man argument but I don't think a discerning reader will be duped.

If Edwards wants to capitalize on millworker values (as he has) then he has to pay some homage to the thrift and tight budgeting skills it takes to make it as a millworker. Throwing your money away (actually other people's money) on a haircut is just a symbol of how out of touch politicians are these days. It's one thing to have a $1,000,000 home. That's tangible. But it is another sort of vanity altogether to spend on a haircut what it takes a working family to feed their children for 2 weeks.

I know people here don't want to "speak evil" of Democratic candidates. I appreciate that sentiment. However, we have to hold our own to the highest standards of fidelity.

People think I'm making a big deal out of a $400 haircut but I'd ask them to look past the concrete event and into the symbolism of it. Symbolism is important for leadership.

Furthermore, I highly doubt FDR would have spent $400 on a haircut but he might have made a similar layout for something frivolous. I would have called him on it too if he was trying to make political hay by claiming to have "millworker" values.

I'm iffy on Edwards. I really want to like him but I can't decide if he's genuine or just putting on an act.

As for policy matters, I think all the Dems are gonna be about the same. If memory serves well, during the last election cycle their policies all ended up sounding alike because they consulted the same experts and advisers. At any rate, I'd take any of the Dems over the Republicans I've seen running.

I think the message I'd give Edwards is this: You don't have to look, act, and live like a pauper to impress me - however, if you showed some humility and financial restraint it would go along way with me and be much more consistent with your cautionary message about the growing divide between the haves and have-nots in this country.

[Forkboy]

100. Thank you for your posts in this thread.

You have a patience to explain that I simply don't have anymore.

It's not even about Edwards to me.I'm not trying to trash the guy,and haven't said anything negative about him in the past.This is the kind of thing that just keeps reinforcing the belief so many people have that politicians have no idea what their daily lives are like.

Just last week we were having a ball mocking Guiliani for not knowing the price of milk and bread but I'm seeing the exact same disconnect here today from DUers.I understand the urge to defend him because he's a Democrat,but it's very disappointing to see one of the few candidates I felt might understand a bit show that he doesn't yet.

[CreekDog]

110. Pursuit of Happyness

Bread, by the way, please send a letter to Chris Gardner (author of Pursuit of Happyness) and chastise him for being a hypocrite. After all, in the movie about him, in his book and in his interviews, he talks about knowing how it is to be homeless, poor and worried. But he's stinking rich and has been for years since then.

By your standards Chris Gardner cannot claim any understanding of being poor or struggling for money or success because he is now successful. If he wants to promote his movie about his life, he should become poor again, or else stop claiming to know or care anything about being poor or hopeless.

============

It is not hypocritical to say that you know how it is to be poor or working class when you are NOW rich but were poor or working class before. You can understand without being poor.

=============

If you know of a candidate that could end poverty tomorrow, but vote for a lesser candidate because the former candidate is not poor or middle class himself, then you are not wise enough to be deciding this election.

[CreekDog]

116. You made the straw man argument that we are so easily

poking holes in.

You criticize Edwards for living like a wealthy man, but advocating for the poor. When confronted with FDR as an example, you suddenly say it's okay to be rich and advocate for the poor, which is counter to all your previous arguments.

If your argument about Edwards is correct, it should be correct when applied to other candidates, but with FDR and JFK, two great presidents and extremely successful politicians, your argument about what will not work falls flat on its face. And you won't admit that your argument only applies to Edwards this year and has no record of being true in other cases.

You are all over the map on this.

[bling bling]

108. Did FDR vote FOR the Bankruptcy Bill in 2001? Edwards did.

Yes, FDR did more for working people in this country than any other President.

But what does that have to do with Edwards? All I hear about is how much Edwards does for poverty and how this makes him the populist choice. I have waited and waited and waited for someone to post exactly WHAT Edwards has DONE for poor people.

You'd think with all the hootin' and hollerin' I'd get some substantial responses, and GOOD stuff too. Stuff that would leave me feeling really impressed. So far I've gotten links to a bunch of speeches he's given and links to mediocre (and that's being extremely generous) bills he supported that helped some kids get into college and what not. But nothing that justifies the label he gets of champion of the poor.

[Norquist Nemesis]

38. Sure! And then you can get enraged because he's a hypocrite

who can afford a better haircut. He's just pocketing his profits, or acting like he's a common guy when he's really a millionaire, or some other such nonsense.

It's a silly non-issue and just par for the course in "the vetting process", I guess.

[Beaverhausen]

67. Where should he buy his clothes? Where should he eat dinner?

Where should his kids go to school? What kind of shoes should he wear?

Please, tell us what else you would decide for him, since you seem to think you have a right to.

[damntexdem]

24. I don't live in a country of $400 hair cuts.

But neither do I wish to live in a country that conducts its political discussions on the basis of who gets $400 hair cuts.

[Bread and Circus]

28. It's not the haircut, it's the symbolism of the action.

[w4rma]

61. The symbolism of actually paying a professional for a job well done?

We wouldn't want that now would we?

[Cobalt Violet]

85. Excellent post.

I don't find any thing inconsistent with that.

[bunkerbuster1]

25. Thank you for your concern.

[bklyncowgirl]

31. So when do we see Barack Obama heading into Supercuts to make a point that he's a normal guy?

Or Joe's Barber Shop on Chicago's South side? Edwards did something really dumb here.

[BeyondGeography]

32. The NY Post says Hillary spent $3K in donor cash on her hair

and no one cared.

Maybe the point is men aren't supposed to be so vain (even if they increasingly are).

OK, flame away, it's the NY Post:

<Last summer, The Post broke the story that now-Democratic presidential front-runner Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton ponied up nearly $3,000 in campaign cash for her blond tresses to get some presidential pampering from acclaimed D.C. stylist Isabelle Goetz.>

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04172007/news/nationalnews/johns_400_trim_nationalnews_ian_bishop.htm

The problem, as has been stated by many others, is that Edwards billed his campaign for this expense. I say that not because it shows he's a cheapskate (doesn't matter to me), but because he handed this story to the media the second he listed it on his FEC filings. He knows he gets flack all the time from the MSM for being a pretty boy, and then he creates a mountain of negative publicity for himself.

Dumb!

[Bread and Circus]

37. I don't like Hillary anyway, and this only fuels my ire

[bklyncowgirl]

84. I don't think she should be spending donors dollars on her hair either.

Hillary Clinton certainly has a fine hairdoo--no doubt about it--she looks great. If I was giving to her campeign, though, I'd prefer to see my money going for something else--ads, position papers, polls, staff you name it.

[PresidentObama]

40. John Edwards has a great life story. He went from an average American to living the American Dream.

He's earned his money, and now he's using his time to help others instead of sitting on his money and counting his dollar bills. He's out helping those in need. Edwards getting a big money hair cut isn't enough for this common sense voter to count him out. He's too good of a candidate to do that.

[Tom Joad]

41. I never spent more than $300 on a haircut. Even including tip.

[Bucky]

51. As long as I've got an oatmeal bowl & mom's hands don't shake too much, mine are freebies

[Donnachaidh]

43. Listen to Rush much?

And how much does HE spend on haircuts? :sarcasm:

Yeah, I know, probably HALF what Edwards does. :rofl:

[TayTay]

52. I have been critical of John Edwards, but this is a crappy charge

So is the charge that his house is too big. What possible relevant point does that bring up as to what issues he believes in and what focus he would bring to bear on the issues? Who cares how much he was charged for a haircut? What does that possibly have to do with his stand on the issues?

This is what the RW does to Dems, it takes a nonsensical point and tries to make it seem like it the Dem in question is some sort of hypocrite. This is ridiculous. There are better issues that can involve legitimate criticism on former Sen. Edwards, criticism that is fair and based on his record and that he is probably ready to address in his campaign.

Edit: spelling

[movonne]

54. Oh for Christ sake get off the Edwards haircut thing..I'm sick of hearing

about all this nonsense...there are so much more important things to talk about than a stupid haircut..Iraq, Iraq and Iraq...

[TwilightGardener]

58. The criticism is justified here--and I like Edwards. But this shows

poor judgment concerning appearances, especially since he's been stung pretty badly about his new house--why risk giving opponents even more ammo over something so trivial? And it shows mismanagement of campaign funds--if he used out-of-pocket money, then no one would have known or cared. GOPers and the media will beat this drum, and he gave them the drumsticks.

[BeyondGeography]

59. There's a simple question and a simple answer here

Q: If Edwards had to do it all over again, would he have paid for the haircuts with his own money?

A: Hell yeah.

[TwilightGardener]

62. Yup--pretty sure he'd like a do-over.

[Carolina]

72. as well as a do-over

for his IWR and Patriot Act votes ... :shrug:

I'll get flamed for this but I'm sick of the need for do-overs, apologies, regrets and such excuses as ... " if I'd known then, what I know now ..."

We need leadership on the front end. Positions are one thing; actions/votes are another.

Back in December, I heard Edwards speak here in SC, and when queried about his IWR and Patriot Act votes, he was sadly disappointing, talking in circles that said nothing. Yet he's supposed to be a smart lawyer. The crowd was hard-core D/democratic and many of us left thinking he'll never make it.

So I'm still waiting/hoping for a Democratic/democratic LEADER to emerge for 2008 who doesn't have that "wish I could have, should have" baggage.

As a female, I don't think this country is ready for female president yet, so Hillary's out.
As a physician, I know many, good MDs who LOATHE Edwards
As a hybrid Black person*, I know the USA ain't ready for a Black president especially one named Barack Hussein Obama
(*I look Asian and work almost exclusively around whites, and the things that are said in my presence even by liberals confirm this for me)

Paging Wesley Clark

Edited for typos

[w4rma]

60. I am fully supportive of professionals being well paid in their profession

(whether they are hair stylists or computer programmers).

I'd much rather a great hair stylist get that money than a wealthy inheritor.

[Cobalt Violet]

86. Thank you.

I agree with that.

[Bake]

63. Dear God don't let him go to Supercuts!!

Worst haircut I EVER got in my life was at Supercuts in Jackson MS!! Three weeks later it still ain't right (usually it grows out OK no matter how bad the cut!).

JE's a public person, on the platform and on camera every day of the week. He's also a wealthy person who GOT THAT WAY BY REPRESENTING THE LITTLE GUY. He just happened to be exceptionally good at it, and that's a GOOD THING!

I'm not crazy about $400 for a haircut, but did anybody ever ask how much John Kennedy paid for a haircut (and he had pretty good hair, as I recall!).

JE may not live like a millworker anymore, but I'm glad he's talking about the Two Americas, since nobody else is! I don't find it hypocritical at all. He doesn't have to live like a millworker (anymore) to remember what it was like.

Bake

[saltpoint]

65. I'm thinking the various candidates have betrayed you by refusing to

talk about the issues.

No wonder you're upset.

Wait.

They HAVE been talking about the issues.

son-a-gun!

That would suggest you need to spend some time reading what they have to say.

As it stands from your post today, you are incapable of making distinctions between things that matter one minute and things that will matter a week from now, a year from now, and forever from now.

I would have hoped you'd do better. Only 9 months to that first caucus vote in Iowa! Look alive, and vote Democratic.

[LisaM]

68. I have no problem with stylists and makeup artists making a decent living

I have friends who won't pay to get their hair cut no matter what (and it shows). You know what? I think that being a stylist or being a makeup artist are fine professions, designed to make people look and feel good and I, for one, have no problem if they make money that is equivalent to people in other professions. A lawyer of Edwards' caliber, for instance, probably bills over $600 an hour. If he, in turn, wants to pay well for services that other provide to HIM, I think that's fine.

I am really tired of people running down service professions. Wouldn't you rather a successful person like Edwards' pays good value for services, rather than going to somewhere like Super Cuts where the stylists probably barely make minimum wage? I have nothing against Super Cuts per se - I think having affordable haircuts available is important - but why shouldn't professionals at the top of their craft earn a decent wage? I hope Edwards leaves big tips in restaurants, too.

And why shouldn't the campaign pay for it? I've worked on campaigns. There are lots of incidental experiences. Do you remember how Gore was REAMED for a bad makeup job in the debates? Do you want Edwards to go through that?

[w4rma]

73. Also, Edwards had to pay the stylist for travel expenses and time away from the shop

He basically had to pay the stylist for all the haircuts that the stylist couldn't do while away from the shop *and* the travel expenses, plus Edwards's own haircut.

[LisaM]

75. God forbid STYLISTS should make a liveable wage.

Seems to me that Edwards is doing a good thing here.

[Cobalt Violet]

90. He is doing a good thing.

Even stylists need to go to doctors, lawyers, vets and dentist. None of them are afraid to charge what they think they are worth. People are expecting to get something for nothing.

[zanne]

74. As compared to other political haircuts?

I wonder huw much Sen. Brownback pays for a haircut? Or George Bush, for that matter.

[TwilightGardener]

81. LOL! Yeah, let's go on a nice-hair witch hunt--who else has nice hair?

[bklyncowgirl]

83. Mitt Romney, for sure--no Supercuts cheapodoos for Mittens. nt

[TwilightGardener]

88. Nope--no Great Clips for Mittens. Rudy and McCain don't have to worry.

I can't think of anyone else with expensive--looking hair.

[bklyncowgirl]

92. Yeah whatever Rudy & McCain paid--it was too much. nt

[loyalsister]

78. I am with you

Though not exactly endearing, publicly acknowleging excess is one thing.

Many Democrats have to own up to it. Our other candidates will.
From what I have seen, Michelle Obama makes quite a fashion statement. And the candidate himself looks um very "well groomed." Hillary has already been discussed.

They have both positioned themselves on the outside as having had basically privileged childhoods and learning to be "helpers."

But Edwards blew it when tried to put himself figuratively on the inside of poor America and then elevated himself above with the kind of appearance excess that makes people believe that they can recognize "white trash," and any other kind of "human epiphet trash" on the street.

[CreekDog]

114. Edwards put himself ON THE SIDE OF not INSIDE OF poor America

Do you even listen to the speeches?

Understand the difference between knowing what's inside the circle and being inside the circle? You are not demonstrating it. If I root for a team, I don't need to be a member of that team.

So how can I trust you to be getting the facts right on the haircut situation?

The arguments here against Edwards are so poorly reasoned that I think you are turning the rest of us into Edwards supporters.

I have honestly never spent so much effort or thought into defending the guy, but even Republicans have not made it as easy to do as many of you have.

If you really want your point to succeed, please be quiet because when you expect him to have the Hee Haw look, you kind of discredit everything else you are saying.

The worst thing you are saying about Edwards is that he had $400 haircut and treated it as a campaign expense. Holy Cow, that's all you can come up with? No affairs, no crimes, just expensive haircuts. Sign me up!

Yeah really. I'm ready to donate to the guy now.

Sheesh.

[loyalsister]

127. Are you serious?

The poor millers son?
Hee haw? That's quite a stretch. Excess is excess.
He should just drop some of the poverty routine. Some of us who live it don't buy it when people swim in excess and try to "boast" humble beginnings.

[CreekDog]

115. Mr. Edwards, please do not go on nat'l television and say...

That you are sorry, you committed an expensive haircut and treated it as a campaign expense. Please do not get on the satellite interviews to tell everybody how sorry you are about that.

Maybe you shouldn't do it again, but please, please for Pete's sake, please just move on.

[Colobo]

89. I hope my candidate is spending the money I give him on haircuts or personal care

[TwilightGardener]

91. Um, is that sarcasm? (she asks hopefully)

[Colobo]

93. Of course it is! :)

[w4rma]

101. He is. Seriously. He really is. Every candidate does. It's part of the expense of running

a campaign. Unless they're bald... Even then they have that stuff they have done to their face before camera shots (the powder puff thing) and make up and manacures (you can bet that Obama get's manacures if he's smart. That's kind of important when you are shaking hands.).

Usually not in such large amounts at single stylists, of course.

It's important to note (although I know you don't care because you're just trying to find *something* to criticise about Edwards who is overtaking Obama in the polls) that the reason this particular cut cost so much was because that stylist had to drive out to meet Edwards at a campaign stop, so Edwards had to pay for much more than just his own haircut.

[Colobo]

102. I'm rooting for Obama and Edwards, and against Hillary

and Obama is actually getting closer and closer to the frontrunner.

[w4rma]

103. Thanks. (nt)

[CreekDog]

112. JF Kennedy hired his own makeup artist

Richard Nixon in the same debate went without makeup and looked like a regular guy.

Good luck with that.

As for my party, don't you dare screw up my party's nominating a good candidate because he's rich and lives like a rich person.

I am fine with another John F. Kennedy, a wealthy guy who helped the poor and was not thought of as a hypocrite. He also cared about civil rights, but being white, I guess he should have kept his mouth shut.

Dang this stupidity makes me mad.

[PresidentObama]

94. From the title of this hit piece, some of you want Edwards to live in a two room shack.

Despite earning the money he has, because he came from humble beginnings and lived the American Dream to the fullest. And despite the fact he has a great vision for America, a wonderful campaign he can be proud of, and has been one of our parties top leaders for years now. And despite the fact he's worked on important issues like minimum wage increases and poverty.

Fuck all that, he gets expensive hair cuts and has a huge house.

:sarcasm:

There is two America's alright. The smart America and the dumb America. The dumb America is dominated by RWers who spread BS like this. Which America are you a part of?

[MilesColtrane]

95. I'll have to go back and review Edwards' speeches, but I think...

he has never said that he now lives in the poor America.

That would be hypocrisy.

I don't remember him saying that he's one of the economically disenfranchised of this country.
He came from that class, so he has seen it first hand.

While I don't like the idea of him paying for his personal grooming out of campaign money, (Mainly because it reeks of a lack of political savvy.) I have
no problem with a politician pointing out the enormous class differences in this country and vowing to fight to make things more equitable.

Roosevelt was another rich man who fought for the poor.

[ecstatic]

98. I think he will lose a lot of money if this story takes off

I doubt a hard-working family will sacrifice to support the Edwards' campaign, if this story gets out.

[Joe Fields]

104. I guess he should just wear bib overalls and belch out loud in public.

[flying_monkeys]

105. He never said he lived in the Have Not America.

He said he *understood* there was a divide - - and he acknowledges the discrepancy between the CEOs and the PT office help and everyone else in between... but he never said he is one of the Have Nots.


Get real, y'all - - who would vote a man who eats at McDonalds for a treat night out, shops at Walmart for his groceries and drives a beat up car for PRESIDENT? I sure as heck don't want someone like *me* running this country!


Appearances count. The trappings of success (currently $$$$) help people believe one will be successful with running the country. Stringing Edwards up for a haircut (regardless of which pocket paid) is playing into the RNC's hands. They want him out because he is a big threat - - so what better way than to cry HYPOCRICY and have us all tear him apart?


Newsflash - - ALL politicians (and, daresay, people) have at least some isolated hypocricy in their life. The real key is if that hypocricy is small in regard to their general way of life or if it IS their general way of life....

[JI7]

106. maybe he should go clear brush and put on a cowboy hat and boots

and buy a phony ranch just for the purposes of an election like the monkey creature did.

[barb162]

109. I'd rather we talk about how much Bush spends on his haircuts

[CreekDog]

111. Bread is mistaking an audition for Hee Haw with party nomination process

Being a regular looking guy is very important for the former.

It's not actually helpful for the latter.

[CreekDog]

113. If he can win the election, he can spend 100,000 on a haircut

No, it wouldn't be smart, but how much he spends on a haircut is secondary to what his positions are, what his policies will be and if he can get elected to implement them.

If I am sure of the last three, I'd be an idiot to not vote for him over spending too much on a haircut. Some spend too much on corporate jets, heck, this is a better thing to overspend on, it costs less.

[elizm]

118. $400 haircut bad judgment, as was his IWR vote...

Good judgment is something I look for in a candidate.

[Cobalt Violet]

124. Editoral styling isn't cheap.

What he suppose to do? They don't do it at Stupidcuts.

[abburdlen]

126. Bad judgement

was letting it get in the news by having the campaign pay for it.
Sure it can be justified because we Americans are shallow and looks do matter but given the minor hubbub with Senator Clinton's pricey hair expenditures in January you'd think the staff would have been smarter.

The damage is done and now Edwards will have to spend time explaining this mistake rather than important policies.

[union_maid]

120. Legitimate expense

Talking points. They all get expensive haircuts. Edwards' hair made him look like a schoolboy last time. It has some kind of unruly bit that seems to be hard to get going in the right direction, too. You don't think that's important? It is. Do you remember how Hillary got pilloried for not having good hair when Bill first campaigned and took office. She looked like a woman with better things to worry about than her hair, but she got a lot of negative attention for that. Edwards got shit for being the Breck boy. He needs someone with the expertise to make him look presidential.

Also, Edwards never, ever pretends not to have money. He says right out that now that he has everything money can buy he thinks his job is to work at making things more equal for everyone. That's really what's important.