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Talking points that show how bad Virginia gun laws are

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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:32 AM
Original message
Talking points that show how bad Virginia gun laws are
I'm listening to some putz on right-wing radio equating how we need to control video games and child porn more due to the shooting incident in Virginia yesterday. I kid you not. So I did some research on Virginia gun laws. Here are good reasons for gun reform.



CHILD-SAFETY LOCKS
Must locking devices be sold with guns?No

No state requirement that guns be sold with child-safety locks that could prevent a tragic accident. Child-safety locks cost as little as $10 and could save lives if sold with firearms.

GUN MANUFACTURER ACCOUNTABILITY
Do cities have authority to hold gun makers legally liable?No

State law forbids city and county governments from taking any legal action to hold gun manufacturers accountable, even when they act irresponsibly in the way they design, market or distribute weapons. No other industry enjoys such special immunity for irresponsible conduct.

GUN SHOW CHECKS
Are background checks required at gun shows?No

LICENSE OR PERMIT TO PURCHASE
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns?No

No state requirement that handgun buyers obtain a handgun license or undergo any type of safety training prior to buying a handgun.

LOCAL GUN LAWS - PREEMPTION
May cities enact laws stronger than the state's?No

State law forbids local city or county governments from enacting any local gun laws, even though the state has failed to pass responsible state-wide laws. This preemption of local government authority makes it impossible for cities to enact sensible gun laws to make their citizens safer. Local laws enacted prior to 1987 were allowed to remain in force.

REGISTRATION
Are all guns registered with law enforcement?No

No state requirement that gun owners register their firearms. Police do not know how many guns are in the state or where they are. The lack of registration data makes it more difficult for police to trace guns used in crime, identify illegal gun traffickers or hold gun owners accountable for their weapons. There is no state system to automatically identify and disarm felons and other prohibited people who bought guns legally in the past, but later committed a crime or otherwise became ineligible to keep possession of their firearms.

SAFETY STANDARDS
Are there consumer safety standards on guns?No

No state requirement that handguns meet any basic safety standards. No requirement that guns be sold with a child-safety lock or a built-in personalized lock to prevent unauthorized use. No requirement that handguns have loaded-chamber indicators or magazine safety disconnects that could prevent unintentional shootings. The state Attorney General is not allowed to independently establish handgun safety standards.

SAFETY TRAINING
Is safety training required for handgun buyers?No

No state requirement that handgun buyers receive any safety training at all. No requirement that handgun buyers demonstrate any familiarity with gun laws or knowledge about safe handling/safe storage of handguns.

No state requirement that a Brady criminal background check be done on people buying guns at gun shows if they are sold by "private" individuals or gun "collectors." Gun shows can operate on a "no questions asked, cash-and-carry" basis, making it easy for criminals and even juveniles to buy as many guns as they want at gun shows, including assault weapons. No records are required to be kept on gun show sales by private individuals or gun collectors, making it almost impossible for police to trace such weapons if they are used in a crime.

SATURDAY NIGHT SPECIALS
Are there limitations on 'junk' handguns?No

No state restriction on the sale of Saturday night specials or "junk" handguns. No requirement that handguns meet any safety tests such as a drop-safety test or a firing-performance test. No restriction on the sale of snub-nosed handguns that are very small and easy to conceal.

SECONDARY SALES
Are background checks required on 'private' gun sales?No

No state requirement that criminal background checks be done on people buying firearms at gun shows, swap meets or through newspaper or internet advertisements. Criminal background checks are only required if the buyer goes to a federally-licensed gun store - all other sales are not subject to the background check.

WAITING PERIOD
Is there a waiting period on gun sales?No

No state requirement that there be a waiting period for gun sales beyond the "instant check" in federal law. Police are not given any additional time to run a criminal background check to make sure the gun buyer is not prohibited from acquiring firearms. There is no "cooling off" period to help prevent crimes of passion.

http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?choose_state=...



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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hell, you gotta control LTTEs and freedom of speech before
even considering taking a gun away from someone who is mentally unstable ...

:eyes:
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
2. "No other industry enjoys such special immunity for irresponsible conduct."
tobacco-there have been suits, but mostly unsuccessful. Tobacco kills half a million Americans per year.

Auto makers assume no responsibility for the inherently dangerous products they put on the road. Yes there are specific safety defects they deal with, but not the fact that they are making cars. They are not designed to kill, but they do with regular predictability.

Nuclear power has blanket Federal immunity.
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. Because there is nothing to combat the NRA.
Quick--Think of a large organization with political and economic clout that opposes easy gun access. There isn't one. I did a search a few months ago to see how many pro-gun control sites there are compared to anti gun-control sites. I found hundreds of sites for gun fanatics to go and collect their talking points and "statistics" to use against gun control arguments. I found TWO sites dedicated to stricter gun control laws. We have our work cut out for us.
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virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I as a liberal...
Believe in ALL the bill of rights.... I WILL DEFEND THEM ALL....even the ones I don't like.
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virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
4. Name one of those laws that WOULD have stopped him??
Virginia Gun laws are not to blame....That asshole is.

Don't forget, VT is a "Gun Free" zone
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. We'll see if and how he got his guns
Perhaps we'll never know due to the lax laws.

Personally, I own some firearms. I hunt. I also don't have a problem with guns being licensed and have some kinds of screening before these possibly very deadly weapons are just bought like a hammer at a hardware store.


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virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Than you know about the forms..
Edited on Tue Apr-17-07 10:17 AM by virginia mountainman
and checks that must be filled out to purchase one...

It is NOT, like buying a hammer.....It is comments like that that cost us dearly at the polls.

Virginia gun laws are NOT lax, their are THOUSANDS of gun laws on the books. I KNOW, I am a resident, I am also a CCW holder and carry a side arm for self defence.

I should point out too you that that it is illegal to cary a gun ONTO Virginia Tech property, back in January, I worked hard to change that law, to allow CCW holders the ability to carry a weapon on VT property... some news from that time..

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658

Gun bill gets shot down by panel
HB 1572, which would have allowed handguns on college campuses, died
in subcommittee.

By Greg Esposito

A bill that would have given college students and employees the right
to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the
General Assembly.


Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was
defeated. Yes, this is the same Mr Hincker that is now talking about "all we did to protect the students"

Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill was
defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the
General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students,
faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus.


Emphasis is mine...

I can promise you, that me, and many OTHER Virginia Democrats, WILL RESIST any efforts too erode ANY of our rights. And I swear, that that bill, WILL be revisited....
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. What about the ability to purchase a firearm at a gun show...
As much as you might protest, according to the laws there, you can go to a gun show and purchase a gun with no background check, no need to register and you can be from out of state. This would be like going somewhere and buying a hammer.

Is that true? Are these points incorrect?

GUN SHOW CHECKS
Are background checks required at gun shows? No

LICENSE OR PERMIT TO PURCHASE
Is a license/permit required to buy handguns? No

No state requirement that handgun buyers obtain a handgun license or undergo any type of safety training prior to buying a handgun.

SECONDARY SALES
Are background checks required on 'private' gun sales? No

No state requirement that criminal background checks be done on people buying firearms at gun shows, swap meets or through newspaper or internet advertisements. Criminal background checks are only required if the buyer goes to a federally-licensed gun store - all other sales are not subject to the background check.


I'm just asking about the subject. If you can break it down into a reasonable, succinct argument, I am willing to see your point.

The argument is not the usual right-wing ruse that Democrats want to "take away people's firearms." It's about responsible registration of weapons and some kind of background check in ALL situations. There are plenty of Republicans who support some level of gun safety regulation... after all, James Brady worked for Ronald Reagan. You can't just buy a car off a lot and drive it on the highway without a license. The same should go for buying a firearm.






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virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. The gun show loop hole does not exist...let me 'splain..
Thank you for being willing to think this thru and learn the truth of the matter, many are not willing too.


The loop hoe does NOT, exist, and here is how I can say that:

Does, State or Federal gun laws STOP at gun show grounds?? Are gun shows somehow a special place where gun laws do not apply???

What you have at gun shows, is groups of LICENSED gun dealers, selling their wares, OUTSIDE of their brick and mortar stores, the paperwork is still their, the background checks are still their, the only thing that has changed is a group of gun dealers getting together, to buy and sell, a legal product.

You may say, what about UNLICENSED gun dealers...I say, WHERE?! If they are unlicensed, they are committing major violations of state and federal law. Now, you may have individuals, selling a rifle, shotgun, and yes even a hand gun, outside the sale, in the parking lot. BUT THOSE ARE NOT GUN DEALERS...they are private individuals, making a private sale..In Virginia, that is okay, as long as you are reasonably certain that the person is NOT a felon, nor a minor..

THAT, is what the whiners about the so called gun show loophole is complaining about but, the problem with closing the "so called" loophole is what it will do to collectors, like me (I own several military rifles, I collect them for their HISTORICAL value, most are old WW1 and WW2 era rifles) but the way most of the "gun show loophole" closing laws are written, it would make it a felony for me to sell, loan, or even SHOW my historically significant collection, due to suddenly becoming a "gun show" in my home

The Loophole is really the ability to buy, sell, or even pass down from generation to generation guns as an individual. Some of the proposed laws would even interfere with me passing on my firearms to my children. THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE.

THE ONLY WAY TO CLOSE IT, is to register all guns, and pass a pile of onerous laws...

Gun control, is more about control, than it is about guns.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Thanks for your explanation
I still see that if someone (as you indicated) wanted to get a gun via the old parking lot station wagon scenario, they can do that. As a gun owner myself, I could see how if I wanted to get a gun under the radar, I could.

That said, I'm for reasonable gun regulations such as registration, licensing, background checks, prohibition of arms to the insane, children, and people with felony or violence convictions...in all cases. I also know we don't live in a perfect World.

What boggles my mind about those (usually in the conservative camp) that don't want any form of gun regulations is that they support the draconian so-called Patriot Act. Perhaps that's a different discussion.




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virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I see you point..
And it boggles my mind as well, that those who stand up and scream about protecting our civil rights, who are GREAT defenders of the bill of rights..

WILLINGLY Turn their back on the 2nd Amendment..

They don't see that the same arguments they use to tear down the 2nd, can be turned around and used against the REST OF THEM WITH EASE "like the 2nd Amendment only applies to muskets one"....Turn that around to the 1st Amendment only applies to a quill pen, since the writers never envisioned the Internet, TV, or even radio, so the 1st amendment don't apply

I am proud to say I am PRO-CHOICE...TRULY PRO-CHOICE...

As for gun regulations, I am against registration..History has shown that registration always leads to CONFISCATION.

I have no problem with the Brady check, but serious misgiving about the so called "Assault weapon ban"
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virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. One more thing I would like to point out..
Edited on Tue Apr-17-07 01:11 PM by virginia mountainman
That said, I'm for reasonable gun regulations such as registration, licensing, background checks, prohibition of arms to the insane, children, and people with felony or violence convictions...in all cases. I also know we don't live in a perfect World.


The Brady check system DOES do the background checks.

It is a FEDERAL CRIME for any of these people to have a gun....


Felon, any felony conviction is enough to loose your right to own a gun, even non-violent ones (I think that it is wrong to loose the right to own a gun for ANY NON violent offences)

Any crime of misdemeanor domestic violence is a lifetime ban as well...I disagree with that, for this reason, If I tell my mother-in-law to "Go to hell" that is considered by STATUTE in Virginia, a "Crime of domestic violence" so *POOF* Lifetime ban on firearm ownership, just for telling her to F O..

The insane are FEDERALLY prohibited from owning a gun...

Children are FEDERALLY prohibited from buying guns, and possessing them without adult supervision in nearly all states.

What I am trying to point out is, most of what you ask for, is already in place.
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virginia mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. we know now
We'll see if and how he got his guns

Perhaps we'll never know due to the lax laws.


http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/04/massacre_gu...

Perfectly legally...At some point in every nut case's life, they have a clean record....

No way to "weed them out".... We live in a basically free society, everyone gets a chance to be a law abiding citizen.
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-..__... Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 11:54 AM
Response to Original message
10. I don't see any problem with VA gun laws?
:shrug:

Except maybe they should be more like Vermonts...

http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=VT

Or Montana...

http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?st=MT




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Thothmes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-17-07 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
14. Gun show back ground checks
You are wrong about the requirement for back ground checks at gun shows. If you purchase a firearm from a licensed dealer, he is required to perform an instant background check before he can release the fire arm to you.
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