Wife and I watched "Bobby" last night.

[CANDO]

Wow! The interspersing of real clips was amazing. We both just sat in stunned silence as the credits rolled and they showed a series of Kennedy family photos. Bobby's speech as the movie wrapped up was so, soooo moving. You were just left with the overwhelming realization that we don't have leaders like him anymore. And if we did, he would just be "swift-boated" and marginalized by any means imaginable. This movie should be required viewing for all Americans.

[ElizabethDC]

1. Thanks for recommending it . . .

I haven't seen it yet, but I definitely will now1

[Tellurian]

22. Yes, I saw it the other night..

bring Kleenex... Estevez did an outstanding job of portraying Bobby in a most brilliant way.

Don't miss it. Bobby's dedictaion eclipses the passion he exudes innately, as no other man has since.

[blue cat]

2. I agree

I took my 16 yo niece from a conservative family to watch it...hehe.

[halobeam]

3. I saw it last weekend...

I was in tears for many reasons, one being the 'hope' that people had for their future because of him... who does that for us now, that is actually running in '08?

[elizm]

25. I find....

Senator Obama is very inspiring and hopeful, unlike anyone we have had in years.

[Le Taz Hot]

52. There is no one.

Bobby Kennedy would not recognize ANY of the current Democratic candidates as Democrats -- with the possible exception of Kucinich. He'd recognize them as Republican candidates, but certainly not as Democrats in the ANY sense of the word.

Personally, I can't bring myself to watch the movie.

[KarenS]

4. Thanks for the review,,,

We are planning to watch it tonight. :)

[bigwillq]

5. Thanks for the review.

I really want to see it. Heard mixed reviews but I count a DU's review above that of any "real" critic.

:hi:

[jonnyblitz]

24. freddie rodriguez from 6 feet under was in it.

I just watched it also last week. I liked it.

[hlthe2b]

30. Yes... most people don't realize the busboy he portrayed is real

I vaguely remember the picture of the Latino busboy kneeling over the body of RFK after the shooting, cradling his head and holding his hand. I hadn't realized that he had pressed his own rosary into RFK's hand... There is a lot of (not wholely unjustified) antipathy towards religion on DU, but I was really touched by that story. I'm sure that gesture meant a great deal to Ethel and all the family.

[jonnyblitz]

33. i wasn't aware of all of that! interesting info!

i am a hardcore atheist but the rosary bit doesn't phase me. I am sure he knew the Kennedy's were catholic and wouldn't mind. :hi:

[flpoljunkie]

45. Sadly, this excellent movie was not widely released.

[aquart]

6. Do they mention Eugene McCarthy in the movie?

Anywhere?

[CANDO]

9. Yes, but mostly just by his last name.

I pointed out to my wife that he's not Joseph McCarthy of hollywood communist witch hunt fame. Eugene was a Senator from Minnesota or maybe Wisconsin, right?

[hlthe2b]

13. A bit on Eugene McCarthy, since you asked...

Democracy Now did a nice segment on him after his death in 2005. You can hear the interview or read the transcript at http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/18/1442236

Here's a bit:

But first we are going to look at the life of Eugene McCarthy, the former Minnesota Senator and presidential candidate. He died in December at the age of 89. On Saturday some 800 people filled the National Cathedral in Washington for a memorial service.

McCarthy and the Vietnam War will be forever linked.

It was in 1968 when the Democratic Senator from Minnesota broke party ranks and decided to challenge President Lyndon Johnson for the party's presidential nomination.

McCarthy ran on a platform opposing the Vietnam War. By 1968 the war had already taken thousands of American lives as U.S. involvement escalated under Johnson.

In March 1968, voters in New Hampshire responded to McCarthy's anti- war sentiments. He shocked the nation by receiving 42 percent of the primary vote. Johnson -- the sitting president - ended up wining the New Hampshire primary but his political future changed overnight.

Within days, Senator Robert Kennedy jumped into the race. And then to the amazement of the country, Johnson announced within weeks that he was dropping out and not seeking re-election.

(more at the link above)

[aquart]

19. Yes. He was the man with the courage.

And perfect wonderful Bobby walked all over him.

I still have my McCarthy buttons. When I shook the man's hand, that was when I learned the meaning of charisma. After Bobby was assassinated, nobody could shake McCarthy's hand, the Secret Service kept everyone away.

[Hekate]

21. I still have my McCarthy buttons & flower bumperstickers.When Bobby died it was all over...

I remember being so irked when Bobby jumped into the race, because my friends and I were already working for Gene McCarthy, holding down the storefront headquarters in our town.

But when Bobby Kennedy was assassinated, I knew in an instant that it was all over. What a huge loss to the nation that was, and another blow to the national psyche.

Haven't seen the movie yet, but plan to.

Hekate

[hlthe2b]

28. Aquart and Hekate: I was only 10 at the time, but

can imagine how hard it must have been for McCarthy supporters to accept RFK's stepping into the race--after McCarthy had done so much to move the anti-war movement forward and which ultimately convinced Johnson not to run for reelection.

Why not speak more to that Aquart and Hekate? Did many McCarthy supporters consider moving to the RFK campaign? Was there major ill will between the campaigns? I'm sure I'm not alone in being interested in your thoughts and memories. :thumbsup:

[aquart]

38. I don't know what other people did.

My neighborhood elected a McCarthy slate to send to the convention. I remember traveling to upstate New York to go door to door because the vast majority of volunteers were in the early primary states and they still needed upstate coverage. It was my first plane ride ever.

At this point, all the different campaigns tend to blend in my mind. But I did feel serious ill will to Bobby Kennedy, who was not best loved in my family to begin with. No, we never considered switching candidates.

My mother woke me up with the news of the assassination. We didn't wear our McCarthy buttons that day. I took a transistor radio to work, so I could hear the news. It wasn't the gut punch of JFK's murder, but it was bad.

[Hart2008]

16. Eugene McCarthy was from Minnesota

"Clean Gene" recently died at a ripe old age. I think Carter's choice of Mondale was because McCarthy ran as an independent in '76 and Carter need Minnesota's electoral votes.

McCarthy was a sharp wit. When George Romney, Mitt’s father, said he had been “brainwashed” about Vietnam, McCarthy commented, “a light rinse would have been sufficient.”

Like father, like son.


http://www.rungaryhart.com
http://www.garyhartnews.com


There is no better candidate to run against on the issue of the war.


:kick: HART 2008! :kick:

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. There was definitely a cultivation of wit that seems absent today

George Bush's juvenile insults aimed at the reporters passes as wit. It is not.

I love the old Adlai Stevenson saw. A woman exclaimed: "All the smart people are behind you!"

"Yes, madam" Stevenson replies, "But we need a majority."

Nobody moaned and whined that Stevenson had insulted the intelligence of the American people. Rather, people laughed, because it was FUCKING FUNNY.

[hlthe2b]

26. that' a good one...

I love that these movies and documentaries bring out these anecdotes--that are largely forgotten, otherwise.

[hlthe2b]

10. Yes... from the standpoint of the Oregon and California primaries

The film takes place the day before and the day of the California primary...

I'm not sure, though, what you were asking re: Eugene McCarthy?

[hlthe2b]

7. I did too... Three times! With tears rolling through it often.

I think most of us who remember that time have needed that catharsis SO badly.

Emilio intersperses his vignettes--some based on real lives and others just fantasy--with the real footage in a largely wonderful way, with all of Hollywood's best at his beck and call, it seems...While I think some of the contemporary storyline (the LSD tripping campaign workers in particular and the silliness of the whole Demi More aging diva segments) were a bit over the top and a bit distracting, but the real treat was seeing and remembering the times from the very well done vintage settings and clothing, capped by real film footage.

Estevez did a very nice job with the music too. The queen of queens, Aretha Franklins' rendition of Bryan Adams' gospel-like anthem, "Never GOnna Brake My Faith" with the touching trumpet-dominated orchestral film score, and of course the classic music of the period was just wonderful. I might have to go out and buy a CD this week.

Then, what a treat to see the interviews with the important figures of the day, including interviews with those there that night and candid discussion of RFK's life from the likes of civil war activists, including Harry Belafonte and those who worked on the campaign...

Check it out, folks, even if you did see the movie in the theater, the DVD interviews are an added treat.

If you haven't seen Bobby, please do so.

[midnight]

11. I took my daughter to see the movie when it came out. She

loved it so much she just purchased it for herself. What surprised me was while watching the clips of Bobby, Vietnam, and the poverty, tears came rolling down my cheecks. I was to young to remember him being shot, but I'm old enough to know what his death/loss has cost America. His speech on violence is counterintuitive to the military industrial complexes way of living.

[applegrove]

8. Thanks for the review. I wasn't sure if it was worth renting or not. Now

I will make a point of seeing it.

[Hart2008]

12. Imagine if instead of killing Bobby Kennedy, they only had to silence him...

“we don't have leaders like him anymore. And if we did, he would just be "swift-boated" and marginalized by any means imaginable.”

Imagine if instead of killing Bobby Kennedy, they had only published a photo of Marilyn Monroe sitting on his lap along with a story that they were on a yacht together for a weekend, and because of that RFK was banished from speaking out on the issues of the day. Really that is what happened to Gary Hart in 1988. Without the MSM repeating the story ad nauseum, Hart would have won the nomination and the general election. Bush the elder wouldn’t have been able to pardon the Iran-Contra conspirators who could have been squeezed into testifying against him and he might be properly labeled a criminal instead of a President. No Gulf War I or II. World History would have been changed.

Bobby Kennedy is Gary Hart’s hero:
Where's Bobby?
When was the last time you heard political leaders discussing poor people or the system of poverty in America? And would that silence have anything to do with the fact that poor people don’t vote, let alone contribute money? The last national candidate to link the fate of blue and pink collar working people with the plight of the poor was Robert Kennedy, and he is remembered as both a tough politician and saintly hero for doing so.
The subject comes to mind when leaders” say: “I’m a fiscal conservative but a social liberal.” The only way that shibboleth makes any sense at all is if you define “social” as abortion, gun control, and prayer in schools. But we used to define “social” as the problems of our society-poverty, hunger, illiteracy, homelessness, joblessness, the lonely aged, and on and on. If you use the word “social” in this sense, the sense in which it traditionally is used, you cannot be “a fiscal conservative and a social liberal” for the very obvious reason that it costs some money to help those in need.
The political spectrum is pretty well defined by the orthodox Right on one end and “centrist” Democrats on the other. “Centrists” are particularly fond of the “fiscal conservative but social liberal” formula because it conveniently permits you to work both sides of the street without defining what you are for beyond -work, family, and responsibility. (I’m still looking for someone against those things.)
So what does it say about early 21st century America when the boom of the 1990s created great wealth, the tax cuts of the 1980s and early 21st century concentrate more wealth at the top, the middle class is stagnant in terms of real wages and incomes, and 20% of America’s children are in or very near poverty? Makes you proud of your country, doesn’t it?
Since most of the Democratic Congressional candidates for president voted for the Iraq war, I guess no one will ask the obvious question: How many of our fellow Americans could we have helped with the $200 to $400 billion Iraq will cost us? How much better a country could we have been? Most importantly, What is it about the Iraqi people that makes them so much more deserving of help than poor Americans? Why are conservatives eager to rebuild Iraq and not to rebuild America?
This is not an isolationist point of view. This is not a “liberal” point of view. This is a common sense point of view.
I sure would like to hear Robert Kennedy on this issue.
Gary Hart
August 13, 2003
http://www.garyhartnews.com/hart/blog/archives/000024.php

Almost four years later and it’s déjà vu all over again.

http://www.rungaryhart.com
http://www.garyhartnews.com


There is no better candidate to run against on the issue of the war.


:kick: HART 2008! :kick:

[hlthe2b]

14. You have a point...

a very tragic point...

[Hart2008]

32. It's sad, but it need not be tragic. Hart is still here with us in this fight.

We only need to draft him.

http://www.rungaryhart.com
http://www.garyhartnews.com


There is no better candidate to run on the issue of the war.


:kick: HART 2008! :kick:

[mmonk]

37. Bobby was my hero too and the reason I'm a democrat.

Should I run?;)

[Hart2008]

40. Per your profile, you are from North Carolina. Did you co-sponsored the IWR?

If so, people may be offended.

[Connie_Corleone]

41. WTF does that have to do with a movie?

Keep that crap off this thread.

[Hart2008]

44. He asked for advice. I gave it. That is all. n/t

[mmonk]

46. Some definitions for you.

advice-n. counsel or guidance.

Stereotypes-Stereotypes are ideas held about members of particular groups, based solely on membership in that group. They are often considered to be negative or prejudicial and may be used to justify certain discriminatory behaviours. According to Sander Gilman, stereotypes, by definition, are never accurate representations, but a projection of an individual's fears onto others, regardless of the reality of others.

[Hart2008]

47. It wasn't a stereotype, but a conditional statement.

In another thread, I had an individual indicate that, whoever is using that pseudonym, is a prominent Dem who had considered a run for the Presidency. It would be unusual for two prominent Dems from one state to run for President in the same year. It wasn't a stereotype, but a conditional statement.

You misunderstood something.
If the shoe fits wear it. Otherwise no offense was intended.

;)

[mmonk]

48. I see.

I still could run despite its unusualness.;-) I just don't have the $ (or personality, or looks, or charisma, or...nevermind).

[Hart2008]

49. It is only a $100 filing fee in New Hampshire! n/t

[mmonk]

50. Lol. That's in my range.

On a serious note. How serious is the Hart draft bid and your opinion on how it is going? Also, how do you think the picture situation from years ago will play into any run today and Gary's ability to knock it down early? Thanks in advance as I start to sift through the candidates with a yay or nay early on in the process.

[Hart2008]

51. The draft Hart movement is slowly progressing.

The draft Hart movement is slowly progressing. We are a volunteer movement, so we will crawl before we walk, and we will walk before we run. We know we have the best candidate, both in terms of experience and message. We just need to get the message out.

None of us are web developers, so the website is taking longer than expected. For now much has been written on this thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3193854

The war is the big issue now. I don’t think anyone really cares about what happened 20 years ago. The younger generation will be puzzled about what all of the fuss was about after Clinton’s problems. Just remember that the media in 1988 said that we didn’t want a President who would embarrass us in office. So they kept replaying that story, over and over and over. (Howard Dean supporters can see the similarity with his scream in Iowa.) Then we had Clinton’s parade of bimbos and allegations against him of fondling and rape. It was all hypocrisy since they all knew Bush the elder had a long time mistress on the public payroll and used his office to hide the affair:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_Fitzgerald
If they wanted to report rumors of affairs they should have been even handed about it.

I don’t know what there is to knock down. We can’t prove the negative. Neither Hart nor Donna Rice ever said they were having an affair as such. They are both exemplary people and are entitled to the benefit any doubts. (She now runs an advocacy group to protect kids from online pornography.) The “Monkey Business” was not a small sailboat but a huge yacht with servants, etc. The grain of truth to the story is that Hart and his wife split up on two occasions and during those times he dated. Technically that is adultery, but I think most people can respect that they put their marriage back together and have now been married close to 50 years.

If we get into it on the draft site, we can go into greater detail about the holes in the Miami Herald’s story: who the anonymous source was, etc. The big thing is that the Iran-Contra affair had roots in Miami, and as far as I know the Miami Herald never broke a single story about anything in its own backyard about Iran-Contra. But they did send three reporters to Washington D.C. to hide in Hart’s bushes. They never got the story right and didn’t care. In fact the Miami Herald implied that Hart’s alleged affair was the moral equivalent of the Iran-Contra affair. (Which was Bush disregarding the Boland amendment to fund the Contras in Nicaragua, importing drugs into the U.S. to pay for arms to the Contras, etc.) You put the pieces together.

The bottom line is without the Miami Herald and that story, Gary Hart, in all likelihood, would have been elected the 41st President in 1988, and the whole history of the last 20 years would have been different.



http://www.rungaryhart.com
http://www.garyhartnews.com


There is no better candidate to run on the issue of the war.


:kick: HART 2008! :kick:

[mmonk]

42. Stereotyping sometimes doesn't work (though you can't tell people that live by it)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Resolution_to_Authorize_the_Use_of_United_States_Armed_Forces_Against_Iraq#Voted_against

Here's the vote against it. Check out my representative's vote (D) David Price 4th congressional district.

By the way, I don't have anything against Hart. Just trying to be cute.

[melody]

15. They used to assassinate great and good people, now they character assassinate them

Bobby Kennedy is one of my heroes. What a loss to all humanity.

[watercolors]

17. We loved it!

We remember well , at the time we were in our mid 20's. It was so devastating, I worked hard for John's campaign while in college. Those years have a deep sad nest for me. The speech on violence should be played over and over today till we all get it! I cried so hard over the movie, he would have been a great president! Look where we are today with this idiot and how he has ruined our country!

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. Wife and I watched Bobby last night too!

I thought it was interesting, for sure.

What I liked most were the voiceovers and interviews with RFK himself. Everything he said seemed so unscripted and genuine, and he said stuff that nobody would dare say today. It was remarkable. The film itself was alright.

[hlthe2b]

29. The interviews with the RFK historian and Belafonte were

captivating to me... When Belafonte talked about how he'd supported JFK, but had not INITIALLY thought much of RFK--given his brief, but controversial work on the Joe McCarthy Senate Subcommitte on Investigations. The latter, that like the House COmmitte on Un-American Activitities was going after supposed communists.

While RFK, renounced the actions of that committee, his involvement and less than stellar attitudes towards civil rights in his early years as attorney general, certainly should have given many civil rights leaders pause. The evolution of both RFK --and attitudes towards RFK by the civil rights leaders and the wider African American community-- is fascinating.

The historian pointed out that RFK during the JFK years was not a good speaker and outside John's shadow, this was an area of concern for him. That is hard to believe, listening to his speeches now.

[RestoreGore]

23. I'll be buying the DVD this week. Thank you for this review n/t

[nini]

27. I volunteered for Bobby Kennedy in 1968 - I was 10 years old

Bobby Kennedy is still my favorite politcian/candidate ever. I was devestated when he was murdered - I had no idea at such a young age what this country truly lost. I will never forget Ted Kennedy's eulogy of him - I still cry when I hear it.

We need another Bobby Kennedy - I think we have one on the horizon but I'll keep that opinion for another thread. Right now, I will say Bobby Kennedy was one of the greatest losses this country ever endured. If only......

[MasonJar]

31. Until I saw the movie several months ago I had forgotten how impressive

Bobby's ideals were. He was a man for the ages.

[AZBlue]

34. Any good biographies on Bobby that anyone can recommend?

I saw the movie this afternoon and really want to find out more about this amazing American.

[hlthe2b]

35. In the DVD special features, the mini documentary on RFK

includes interviews with a prominent biographer whose name escapes me. Sorry, I've already returned the DVD to blockbuster, or I'd look it up. Perhaps someone who has the movie could check for you.

His book might be a good place to start, given that he apparently consulted with Estevez for the movie.

[jcrew2001]

36. It sucks that the CIA killed Bobby like they did his

brother - I never bought that whole siran siran stuff.

[Hippo_Tron]

39. I saw it and cried during the last 10 minutes, but the rest of the movie was a letdown

I suppose that what Estevez was trying to do was show people going about their ordinary lives and then how they were effected by this tragedy. The problem is that before the shooting it seemed like most of the characters could've cared less about Senator Kennedy and so it's hard for me to believe that suddenly they were in tears after his death.

The scenes between the kitchen workers, William H Macey's misogynistic attitude, Ashton Kutcher selling LSD, and Lohan marrying Elijah Wood to keep him from going to Vietnam are all good ways of portraying the year 1968 to my generation, who wasn't there to experience it. But only the scenes with the campaign workers and the footage of Senator Kennedy himself really did justice to how much the country lost when Bobby was killed.

Additionally, I couldn't understand the point of Martin Sheen's character. Anthony Hopkins' character got far too much screen time to make the simple point that he had greeted many powerful figures at the Ambassador Hotel and that Kennedy was one of the greats walking through that door as well.

[Riddler]

43. Tears came to my eyes too...

but they were not only for Bobby and what we as a nation lost with his death, but for what we as a nation have become under the traitors who rule this country. Men of passion, ethics, compassion, and ability like Bobby are gunned down in their prime while thieving garbage like the Bushes and Cheneys live to prosper and run the country into the ground to advance their own personal ideology. Men who have the ability to make this nation great, advance personal liberties and rights, and value peace die at the hands of assassins while men who run us into the ground, dismantle our rights, and thrive on war and profits are allowed to live. The saddest part about Bobby Kennedy's death is the realization of not only what we as a nation lost in his death, but what we as a nation reaped because of it.

[bikebloke]

53. Released last week, the video shop didnt have it.

I'm hoping they'll have it this weekend.