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candy331 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 04:00 PM
Original message
Steadfast and unmoved Dean supporter but
I am beginning to think that none of this stuff makes sense anymore. Now I know why half the people in this country don't vote. It would be twice as much sh-t. Clark's endorsement of Kerry is just baffling, truly he would support the nominee but this endorsement is strange for a fellow up till Tuesday night was running to be the outsider and now endorses the insider. Now I,m beginning to wonder, damn I wish I had an inside on Dean's head to know here he stands. I sure hope the grassroots that started want end if he is no longer the dominant spokesperson.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. These claims to being an outsider can't be made by any of them.
that's the truth.
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candy331 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. So is it going to come down to that there is not
a dimes worth of difference in them, just the outside packaging?
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ShimokitaJer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Don't you believe it, candy!
It's only a simple step from that to "I guess I might as well vote for whoever's the most electable." The only chance the Kerryites have to covert people is making them think what's inside doesn't matter.

More to the point, why should Clark proving to be all surface make you worry about Dean?
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ShimokitaJer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Only to the extent that...
nobody who can compete at that level in politics could be a complete outsider.

I find it hard to believe that you could consider Dean, Kucinich, and Sharpton to be insiders, especially in comparison with Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt, and Lieberman.

Clark, on the other hand, was a bit of a mystery. He was outside in terms of personal experience but inside in terms of strategy and backers. I guess it was hard to judge him based on his claims, and we can only look at his actions once he leaves the race to know where he stood.

Looks like he was pretty inside after all.
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AP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
5. To me, it makes it look like he just wanted to stop Edwards.
Edited on Thu Feb-12-04 04:16 PM by AP
But, of course, I'm biased.
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candy331 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I am not wavering by any means on Dean but
my thing is will the so to speak insiders get to Dean with similar results as Clark is showing? I liked Clark when he came on board but the more I read and learned about him I backed off but in the last month/so I did reconsider Dean/Clark as I thought I saw genuineness in Clark I didn't feel or see at first.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. Insider *Is* as Insider Does
Kucinich has been inside the beltway for years but no one would call him an insider because he hasn't toed the line. To a smaller extent, the same might be said of Clark and Dean. Kerry, Gephardt, and Lieberman would qualify as insiders in most people's books.

Dean claims to directly represent the people. He needs to follow this up NOW with giving his agenda and how it differs from a special interests agenda. It's not that hard -- he just has to ask the right question and then answer it.
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fromadam Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. running to be the outsider?
Edited on Thu Feb-12-04 04:22 PM by fromadam
Huh?

Clark was running to be the President. He happened to truly be an outsider to politics, simply by virtue of having chosen a totally different path of public service.

Dean is a politician. He's an "insider" in Vermont, even if he isn't a major "insider" in Washington. It's just a matter of degrees.

Whoever gets the presidency, will be working from within the system. If I'd had doubts about Clark's ability to do that, I wouldn't have been supporting him. If you have doubts about Deans' ability to do that, you might want to reconsider.

Grassroots? We had great grassroots with Clark. See how far it got us (and Dean) in NH, OK, SC?

The public's perception is what carries the day, unfortunately. Grassroots are awesome, but somehow somewhere, ya gotta catch a wave. Clark didn't, Dean hasn't so far, and it doesn't diminish either man one bit.

GW Bush's devisiveness and bad scheduling of state primaries have shaped this democratic primary far more than logic and the candidates biographies and resumes.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. Two things
1. The Movement is NOT going to end. There are efforts already started which will continue, whether Dean is in the White House or not, to ensure that. I know of at least 4. Some of us are hoping for some centralized control or perhaps focus is a better word, but the Movement will NOT end no matter what.

2. Clark is just taking his opportunism to its logical conclusion. No doubt Kerry offered him something, such as getting on the VP short list (which by now must include at least 10 people).
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candy331 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Thanks Eloriel I hope I hear more on
Edited on Thu Feb-12-04 05:01 PM by candy331
the movements because as much as I like Dean I realized he was a spokesperson and was not a messiah as some people did and some who mistakenly thought so and hated him for it.... I am about change for the good of the country and I know that it want just happen by itself. I am one who never thought that changing hats on the captain would stop a ship from sinking.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I don't feel the time is right to post much here on this board
But don't worry -- word will get out soon enough. There are thousands upon thousands of us who feel the same way about the Movement. You won't be left behind. ;-)
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-12-04 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. It is just beginning, Candy.
There will be room for all who want who want our country back. So many aspects to be ironed out, and so many thoughts to encompass.

What I vote in November will be my business, and I am not yet sure what that will be. That is my right as an American, and it is my right as a lifelong Democrat to demand a clear vision from my party.

I do not consider imperialism acceptable, so my husband and I are thinking of our future votes.

There will be movements arising, and no one really knows all the details yet.

Hang in there. Ok?
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