Lots to think about in this post today at Bootrib..."What are we trying to do?"

[madfloridian]

It is good summary of the stuff going at the various blogs as the blogosphere starts reexamining what they are about. A lot of this started when Atrios and Kos delinked a lot of people for reasons that never really made sense.

The author is a moderate person who weighs his words carefully. I don't always agree with his stances, but I highly respect his views. He really hits hard on the win at all costs mentality. He goes into why we need to examine the 90s to see where we are going to go.

What Are We Trying to Do?

Just a few pertinent clips. I think he is very right about some of the things he says about the Clinton policies that got us where we are today, perhaps not intentionally. Perhaps because backing off would have not been an option they could handle.

Now that the Democrats control Congress, we all want to see some progress on issues of concern to us, but we especially want to see progress on ending the war and checking the executive branch. And there is frustration that the Democrats are not more united and are not more effective. That's understandable.

...."But many of us have learned deeper lessons. It isn't enough to go back to Clinton's policies and Clinton's Democratic Party. If nothing else, Clinton's America carried the seeds for Bushism within it. We can't go back to Clintonism unless we also destroy the seeds of Bushism. And those seeds involve a number of things that blogs and blogging communities are designed to address. Number one on the list is the media. It was the rise of right-wing media, think-tanks, and the media consolidation in the 1990's that gave rise to Bushism. Blogs are a partial corrective for this. We provide a skeptical commentary on the media and reach an increasing number of Americans.

And some partial paragraph snippets:

The media is not the only culprit in the rise of Bushism. Another problem has been the unexamined assumptions of American foreign policy. And these assumptions were as prevalent in the Clinton White House as they are in the Bush White House. We need to reconsider our role in the world, especially in the Middle East.

And this portion of what we need to learn from Iraq:

Many Democrats are concerned that opposition to the Iraq War will lead to a collapse of support for a wider array of America's global roles and responsibilities. But a larger group of Democrats actually yearns for a reassessment of America's roles and responsibilities and wants to use the failure of the Iraq War as a stepping stone to that reassessment. Count me among this latter group.

This paragraph may anger some here, but there is a lot of truth in it. I see it in the way some of the leading Democrats are addressing the issue of Iraq too cautiously. Right or wrong...it is food for thought.

For example, Clinton's administration hyped the threat from Saddam Hussein because they needed to maintain support for the containment policy they inherited from the first Bush administration. The second Bush administration was then able to point to falsehoods told by Clinton to justify their own falsehoods. We can't break the cycle of disinformation until we realize that Clinton lied to us too.

That is painful to acknowledge, though. The day it hit us our neighbors were visiting. Iraq seemed to be in shambles. A neighbor said those in the WH had to know. It hit me like a ton of bricks. I think it is true. People in positions of great power have awesome responsibility to be open with the people.

[lyonn]

1. The comment of Clinton's enabling the bushies on Iraq:

My impression of Clinton's remarks about Iraq had to do with the fact that Saddam, in about 1998, made it impossible for the U.N. inspectors to properly make inspection according the the U.N. Resolution. It had been several years later when Clinton made his remarks about Saddam and Iraq. We did not know what he was up to after that period of time without inspectors. We had the North and South pretty covered but not Saddam's territory like Baghdad.

Edit: Do you really believe that Clinton was responsible for Any decision bush made after getting appointed?

Clinton had made nice all around the world. He was under serious investigation the whole time.

What did bush do when he became president? Was the first thing on his mind to make those pay for the bombing the Cole? He never mentioned it. Clinton was on his way out of office, was it his responsibility in his final days to start bombing the appropriate people? By then Afganistan was No. on the Clinton list and the intell people.

Come on, let's not blame Clinton for what bush did.

[madfloridian]

2. That's not what was said.

I won't argue if that is what you think I am saying. It does little good.

But we did have Baghdad covered, we were bombing them in 1998 with casualties. We were bombing Najaf as well, in 1999 I know for sure.

We had all of Iraq covered very well.

If we don't question things now, we will end up in another failed occupation, invasion, or whatever we call it. I have heard a few Democrats saying Bush needs their permission for Iran. But at the same time a lot of them, Blue Dogs and other centrists, are fighting Murtha's plan and trying to marginalize him.

Here is about bombing Baghdad in 98
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/meast/9812/17/iraq.strike.05/

Simple search terms find you a lot. I of course do not blame them for what Bush did, neither is that blog I quoted. But they could have said more to stop Iraq.

[KoKo]

3. Yes...simply said...."they could have done more to stop Iraq."

One has to pause and rewind and just look at those words. It's the truth of it...they could have done more...and that's not only the Clintons but the Dems who didn't stand by their fellow Dems who voted "NO" and argued for hours to EMPTY FLOORS on both the HOUSE AND SENATE!

Dem Hero's ....Those who VOTED NO ...AGAINST ALL ODDS..... it's all we could have asked. An honest debate and a discussion...but there were those with minds made up and those who had eyes focused on an election where they miscalculated what would happen with their vote given so carelessly.

[madfloridian]

4. And we will have to do more to stop that war now...or we will lose in 08

I really fear that.