For everyone moaning how Hillary is too far to the right of center

[mtnsnake]

Do you really think for a minute that whichever Dem gets the nod, even if it's not Hillary, that that person isn't going to move drastically to the right once the general election rolls around?

I don't care who it is, once they get past the primary and into the general election, they're ALL gonna become moderates, just like Hillary is acting now, maybe even more so than she. Hell, once he or she wins the Primary, they'll become very religious all of a sudden, too, never missing church and saying grace before every meal. Some of them will even don hunting outfits, while others will be sure to attend NASCAR races during the campaign. Oh, and whoever it is who gets the nod, they'll for sure turn into a tactical military expert on how to win the war in Iraq and protect us from them terrorists. Same sex marriage? Whoever gets the nod won't touch that issue during the general election.

You're only setting yourself up for a huge disappointment if you really think any of the candidates won't pander to the center or even to the right of center once they're past the primaries and into the general election. That's just the way it is.

What really counts, though, is how our candidate acts ONCE they're elected President. Every single one of them, no matter who it is who becomes our Democratic president, will then be able to shift back toward the left once they're in office, and that includes Hillary.

In the meantime, each one will do whatever it takes to win a general election, and we need to support whoever that Democrat is that gets the nod....and then hope they put on their real colors once they're in the White House.

[BobRossi]

1. She needs to move left to be right of center.

She is a DLC shill, nothing more.

[mtnsnake]

2. You're naive if you don't think any of them won't look the same once they get the nod

Once in the general election, they'll all seem that way to you. That's just reality.

[sandnsea]

3. Hillary won't 'shift back left'

She'll continue to triangulate, as the Clintons always do, and concede huge chunks of FDR progress. Don't forget, Bill was one of the first to talk about privatizing social security. This isn't about campaign strategies, it's about southern conservative DLC Dems. :puke:

[mtnsnake]

6. Yeah, that's why every neocon is losing sleep that a liberal like her will win

Only in your mind and a few others is Hillary some kind of a conservative nut.

[sandnsea]

9. Neocons calling centrists liberal

is an old strategy designed to muddy up the entire Democratic Party. I don't give anything any of them say any credit at all. I judge Hillary based on Democratic Party values, and she doesn't measure up.

[papau]

17. I just wish there were fewer GOP anti-Hillary themes being repeated as DUer's

observations.

Many folks that have fought the GOP for a long time are aware that there is just about zero basis for each and everyone of the GOP descriptions of Hillary and her actions - indeed the GOP is contradictory.

But they get repeated on DU as if they were obvious truth.

Based on polls the general public knows more about history and politics than many a DUer.

I agree -judge Hillary based on Democratic Party values, and if she doesn't measure up support someone else.

Every General Election is a choice of the least evil - and at this point Hillary wins my vote as the least evil versus any of the GOP that are running.

If she does not get the nomination so what. Indeed I am judging folks on their health plan - and so far Edwards is the only person to have a passable by Congress approach that gets us to single payer universal - albeit by the backdoor and it will take 20 years. But the others are not even in the game - as yet.

There is a lot of time and speeches and issue papers until the NH primary.

[sandnsea]

19. The Clintons are bad for the party

They are at the root of everything in the Democratic Party that we need to take our country away from. We need HUGE change. We need someone to pull back the curtains and expose the poverty, the addiction, the sickness, the anxiety, the struggle. The upper 10% 'middle class' don't need any help. We need someone who represents the rest of the country and that is just not the Clintons. It has nothing to do with GOP talking points, it has to do with who they are. She wants to be President for herself, not what she can do for the country or the world.

[papau]

23. the people will not allow huge change - and Congress will not pass huge

change.

Since 1973 the bottom 40% have made economic progress ONLY under Clinton - and the bottom 90% did better under Clinton than under any prior or later President.

The assertions on this board are a mix of GOP talking points and some rants by those impatient with the pace of change folks like our socialist friends. The latter I understand and sympathize with - the former is sad.

[Joe Chi Minh]

30. In real terms, most Americans have ben earning less and less - including under

Bill Clinton.

And you could not be more grievously mistaken: people are insisting on huge change. It's why the Beltway people on both sides want to keep the fantasy voting-machines. The American people voted in such numbers for John Kerry because he promised Americans a New Deal. You know, the reason the Republicans of Roosevelt's day accused him of being a Communist!

The Gatt Agreement Bill Clinton signed up the US to, globalisation, trickle-down, all these these things are Milton Friedman-type, right-wing economic policies and BS.

[Poiuyt]

4. They don't ALL become moderates

Bush moved even further into the right fringe

[skipos]

8. Remember all that "compassionate conservative"

and "working with Dems in TX" bs?

He definitely tried to sell himself as a moderate after the primaries. Cheney gave him cred with the rightwing nutjobs.

[iamjoy]

5. Well Said

I'm no fan of Hillary, but neither am I niave. I like John Edwards, but I know he is very shrewd and his tone and message will change if he gets the nomination. The only candidate I don't see jockeying is Dennis Kucinich, and even he flipped on abortion shortly before the 2004 campaign. Anyway, Kucinich doesn't really stand much of a chance too bad he doesn't have Edwards' charisma.

It is the same on the Republican side, they are all running to the right now and kissing up to the Falwell and Robertson types. Once they get the nomination, they will play like moderates. And some voters may be fooled by it. If elected (or selected) they will continue the policies of Dubya - or worse.

[zulchzulu]

7. The way the GOP field of candidates looks like...no need to go right

They will fill the void of any right winger...but the greatest mobilizing force for the right will be if there is someone they've been wanting to demonize for years in the mix.

[papau]

28. GOP maxed out their GOTV against Kerry because they've wanted to demonize him for years? eh? They

will vote - and be motivated to vote - against any Dem.

[Smarmie Doofus]

10. Well,why bother trying to distinguish among them at all? nt

[AtomicKitten]

11. Of course that's how it goes.

When a candidate runs for office, they are running to represent all Americans in the general election and that means hanging in the center quite a bit to cast a wider net. It's Politics 101. And some folks at DU won't muster the grace to support the general election candidate, but instead will ridicule them for what they would find perfectly okay if their candidate did it.

Lest we forget:

[mtnsnake]

13. !@

Thanks for the pics. LOL!

:toast:

[joshcryer]

12. Yep, the political game is charming isn't it?

So charming.

[mtnsnake]

15. You said it, man.

It's all a big game. Once the general election rolls around...er circus, I should say, it's hard to distinguish between illusion and reality. Only until they're done playing, do we get any sense of reality.

[joshcryer]

27. People say there's no difference between Dems and Repubs.

But there is. And that difference is we have a heck of a lot better chances of inacting progressive change with Democrats than we do Republicans. In the end, politically, yes, they are very very similar. In the end they use the same words, and have the same POVs. But that doesn't mean that they're not different. It just means they're playing the eternal game of politics.

[k_jerome]

14. whoever says that doesn't know jack. nt.

[Captain Hilts]

16. Franklin Roosevelt did. nt

[PassingFair]

18. Any more right and she'll be clearing brush in Crawford.

Or nuking Iran.

[leftstreet]

20. She seems to be popular among those who'd like to purge voters

"Centrist" and "moderate" basically means fewer voters at the polls.

Most Americans lean toward economic populism, regardless of their religious views. That's why half the eligible voters don't vote.

I don't see much difference between her and the leading Repubs, so I'm assuming her War Chest (and back room deals) will guarantee her appointment.

Whatever.

[papau]

24. ?? A socialist brings out the voyers -eh? Or is it Clinton in not a populist

despite her lifetime record om populist causes?

What differences from leading GOPers do you want- and don't find in Clinton positions and likely future actions? And which of the others that are running do you see as supporting your positions better.

Indeed the above is a political discussion we should have on DU.

Repeating FreeRepublic dirt and slogans and lies against our candidates is both stupid and childish - but that is just my opinion.

[leftstreet]

34. lol It's startin' early

"Repeating FreeRepublic dirt and slogans and lies..." blah, blah, blah

:eyes:

[orleans]

21. if hillary wins will bill take her senate seat? n/t

[papau]

25. I doubt it - although one former Pres went back to Congress so I guess it

could happen.

[liberal hypnotist]

38. He's the bag man now.

I doubt it. The pickins' are too good. After all, he's like a brother to Baby George.

[Greyhound]

22. Yes, by all means, keep playing the same losing strategy

and keep getting the same results. Maybe Ross Perot will run again.

In a race between two republicans a republican is sure to win. Feh.

[papau]

26. What policy position makes one a real Dem? n/t

n/t

[Greyhound]

36. As far as I know, registering as a Democrat is the only criteria.

Doing so and then working against the principles of the Party has been a time honored tradition, but it's still slimy and wrong.

[MadHound]

29. LOL, no, I don't think that all the candidates will go over to the right

I knew Kucinich won't, why should he? His leftist, anti-war stance has been the most honest, and most true stance out there. Nor do I think that Obama will swing right. Don't try smearing all candidates with blanket statements about what they'll do. All it does is show how desperate Hillary supporters are.

[blm]

31. I know EXACTLY what she'll do as president - CLOSE THE BOOKS for Bush2

the way Clinton1 closed the books on Bush1's crimes office.

[AtomicKitten]

32. and I knew EXACTLY what YOU would say

... this same tired, unsubstantiated, tinfoil hat accusation heard from you at DU over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. I hope you are paid per accusation because you should be able to retire soon. Good luck on your campaign.

[PhilipShore]

33. And thou shalt not utter the word "liberal" to the plutocratic media gods

[Tellurian]

35. Denny Crane's famous quote..nm

[liberal hypnotist]

37. Good analysis.

Your right. We must support the Dem. nominee. In the meantime, each candidate needs to have their feet held to the fire. Just because we question Queen hillary doesn't mean we agree with her corporate pandering or right of center swing but, we are better off with a Dem than a repuke. Wouldn't just some plain old truth be nice instead of all their NLP spin tricks.

[burythehatchet]

39. Hillary will be irrelevant on election day

cuz she won't be anywhere near the ticket.