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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:20 PM
Original message
I have no clue who I will support in the primaries
My first and second choice are apparently not going to run (Gore and Dean respectively). I have serious doubts about Obama in the experience department. I have serious doubts about Clinton due to the fact she would have a very tough general election. Edwards was poor on gay rights while a Senator. Clark would be great except he hasn't been elected to any office. In short, I have no idea. Given my record of supporting losers you might want to pay me to support a candidate you don't like. While still early, I would love to hear candidate supporters give me three positive reasons to vote for your candidate. No negatives about other candidates. Just positive about yours.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Don't worry too much about the experience thing with Obama
By the time the election rolls around, everyone will have him painted as such a strong leader that he'll SEEM more experienced than he already is. Plus, he does have more experience than a lot of people realize.

3 reasons to vote for Obama:

1- He's as intelligent as he is inspirational, and he's got CHARISMA. His outstanding charisma will make up for any perceived lack of experience.

2- He's got broad appeal.

3- He's probably the best bet if you want to see someone heal the country and re-unite it.

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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. My fear about inexperience is two fold
One, that it will make it harder to elect him. Two, it will impact his ability to govern if he is elected. We have just had an incompetent and lazy president. I certainly don't think Obama is either of those, but his inexperience does trouble me, as it does with Edwards in all honesty.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. As far as the office of President, I think leadership is more important than experience.
and Obama is loaded with leadership qualities. I'm not trying to diminish the importance of leadership, but if so many people picked an ignorant bum like Bush over an experienced and proven politician like Kerry, then what's that tell you?
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
27. I agree, I think the president is more about personality then experience.
Edited on Sat Dec-30-06 01:25 PM by Odin2005
IMO the best presidents have what psycologists call ENTP, ESTP, or ENTJ personality types.

* is supposedly a ISFJ
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Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
30. How do you know he has leadership qualities
If he has no experience sucessfully leading anything?

And yeah, I know... Obama has led a few small organizations (his senate staff, for instance) for relatively short periods of time and appears to do very well. But it's many more levels of magnitude when you start talking about running the entire federal government.

Ya see, the President of the United States in in charge of the largest bureaucracy in the world. He appoints the people who make it work (or don't), he is responsible to see that they do their jobs, he sets their priorities, he holds their feet to the proverbial fire to make sure they produce results. If any one of them fails, he fails. And all the citizens of this country suffer for it. Things like Katrina happen. And it doesn't matter whether he's an asshole like Bush or a real nice, kind, caring guy like Obama almost certainly is. It's about competence and making things happen on a larger scale than most people can even imagine. Nice guys fail as often as assholes.

No one who hasn't been president has the exact experience it takes to be president. But governors come close. Commanders of large armies come close. Heads of other large executive branch bureaucracies come close. And while I hate to admit it, CEOs of extremely large corporations come close.

No one else comes close. Of course, some of them can learn it on the job, but first they have to convince the populace that they deserve a chance to learn, and historically very few have been able to.
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Edwards: Vision, inspiration, and a compelling story.
Edwards has already laid out his five priorities to change America: Guaranteeing health care for every single American, strengthening our middle class and ending the shame of poverty, leading the fight against global warming, and getting America and the world to break our addiction to oil.

He also has a great stump speech and the real policy backing behind it; his campaign announcement in the Lower Ninth Ward lays out his vision of ending poverty (by 2030 under Edwards' plan) and making "the Two Americas" one.

He also has a compelling story to tell: he grew up in a mill town to working-class people and made his fortune helping people against huge companies that harmed him. (Read Edwards' book Four Trials for more on this.) We also know that the death of his son Wade influenced his decision to go into politics and defeat incumbent Republican Senator and far-righist Lauch Faircloth.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. You hit all the things I like about Edwards
I just would love to see him be more experienced and have had a better record on gay rights.
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PBass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Clark: Military credibility, charisma,
somebody give me a third reason for Clark.

I think it would be helpful to have a general in the White House, what with the current fiasco we have in Iraq. That he doesn't seem like a hawkish bastard is reassuring, because I don't ordinarily assume that a general should be president
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Honesty, straightforwardness and
a great wife.
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Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #5
31. How about "scary smart" and balls the size of basketballs
Edited on Sun Dec-31-06 12:07 AM by Jai4WKC08
Ok, so maybe not that big. But I sure haven't met many people with more raw courage, both physical and moral, than Clark. And damn few with more intelligence, knowledge, and the ability acquire and process more. So much that it may actually be a disadvantage in getting elected. Americans seem to be afraid of too much intelligence.

He also works harder than any person ought to.
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. I still love Dean, but if Gore won't run, I'll support Edwards for all the above reasons.
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. I'm with you--not committed to anyone right now
My top choice is Al Gore--The man who in my opinion do the best job as president--not just win the election. I'm assuming two things one, that he runs and two, that he doesn't revert into "woodman" form.

If Gore does not run then I'm looking at these other guys in no particular order.

Barak Obama--Lacks experience but had the good judgement to oppose the Iraq war from the getgo.

Wes Clark--I wasn't crazy about him in 04 but let's see how well he does this time--assuming he runs of course. Knows foreign and military policy hands down.

Dennis Kucinich--no chance whatsoever but what the hell. Sorry Dennis but if it gets down to Hillary or another pro-war candidate vs someone who has taken an antiwar position even if they voted for the IWR I'll probably dump you.

John Edwards--voted wrong on the war but right on the economy and on workers issues.

Bill Richardson--Nice range of experience but where does he stand on the issues? I'll be interested in hearing more from him.

John Kerry--I like the guy but fear it's just not going to happen this time. He was my original favorite in 04 until I caught Howard Dean in a long interview and was impressed.

As for the rest I could probably settle for Biden if the choice was him or Clinton. I'm opposed to Clinton but should she win I'll vote for herin the general election because no doubt the Republican will be far worse.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
8. Why don't we focus on the Congress that is seating next week?
There is an error you make in boxing called looking past this opponent and focusing on the next fight.

We can not miss this chance to force this congress to pass paper ballots and random audits.

We can not miss this chance to force this congress to raise the minimum wage and make it a living wage.

We can not miss this chance to force this congress to pass universal health care.

We can not miss this chance to force this congress repeal all the fascist laws forced thru by the fascists in the last 12 years.

We can not miss this chance to force this congress renegotiate all the flat earth faux "Free Trade" deals and demand that all trade deals recognize worker and environmental rights.

We can not miss this chance to force this congress to begin the immediate withdrawal of the occupation forces in Iraq.

We can not miss this chance to force this congress to cut dramatically the star wars and all the gifts to the military industrial complex; and the tax breaks and incentives to the oil and gas industry, and use those funds to begin harvesting renewable energy and build infrastructure- creating many well paying jobs for American Citizens.

We can not miss this chance to force this congress to create public financing of elections and forbid parasitic corporations from interfering in our elections.

Then we can worry about the next contest.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Feel free to start a thread on that if this bothers you
Seriously, you should, because I think the body of your post is really good.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. Just one
He's still the only one who is totally prepared to fix every problem facing us.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. who?
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Guess
:hi:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. You're joking right?
You need to ask? Kerry of course. :)

I will not fight candidates with you this primary. Even if you choose Hillary. :rofl:
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. You could have changed
I think you will soon be in the same position as I in that I don't think Kerry is going to run. I am less sure he isn't going to run than I am about Gore and Dean but I do think he is going to sit this one out.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. You might be right
I'm not 100% that Kerry will run either. The smears are just endless and even more mindless than they were in 2004. But if he doesn't, and Clark doesn't, then I'm with Obama. If we're gonna run an image campaign, may as well get the candidate that's just dripping with charm and looks. He's much more comfortable in his skin than Edwards, his Monday Night Football schtick was just priceless.

I watched An Inconvenient Truth last night. If we could have that Al Gore, 100% of the time, he'd win hands down. That was a terrific film and Gore struck just the right tone in it. But having watched it, I do think this is his passion. I think he'd have to be pretty sure he'd actually become President because he risks all the credibility he's gained over the last years with another run. He could go down in history as the man who saved the planet, which could ultimately be more important than being just another President.

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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. Myself, I'm on the fence also.
Although I have gotten into some heated debates in some threads pro and con about candidates :evilgrin: I just want to keep the debate going for awhile longer.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
17. Well, I don't have a clue either.
I'm in California, so unless it's a real horserace it won't matter anyway (unless I get so excited about a candidate I do other things besides vote to support them, as I did for Clark in 04').

I very enthusiastically supported Clark in 04', and believe he would have been president now if he had been nominated. However, I don't know if Clark will be running this time around, so I look at the pluses and minuses of each candidate.

If not Clark, I'm most impressed with Gore. If not Gore, then Obama. That said, I believe while both Gore and Obama have strengths, I am concerned about their ability to win the general election against a McCain, etc.

So, we'll have to just wait and see. It should be interesting to see how each of the candidates presents themselves.
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brer cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
19. Good for you! I'm so tired of the negative threads here...
We need to be civil and discuss without rancor the choices that we have.
I'm very open to debate, but my early choice is Gen. Clark, first and foremost because of Iraq. He has the best capability imho of any to take over the mess * is going to leave behind: he's knowledgeable about foreign affairs and diplomacy; he cares about our military and is probably the only one who can mend it; he cares about our veterans, and can make sure their needs are addressed. He seems very astute with the economic issues, and he seems to really care about the suffering middle class and poor.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:14 PM
Response to Original message
20. Kerry -- no one else compares
1. He'll get our troops out of Iraq. The passion is there -- he wants them out while doing everything in his power with diplomacy to lessen the chaos in Iraq and the region. He also has a full vision of foreign policy which includes doing tireless diplomacy and restore our moral authority and reputation in the world. His call for Energy Independence is not just to counteract global warming, but for national security reasons -- that our gluttony for oil which funds despotic regimes and terrorist organizations will be phased out. He's a son of a diplomat -- it's in his blood to undo the damage Bush has done.

2. His past Boy Scout record. We're talking honesty and integrity throughout his career. Anti-war protester, prosecutor in Cambridge, Lt. gov., senator. Don't forget Iran/Contra, BCCI, CIA drugrunning -- he investigated them all, mostly without backing from his own party. He also voted against DOMA because he saw it for what it was -- a hate law against gays.

3. His health plan -- universal healthcare -- his plan uses the existing federal employee health program, instead of reinventing the wheel (a major flaw with Hillarycare).

Only 3 reasons? I could go on and on. He's the only commander in chief that I see.
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Meshuga Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I like Kerry
I hope he runs! He'd be a great president. :thumbsup:
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. I don't see Kerry getting the indies and moderates.
I think in the vast sea of independent america Kerry is done. However, Edwards, obama and Condi all seem to be well liked.
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greendog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
23. I'm not going to worry about it...for a while.
I'll probably be sending a few bucks to candidates willing to talk about the class war. And I'll certainly not support anyone who's weak on that issue.

Montana's primary is the last in the nation (someone has to be last :eyes: ) so, in a way, it really doesn't matter who I like.



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rep the dems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
24. Me neither. Although come to think of it, I don't think I'll be able to
vote in the primary. Damn.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
25. I'm trying to decide between Gore (if he runs) Edwards and Obama
I actually like the fact that Obama and Edwards haven't been in the Senate that long, they aren't tainted by long records filled with tons of poison pills. They also haven't been in DC long enough to ger infected with "Washington insider-ness."
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
26. Give me another 12 months, and then you're on! n/t
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Redneck Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
28. It's pretty early yet
I'm all over Gore if he gets in but he keeps saying no, so we'll see.

Given that no one, and I mean no one, that I've ever supported in the primaries has gone on to win the nomination you can probably figure out who is not going to win based on my choice.

Right now I'm ABH.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
32. Supporting Kucinich means support a quick exit from Iraq...
...and using hand-counted paper ballots for the 2008 presidential race.

Support Kucinich even if you don't want him as the nominee.
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No Exit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
33. All I want is someone who will WIN!
Obama, Clinton, Edwards, Clark, Kucinich, I will vote for any of them!

I think GORE would be our version of "shock and awe", but it doesn't appear he wants to run.

I just DON'T want any more repukelicans in public office!

This comes from someone who supported repukelicans from the time I turned 18, all the way to late 2002--early 2003. And yes, it was the war. But every day I find more reasons to wish repukelicans GONE FOREVER.
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