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I think Barack Obama is going to win the Presidency in 2008 with relative ease

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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 04:33 PM
Original message
I think Barack Obama is going to win the Presidency in 2008 with relative ease
if he gets through the Democratic Primaries, which I imagine he will.

In 2008 the country is going to be looking for a healer, just like it was after the Nixon days.

I think Obama will be looked upon by voters as the candidate who can best heal and re-unite this divided country of ours, the country that Bush has torn apart with his madness and corruption. Obama has that rare ability of speaking like a healer, not a divider, and this country needs a healer more-so now than in any other time since the days of Vietnam and Richard Nixon.

My only question is, who will he choose to be his running mate? I think General Clark would be the perfect complement to him, as Clark will add years of wisdom and he'll be a calming effect for anyone worried about security issues.

2008 is going to be much about healing. Obama fits that bill perfectly, and that's one of the reasons why so many Americans are falling in love with him already.
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Ninja Jordan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. I wish I could be as optimistic as you
But I still feel that his race, name, and background will work against him. Edwards, as it stands now, is still the best candidate that Democrats could put forth in 2008. Things may change, though. I'd be happy with any Democratic candidate not named Hillary.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. I think the country is fed up to its ears with all the divisive crap Bush created
and will be more than ready to look to a healer when 2008 rolls around. Obama is very inspiring in that respect.
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Ninja Jordan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I agree, but it still won't stop the GOP from dirty tricks re: Obama's name etc.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. The "name" stuff will be old news by then. MSM is already taking care of that.
Obama is the type of candidate that's going to arrouse curiosity in people who don't know him but who have heard various things and rumors about him among all the hype. Once anyone, Republican or not, hears him speak, they'll realize very quickly that there is nothing to worry about in his name.

There are going to be GOP dirty tricks no matter who runs, and I have confidence that Obama will handle that as well or better than anyone when the time comes.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
46. Barack Obama: can you imagine the smear crap Limbaugh/Hannity will dream up?!!!
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #46
53. Who cares what they dream up?
Are we supposed to determine our candidates by who will escape criticism from nutcases?
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. I definitely can see that.
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lisa58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 04:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. I would like to see Obama run because...
...I think he will inspire and bring out new voters - people who may have never seen a reason to vote before. None of the already declared, or we believe will declare, a run for the presidency will have that effect. New voters, means more voters - and that is only a good thing.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Do you have the stats of voter turnout from the last 4 or 5 elections so we can compare?
That could be an interesting measure.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
24. That plus I think most undecideds will opt for him after what we've been though
with 8 years of near tyranny.
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. Although I am supporting Wes Clark, Obama is a terrific guy
and I hope that he doesn't shy away from entering the race. That said, I'm solidly for Wes.
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progdonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. personal anecdote that you're sure to love...
My best friend is a small-town Texas Republican girl who still voted red in the past elections (her area's so red that her vote doesn't really matter--red or blue--or at least isn't worth causing problems in our friendship by getting on her a lot to vote blue; were she here in Virginia with me, where each vote really can make the difference--finally!--I'd be on her about it more).

Anyway, what did she get me for Christmas? "The Audacity of Hope." In the Christmas note she said she bought herself a copy at the same time and has already started reading it. When I chatted with her on the day after Christmas (which is also her birthday), we had the following exchange:

Me: slightly off-topic: should I take the fact that you're reading (and bought me) a book that's basically campaign literature for a Democratic presidential candidate as a hint that you might be considering going blue in '08... (you'd basically be giving me a gift on your birthday instead of the other way around if the answer's yes... ;-) )
Her: haha, I like Barack Obama as a person. Some of the things he mentions in the book I don't agree with but I like his principle
Her: and he thinks things through
Her: depending on who he would be running against I'd seriously consider him thus far
Her: I'm not a party stickler <she's just only ever voted for Republicans, but I digress...>
Her: its all about the person
Me if I were in Texas I'd be giving you a big bear hug right about now... O8)
Her: hahaha
Her: its a good book


So, if Obama could seriously have her vote, he's as good as gold. We'll never get the idiot fundie RW voters, so sucking up to them is pointless, but as this exchange shows, there's at least one Republican in Texas who will vote for a Dem with whom she disagrees politically if she feels his positions are based on principle.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Good stuff
I, too, have heard several people who I know, people who I never would've thought would say anything nice about a Democrat, say they'd be fine with Obama if he became President.

Obama just has a way of coming off as sincere and inspirational at the same time, all bottled in a healing manner. The USA needs someone heal it and to re-unite it again. I can't think of any other candidate who be more convincing when it comes to that.
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Great story - thanks for sharing it.
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China_cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. I agree with you.
I feel that people like me are going to totally reject ANYONE who has run before in any capacity. That's on both sides of the aisle. I think people are just fed up with what we know and feel that a fresh approach is the only thing that makes sense.

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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
10. It won't be with ease, but it's possible
I see some Carter/'76 parallels. Of course, Jimmy would never lie to us, so he was perceived as being too weak, which could well be the predicament of an Obama presidency. We're good for a conscientious choice every 30 years or so. But it would be one term and done; an unserious and vicious nation wouldn't have it otherwise.
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. One of Obama's strengths IS his strength - he never comes off as weak or wimpy
He's soft-spoken, but he's tough and has a steely way about him that commands respect. For lack of a better way to describe it, he's very savvy, smooth and sophisticated, but he also has plenty of "street" in him.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. In other words
he's got a winning combination that covers most aspects of the personality. He should make a heck of a candidate.

Other than experience, I don't know of any weak points in this guy. Combining his charisma and leadership qualities with everything you said will more than make up for his perceived shortcoming in the experience dept.
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PresidentObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. Relative ease?
Isn't that pushing it? I know a lot of us Democrats talk about how great he is, and the media seems to like him. But I could go into the streets of America right now, and a lot of people wouldn't know who he is. Once the crap comes flying out about his middle name, and the backwards GOP trys to play up the race card like in the Harold Ford race....It'll get tougher for him. And also questions about his experience, which even a lot of Democrats who like him question.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. haha, I almost put "with ease" but changed it to "relative ease"
By relative ease, I'm not saying a landslide or anything but everything's lining up for us Democrats in 2008, as long as we sport a candidate like Obama, who's as inspirational as he is smart. Let's face it, if ever we were to have "relative ease" winning a presidency, it should be in 2008...as long as we don't blow it by doing anything stupid. Normally, after 8 years of one party rule, the country shifts gears and goes to the other party anyway. In this case, people will be CRYING for change...after 8 long years of the most corrupt mother fucker in history in the WH. Odama will connect, and when the dust settles, he'll have the country convinced he's the person who can heal and re-unite it, I believe.
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BluegrassDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
13. I think Obama will win too
He's the perfect anti-Bush. With him being president, America's credibility and stature will skyrocket overnight! Because of Obama's background and ancestry, he'll be able to go to the Middle East and talk some sense into some of the people over there.
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nevergiveup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:01 PM
Response to Original message
14. I think the country is ready
for someone like Obama. I am waiting to see how he reacts and responds to all the mud the Democrats and Republicans and media throw at him. My feelings are that he has the temperament to handle it as well as anyone if not better. I do not think that race will be as big an issue as many here think. Genuine racists will vote against him but they vote Republican regardless. I also agree that Clark would be the perfect running mate. This would be a powerful ticket.
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. And if it's not ready yet, what better way to get it ready than for a Black candidate to run?
And if he doesn't win this time, he or another Black candidate can run again - and again - and again until America is so used to the concept that it will no longer be a novelty. Eventually, a Black person will be elected president. But the ONLY way that is going to happen is for viable Black candidates to run. Gone is the day where we're going to sit on the sidelines "waiting our turn" until our White friends give us the word that America is ready for us now.
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hijinx87 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
18. first of all, I don't think anyone will win anything with "relative ease".

and I don't think obama will even win the nomination
with "relative ease". if he wins it at all.

it will be a dogfight in the primaries, and a MASSIVE
dogfight in the general election.

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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. I agree - this race won't be easy for ANYONE
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. By relative ease, I don't mean it will be simple, but easier than other elections to win.
Edited on Fri Dec-29-06 07:05 PM by mtnsnake
Everything should line up nicely for us Democrats after 8 miserable years of Bush.
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hijinx87 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. naive and ultimately dangerous, I think

I say we buckle up for all four quarters.

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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
20. IMO, Gen. Clark is a must on any Dem ticket. (eom)
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-29-06 07:04 PM
Response to Original message
23. Maybe. This is certainly one of the more interesting Obama threads.
and it's food for thought.

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PresidentObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
28. I'll support Obama IF he wins the nomination...
But will he with relative ease? No. Will he win with ease? No.

I like Barack Obama. He's a great Senator, and would be a fine President. But once the media starts hitting home his experience, and the RW starts the racist Harold Ford B.S. and the crap about his middle name....then the slime will start being chucked at Obama left and right.

It's not fair, nor is it right. But Obama won't win with ease. He may be able to win, thats debateable. But NOT with ease.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
29. Well that is certainly possible...
Edited on Sat Dec-30-06 01:23 PM by SaveElmer
The man does have the It factor going for him...

But it is a long time between now and election time....he could just as easily flounder under the pressure of a national campaign...

Having said that, I do hope he runs. Hillary is my candidate, but having a strong field is a good thing not a bad one...

Looking at our line up comapred to the enemy, it is no contest in my book...

Obama, Clinton, Edwards, Dodd, Biden, Vilsack, maybe Richardson...all would be very good candidates in my opinion

The enemy

Brownback, McCain, Guiliani, Gilmore...

McCain is getting more tainted by the day with his continued cheerleading of the Iraq war, no way the Republicans nominate a pro-choice adulterer...

Brownback is a joke, and Gilmore makes Brownback look serious


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PresidentObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. No doubt, he has the 'it' factor.
And personally, I like Obama a lot.

Hopefully he runs, because the more great candidates the better.

But I don't know I can get over the experience factor. Same thing with Edwards. I like Edwards, and while Kerry was candidate--I really got into the things Edwards was speaking about. But in this serious times with us at war in Iraq, we need experience and tested leadership.

And thats why I won't support Obama unless he gets the nomination. And I fear that the RW is already cooking up some slime for Senator Obama, which makes me sick.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. The way I see it...
The more Dems declaring the better.
A Conga Line of Dems, each and every one of them drawing the masses to our Line in the Sand.

When the ultimate nominee is chosen, they will, like a well oiled machine, shift their
allegiances to the chosen Demo ticket. And in unison, thwart the onslaught of Repuglian tricks
we know to be forthcoming to our chosen nominee.

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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
31. LOL! Not a fucking chance! I'm ultra liberal and I won't vote for him.
Edited on Sat Dec-30-06 03:53 PM by GreenTea
:rofl:

I will never vote for a Dem moderate again...fuck Obama!

I'd probably vote for a Edwards - Kucinich ticket.

Or I'll vote Green as I did for the first time for three offices in CA this past election instead of moderate Dem's like Feinstein....I've voted 100% democratic my whole life till this year and I will probably vote Green in 2008. I won't be pushed and forced to vote for a moderate as in the past ever again... and I know many who feel as I do...I don't give a fuck if a republican wins the presidency in 2008...let them deal with Bush's economy, they'll be a one-termer anyway, whoever gets elected inheriting Bush ten trillion dollar deficit...I just want a Dem majority in the Senate and House...they'll stop any repug prez trying to appoint fascist court nominees.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. I appreciate your passion. But...Obama's no moderate.
Otherwise, nice rant.

Cheers!
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. You're ultra something, but it sure ain't liberal
LMFAO
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #31
42. Um... Edwards is a DLCer.
Are you sure about that vote?

Yes, I know Edwards isn't DLC now. But that's only because he doesn't hold an elected office - which is one of the requirements for DLC membership.

He was, however, a huge spokesman for that wing of the party when he was a senator.

I think Obama's a tad more liberal, but that's not saying much.
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tinfoilinfor2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 04:17 PM
Response to Original message
32. I attended a convention where Obama was a speaker last year.
He was smart, but not the smartest of the speakers. He was handsome, but not the handsomest. He was electrifying, but not the most electrifying. etc. etc. I think he has as much of a chance as any other exceptional and qualified candidate, but I sure don't see it being done with any sort of ease.
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jab105 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
33. I think Obama is going to be **the one**
Was talking to my mother, who is the reddest of red voters...republican all the way...and she even said that she has to admit that she would consider voting for Obama...I nearly fell out of my chair!! If my mother would consider Obama (and said repeatedly how much she liked him)...then he is **the one**!
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 05:49 PM
Response to Original message
37. True story from an Illinois resident
When Obama was running for Senator, I started looking at the candidates about 8 months out from the election to see whose campaign I would like to volunteer/donate time and $$ etc.

So when I discover Obama, I am pretty excited. I like the guy's record and after meeting him at a campaign stop in Chicago, I like him even more. So I contact his campaign office to host a house party in Wheaton. Yes, Wheaton - the reddest town in the reddest county in all of Illinois (Dupage). Wheaton is so red that every single rethug Presidential candidate comes to Wheaton to walk in our fourth of July parade....

Anyway, so 8 months out from the election the campaign office tells me that they are already sure they are in great shape in Wheaton and they don't need a house party there!!! He was red hot in that election, even with the most solid rethugs inthe US. He's the real deal that seems to be able to work the entire political spectrum easily.

Unfortunately he'll never win the truly racist but his campaign should be able to inspire record #'s of black voters, enough to overcome the bigot factor.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #37
47. But the Republican nominee in 2008 will be McCain...
...or someone else with broader appeal than Alan Keyes.
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #47
54. Your point being . . .?
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #47
59. Obama destroyed Jack Ryan's political career with black ops
(so "naive" - cough) and laughed all the way to the Senate after Keyes stepped in at the eleventh hour. Obama was also running during the height of the Illinois GOP meltdown over George Ryan. This is Illinois politics and Obama isn't some kind of ingenue if he's made it this far and walked through that minefield unscathed.

Regardless, Jack Ryan was running behind Obama when he imploded notwithstanding Ryan's own "broader appeal" to hardcore rethug voters such as those in Wheaton. Jack Ryan is handsome, moderate, an excellent speaker and debater... he should have been leading Obama in a cakewalk where I live, and he wasn't. I'm sure McCain would and will do a lot better in Wheaton than Keyes but Obama's captured a lot of fancy here and if it's possible here, then watch out.
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
38. Excellent assessment
I agree that Clark would complement the ticket perfectly. If that doesn't happen, Obama will definitely need to choose someone with a strong foreign policy record.

Incidentally, when I watched Edwards' speech in the Lower Ninth, I got the distinct impression that he's picked up on what makes Obama so popular among voters. Edwards has toned the divisive 'Two Americas' rhetoric down and instead, is focusing more on hope and unity. I suspect other candidates will try to do the same, but unfortunately for them, they won't be able to move people the way Obama does.
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fuzzyball Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
39. Obama will fade quickly during nomination process
Edited on Sat Dec-30-06 08:33 PM by fuzzyball
due to the smoothness and handsome face of
John Edwards, honed by years of experience as a WINNING trial lawyer,
depth of knowledge and physical stature of John Kerry,
foreign policy experience and charisma of Wes Clark,
and the impeccable speech delivery of Ivy school lawyer Hillary.

I am afraid people will quickly realize there is much emptiness
of depth beyond his eloquent rhetoric.
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Tactical Progressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
40. Obama is shallow
Edited on Sat Dec-30-06 09:13 PM by Tactical Progressive
Mouthing platitudes which sound good and mean little. Like GWB in 2000, he's a uniter not a divider. He'll listen to everyone before coming to a decision. Blah blah blah.

I couldn't be less impressed.

I also like him. I think with ten to fifteen years of experience - in the Senate AND an executive position like Governor or a Secretary of HHS or some such - he'll be ready. I'll support him and vote for him without question when he's ready.

But now? You've got to be kidding. He has nothing but unformed charisma and untested mettle.

You people are letting Bill Clinton's charisma blind you. Big Dog wasn't a good President because he has charisma; he has everything else too. The last thing this country needs is a charismatic empty suit. The last thing that Progressives need is a charismatic empty suit representing us. The last thing Obama needs is to be elected President before he's even vaguely close to being ready.

Fortunately, I don't think he's as dumb as his charisma-blinded advocates. He's smart enough to know that running now is a bad idea from alot of angles, not the least of which is going to be the mess that has to get cleaned up. A mess he isn't even willing to talk about or think about in more than shallow, feel-good language. I'm confident he either won't run or will run just far enough to get his name in the mix so that when he is ready to run for real, he'll have a name recognition head start. I just hope Democrats aren't dumb enough to take his introduction and turn it into a major governance misstep.

Hillary is the perfect candidate right now. The realization of that caught me by surprise after Kerry "lost". At that point I was looking four years ahead and came up with a Gore/Clark ticket, which I promoted here. I love just about everything about both men. I figured with Gore's political experience and name recognition at the top of the ticket, and Clark's military-diplomatic experience alongside, it was the perfect combination for these times. But rather quickly, like an epiphany, I realized that it is Hillary's time right on the numbers. We'll be getting out of the war in two years, for one thing.

But there is alot more to it than that. She's far more electable than anyone here realizes. She's more progressive than anyone even begins to understand. She's smart, she's tough as nails, amazingly cool under pressure, and she knows how to work with other people to get things done. She'll get women to vote who wouldn't otherwise. And another thing: Bill's election put the nail in the coffin of the Reagan-Bush Cold-War generation and all of its failures. Through treachery and ugliness they ressurected themselves in the guise of Bush and Cheney, two monsters if ever there were any, bringing the worst depravities of that generation back to life like vampires. It is so appropriate that Hillary Clinton be the one to nail, bolt, weld and finally entomb these monsters for good. Let's see them try to impeach that.

It's going to be an amazing thing having the first woman President, and even more amazing that she's going to carry out the Bill Clinton Presidency, short-circuited by un-Constitutional treachery, with strength and direction.

That girl rocks, and even better, her detractors on both sides of the aisle are pathetic to boot.

Oh my.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. I don't agree that Obama is shallow, but good stuff about Hillary
Edited on Sat Dec-30-06 09:59 PM by mtnsnake
You might be right. One more thing I might add, if I can. Hillary is doing something that we haven't done in a few elections of late. She's making attempts, some of them successful, in endearing herself to rural America and it's "values". In the last couple of decades, many of us liberals have become too arrogant and smug when it comes to rural America. We underestimate their power. Rural America is what made the difference for Bush. Too many of us forget how uneven the balance of representation is when it comes to metropolitan versus rural. Even though rural areas account for a much smaller population in the country than metropolitan areas, the rural states account for way more states than the more populated ones. All Democratic candidates would be smart to find a way to reach out.
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Tactical Progressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. I don't think we disagree on the fundamentals
I certainly don't mean that Obama is a shallow human being. Just shallow of political experience and wherewithal. In sports terms, he's like some bright young hopeful right out of college. He's got a long way to go, experience wise.

And you're right about Hillary. Unfortunately, to the less politically inclined, which is much of DU, politics is anathema and politicking is selling out. DU is much more ideologically inclined. I actually like that better, except when it comes time to play politics. Then it's not so good.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. Hillary? Oh Lord. She's about the *most wrong* candidate one could imagine.
Edited on Sat Dec-30-06 10:16 PM by jefferson_dem
Polarizing, cold, stale, megalomaniacal, unprincipled power-grabber ...

Not to mention she's dead wrong on so many crucial issues. Her support for W's blank check (IWR) alone is a disqualifier. Then again...she sure is focused like a laser beam on those dastardly video game ratings...

If Dems want to win in 2008, they will avoid Hill like the plague.
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Tactical Progressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. Like I said, silly stuff from detractors continues to make the case for Hillary
Edited on Sat Dec-30-06 10:51 PM by Tactical Progressive
I guess if Hillary has put in twelve years in the Arkansas Governorship with Bill, two terms in the White House, under extreme political pressure I might add even directed at her, and now two terms as elected Senator, then what kind of insane, monomaniacal, unethical, immoral, power-mongering whore must a neophyte state legislator like Obama be to think he deserves to run for President?

Unless of course the sneering labels of 'megalomaniacal, unprincipled power-grabber' are nothing more than the common denigrations leveled at women after the same offices as men. Guess John Edwards and Dennis Kucinich and Al Gore and Wesley Clark are 'megalomaniacal power-grabbers' too, huh? Oh, I didn't think so. Funny how you never hear that kind of talk about men vying for public office. Fuckin' bitches, huh?

As to 'dead wrong on so many issues', I'll trust Hillary to know the difference between right and wrong just a little better than, well, you.

Oh and don't worry, Hillary won't take your crucial-issue video games away.

Again, thanks for the retort. Every little bit of Hillary-hater insanity helps to discredit the whole lot.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Nice. A bit defensive, eh?
I was referring to the public impression of Hill not my own personal feelings toward the woman.

Anyway, i think i'll avoid getting into a pissing contest with you on this one. That seems to be your forte.

And i won't ask why you oppose African-Americans running for president either... :-)
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Tactical Progressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. Yeah, you're talking about what everyone else thinks, not you
when you spew that kind of crap. Right.

And of course you don't have to ask why I "oppose African-Americans running for president" - more dishonest crap from you - since I don't oppose it at all, and hope to vote for Obama some day, as I said, when he's got sufficient national political experience under his belt. Which is just a >tiny little bit< different from the kind of boilerplate anti-woman garbage you spewed about Hillary. Oh, sorry, other people spewed but you were just saying.

You don't own up to your mistakes very well. How about next time you just behave better to start with and you won't have to. That goes for all of the over-the-top Hillary bashers.

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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
41. And, you don't live in a red state, do you?
I think quite the opposite.

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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #41
60. If our objective is to target states like TN,
then we should ditch all the current prospective candidates and try to woo people like Sam Brownback into the party.

If the implication is that such solidly red states won't vote for Obama solely on the basis of his skin color, then such states should be ignored in our electoral strategy. There are plenty of electoral votes without them, so there's no reason to pander to the KKK.

The red states we should be hoping to flip are ones where we lost by less than 10 percentage points in 2004, and there are plenty of these. In such places, Obama has at worst an above average ability to expand our base of appeal.

Of course, I'm not suggesting that we should abandon places like TN. We should pour resources into such places to grow the party and try to advance a progressive agenda. However, we should not be choosing a candidate to appeal solely to the most conservative elements of this country. Moreover a party which chooses its candidate on the basis of his/her skin color is morally bankrupt and completely undeserving of anyone's support.
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. Damn! You're good!
:toast:
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
43. The man is on fire and he hasn't even begun yet, -- step up the security bigtime!!!!!
we already had a RFK!!!!
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trayfoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-30-06 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
51. Obama is fresh and interesting...........
but, I am still hoping for Al Gore. With the country as damaged as it is, we need someone who is experienced in the Presidency, and that is Gore. He can "hit the ground running". I would have no problem with Obama being a VP candidate. And, I will not vote for Hillary because she will be a "divider" - not that she will try to, but the hate for Clinton is out there and she will generate even more.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
55. ...and there will be peace in the valley forever and ever....
I don't know what you're smoking, but ANYONE who runs for president gets scrutunized beyond what most humans can withstand.

I like Obama. I also don't think he's going to run in 2008.

But just for poops and giggles, let's imagine him announcing his candidacy. The Reich Wing and its willing complicit corporate media have already been throwing crap on the wall to see if it sticks. They have ammo to use later. If you've done some homework on Obama, you know that looking at what his enemies are conjuring up will be the equivalent of the swiftboat liars in 2004. And guess what...the corporate media would love to ascend Obama to a dizzying height before they chop him off at the knees like so many "frontrunners" that seemed to be politically invincible.

When you run for president, you basically put yourself in for grueling 16-hour days on endless trips back and forth with a dozen speeches and meet-and-greets a day...for two years. While you are doing all this, every word is being recorded and scrutinized and perhaps taken out of context by reporters hell-bent on a "story" to further their career. The corporate media eats gaffe stories up like piranhas. So what if they are inaccurate? So what if they are misrepresenting what the candidate meant to say? So what if they are lies?

If Obama gets the nomination, it will be after a fairly grueling primary season. Then the real bloodfest begins.

Add that the primary season doesn't begin for over a year. Anything can happen between now and then.










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talk hard Donating Member (549 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #55
56. "poops and giggles"
ha-ha-ha --- if only campagins were that easy. I think Obama has the right stuff. He's young and fresh and doesnt' have the stink of the IWR vote on him.
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antiimperialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
57. Why McCain & Giuliani are weak candidates
Edited on Sun Dec-31-06 01:37 AM by antiimperialist
GOP candidates these days have to be both warmongers and religious fanatics in order to win elections (See George W. Bush). But this is only if said war is popular.
Giuliani is too moderate to energize the GOP base in '08. He's pro-gay and pro-choice. Meanwhile McCain is even more radical than Bush on Iraq, believe it or not, which will make him an unpopular candidate in regards of the #1 issue in the nation: The war in Iraq.
Giuliani will be weaker than usual in the South, while McCain like I said will be hunted by his call for a surge of troops at a time when Americans want troops out instead.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. Giuliani doesn't have a chance with his OWN party. Many of them will stay home if it's him
Edited on Sun Dec-31-06 08:55 AM by mtnsnake
I can't understand why so many people think Rudy the asshole stands such a good chance. Giuliani epitomizes some of the major reasons why most conservatives would never vote for a Democrat.

Hey, how'd we get talking about Giuliani and McCain? LOL
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
61. No. Fucking. Way.
Amerikkka is too racist and bigoted and "conservative" right now - among the most "conservative" nations in the world right now - on par with Iran in the hold of its religiosity and fundamentalism...

Maybe that will change, but I do not see it anytime soon...
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beaconess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. The only way America is going to change is to put black candidates in people's faces election after
election. It's ineffective - and cowardly - to keep black candidates on the sidelines with the excuse that America's not ready for them yet. That will only perpetuate the perceived problem. America's not going to suddenly get ready for a black president on its own - it will have to be consistently faced with the possibility of such a thing happening. I believe that once most Americans really consider the possibility, they will find it not as frightening as we think they will.
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JeremyWestenn Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #61
66. I rather disagree.

I don't think were on par with Iran on conservatism, but as much as most of you will hate to admit there is a conservative tilt to America. The thing is that my generation, what I like to refer to as the MTV generation, is definetely going to tip the scales in the comming years. I think Obama has a great shot at being elected President, the issue is whether or not he can battle it out and win in the primaries and I think Hillary is going to be a major, major contender.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
64. I think Obama could be the one we're looking for
I'm leaning hard toward Edwards, but the more I see of Obama the more I think he could be the Democrat who can win in 2008 -- and the first black US president.

I was sickened by the intermittent racism on display in this past year's elections, but I think there are far more people in this country who are ready to be charmed by someone with Obama's personality. And qualifications -- mustn't forget his qualifications, which are many.

Hekate

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JeremyWestenn Donating Member (372 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
65. I think he's got a good shot.

But we'll seriously see him wage a battle against the might of Hillary. People on DU are mostly against her and I think alot of you guys are really insulated and don't realise the star power Hillary herself has. It's gonna be interesting to see how it plays out.
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politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-31-06 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
67. You think the media will go easy on him?
Edited on Sun Dec-31-06 11:26 PM by politicasista
You think he will be above swiftboating? I like Obama but if you think that he or other candidates/nominees won't be smeared then you are in for a rude awakening.
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