Why is "Massachusetts liberal" such a slur? I'm getting a complex.

[Armstead]

Why is the worst thing (after being a Jane Fonda commie) that is used as an insult to Kerry that he is a "Massachusetts liberal"? Like the only thing worse that a "yuch liberal" is being a "OhmyGod MASSACHUSETTS LIBERAL...AYEEE, BRING OUT THE GARLIC!"

I don't like Kerry for other reasons. But as a Massachusetts liberal (or progressive) that seems to be a charge against him that seems most unfair and stupid....It's like Massachusetts Liberals are lower than whale shit on the food chain.

As anyone who has spent time in Massachusetts knows, we're not a bunch of clones, sitting around drinking latte and plotting the socialist revolution.

We're as diverse as any state, with conservatives, liberals, radicals, rednecks, soccer moms and office-park Dads, and everything in-between. We also have the usual divisions and polarizations as any other state. Heck we even elect Republican governors.

Massachusetts is actually among the most moderate states, when you balance it all out. We're not filled with fire-breathing fundamentalist Christians. Our religoion tends to be more mainstream, and the fundamentalists do not engage in the culture wars as heavily here....We have a big business community here, but they tend to be citizens too, rather than the rapacious Ken Lay types.

Probably the biggest difference here is that moderates tend to also be Democrats, and political liberals because they "get it."

And, while our republicans are still Republicans, they also temd to be more of the moderate persuasion, rather than the ideological obnoxious right wingers you find elsewhere.

People of different parties and ideologies actually work together here often.

Sure, we produced Dukakis, who was a bad preidential candidate, although a very good governor. But we also produced John F. Kennedy, Teddy and Bobby. We've also produced many other successful and respected politicians, including some reasonable Republicans like Ed Brooke.

Sure we were the only state that went for McGovern in 1972. But in post-Watergate, it turns out the rest of the nation should have listened. As the old bumper stickers of that era pointed out "Don't Blame me. I'm from Massachusetts."

Like I said I'm not a big Kerry fan. But the fact that he is a (supposed) liberal from Massachusetts is not what defines him.

Maybe us Massachusetts liberals should start an anti-defamation league of our own. We're getting a bum rap.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I like to remind people that Massachusetts

has always been liberal and ahead of the rest of the country on many issues, like the little matter of democracy and abolition/equal rights.

[Armstead]

3. Yep

remember those Massachusetts Liberals who dumped all that tea in Boston Harbor.

[dsewell]

6. Bumper sticker thoughts?

I've been thinking about an appropriate bumper sticker if Kerry becomes the nominee and the L-word is tossed around as a slur. How about "PAUL REVERE was a MASSACHUSETTS LIBERAL"? Any better choices than Paul Revere? (JFK is an obvious possibility, but I think it would be better to look farther into the past to avoid the whole Democratic/Republican identification.)

[hyphenate]

13. John Adams,

John Quincy Adams, John Hancock, Benjamin Franklin, Samual Adams, and Eldrige Gerry, among many others. Here's a link to get started:

http://www.archives.gov/exhibit_hall/charters_of_freedom/constitution/massachusetts.html

[angryinoville]

23. I thought Ben Franklin was from Philly

[aldian159]

24. Born in boston, moved to philly at age 17

n/t

[Armstead]

26. Ol' Ben couldn;t take all those Mssachusetts Liberals I guess

"Born in boston, moved to philly at age 17"

[Kathy in Cambridge]

28. Philly's not exactly a bastion of conservative thought

;-)

[Ficus]

18. whoah

great idea!

[sallyseven]

2. It is because they use liberal as a swear word

like horses butt etc. I think it is too bad that Dukakis and Mc
Govern didn't become president. We wouldn't have had such stupid presidents. Nixon was a crook and bush was simp only after money. But then most Americans can be swayed but nonsense. They really don't want honesty and integrity. They want someone just like them.

[hyphenate]

4. Amen

I lived in California for 15 years, but was so happy to return to the land of the free, and the home of the brave, BACK to Boston!!!!

Massachusetts has a great sense of the underdogs, the downtrodden, the entire culture and educational wars, the poverty stricken, immigrants, and so much history to make us far more aware of the best and the worst in this country, that sometimes I wonder how some people can understand as much as we do about the delicate system of democracy. There is a difference between a wealthy man supporting the poor and issues about the poor, and a wealthy man supporting his cronies and giving out corporate welfare. That is the difference between a Bush and a Kennedy.

[corporatewhore]

5. it evokes images of a wealthy aristocratic out of touch elitist who

went to an ivy league school and schmoozes in country clubs and has never had to deal with ordinary peoples problems and it also scares oldachool conservatives and libertarians (who we could get this year) because it evokes imagesof a big federalised govt lover who keep power centralised kerrywont be the ideal cannidatee because with theese guys we could win them over with the patriot act and freetrade if we ran a cannidate opposed to them

[DinahMoeHum]

7. Well, columnist EJ Dionne shares your pain. . .

Link:
http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?ItemID=16379


(snip)
"...Can't supporters of the Bush administration think of something more original than issuing fatwas against "Massachusetts Liberals"? Does this President Bush honestly think that if he ends up facing John Kerry this fall, he can just rerun his dad's campaign of 16 years ago against Michael Dukakis?
As John Edwards likes to say about almost everything, this is personal for me. My blue-collar hometown of Fall River, Mass., was solidly Democratic, but as conservative in its values as you could imagine -- family, church, neighborhood, hard work and patriotism were the drill. I'm grateful I grew up in such a pro-family environment. That's why the parody of Massachusetts as an exotic, left-wing place infuriates me.

My state is full of cities and towns like Fall River -- Lawrence and Pittsfield, Fitchburg and Greenfield, Worcester and New Bedford. I'm sorry, but people who think Massachusetts is a culturally or politically demented place have never been to Massachusetts..."
(snip)


The last time a "Massachusetts Liberal" got elected was over 40 years ago, and he was prevented from filling out that term. Who knows what could have been if JFK was still alive? IMHO, since his assasination, our nation has been in a moral and political wilderness. If it takes another so-called "M-L" to get us out of there, so be it; it's about f**kin' time.


:kick:

[RichM]

8. Lots of commies live in Massachusetts. It's a known fact.

You can't fool us. We know about you guys. While you're all sitting there sipping your latte and plotting revolution, reading your Chomsky and Zinn (2 infamous Massachusetts residents, I might point out), aggressively renewing your ACLU memberships -- the moral fibre of our nation is under attack! And let's not even get into certain of your state's liberal court decisions regarding gay marriage!

Hey, don't kid us. We wuzzen't born yesterday. ;-)

[Armstead]

17. Gee I didn;t know you lived here...

or are you just one of them subversives that massachusetts sends out to the rest of the country to undermine our moral fiber/ }(

[CWebster]

9. If anyone fits the bill

It is Kerry.

The problem is that rather than embracing it and legitimatizing it, he tries to downplay it as something shameful. A strickly political move- not a stand foundeded upon deep commitment to anything.

[skippysmom]

10. The perfect response:

If wanting a better health care system, better American jobs, and a fairer tax system makes me a Massachusetts liberal, than by God, I'm a Massachusetts liberal.

I'm a native New Englander who went to college in Mass and now lives in Mass. Yeah, there are your typical limo liberals here. And your academics. But Massachussettsians are Americans too. We face issues of affordable housing, rising taxes, declining services, and vanishing jobs.

I'm at a point where I think the Northeast should just secede.

[MAlibdem]

32. Northeast secession

would suit me fine,

but id rather bring the Real Deal to the heathens in the rest of the country ;)

[Kathy in Cambridge]

33. Don't you think if Kerry Wins, He will be demonized like Clinton?

"patrician", "limousine liberal", are just some terms I can see the Repug machine throwing out to discredit him.

[Loonman]

11. Easy way to counter:

Q: "are you a Massachgusetts liberal"
A: "why, are you a (state) Nazi?

[Kathy in Cambridge]

12. Skippysmom brings up a good point

"I'm at a point where I think the Northeast should just secede."

I am so sick of the "Mass. bashing" on DU and in the media. Massachusetts is where democracy in this country started. The term "elitist" is BS. Our state is full of middle-class and working-class family-oriented, church-going people. The only difference is that we MYOB (Mind Your Own Business) with regard to the social issues that still grip the rest of the country. We are tolerant of differences while keeping our beliefs to ourselves. Maybe it's because Mass. is a melting pot of different cultures, or maybe it's our Puritan and Revolutionary past that has contributed to our 'liberalism'. I think it's more a willingness to learn from mistakes like the '70s busing issue and other ugly blemishes in our history.

I resent that my federal tax money is being sent to parts of the country that teach creationism as science, teach intolerance of gays and immigrants, and fund religious charities that discriminate against gays, women, and minorities.

Maybe us stiff upper-lipped Yankees should secede, and the rest of the country can live with their American Taliban fundie Xtian government. The only thing they'll miss is our tax money...

On edit: how 'bout a Northeast secession movement? Do you think they'll send the National Guard in?

[Armstead]

19. yeah, tolerance is it

I agree that the strongest characteristic here is basic tolerance.

Even though we tend to be Cranky Yankees and have our share of polatization conflicts too. When I go to many other places, I'm reminded that we not nearly as stratified and run by busybodies trying to impose their version of "family values" and economic dogma on eberyone else. Rather our basic motto here is "live and let live." With a strong element of "and help each otehr out" added in.

That's really one of the reasons why we're the state where the Gay Marriage issue has been focused. (Although we have some right-wing busybodies fighting it too.) It's not that we're trying to push some "liberal agenda" or undermine the nation's moral fiber. It's a lot simpler than that. Rather it's just saying, "Two gay people want to get married? That's their business, not mine."

[skippysmom]

30. I don't know...

..sounds like the rest of the country wouldn't miss us one bit!

[Kathy in Cambridge]

31. They'd miss our tax money-that's about it

the Northeast is one of the most highly-taxed regions.

[Forkboy]

14. I'm not just a Massachusetts Liberal

I'm a FLAMING Massachusetts Liberal...and damn proud of it! :)

[Kathy in Cambridge]

15. We always knew that about you, Forkboy

;-)

[Forkboy]

16. heh...that obvious huh?

:)

[Mass_Liberal]

20. I don't think it is

;)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

21. because it's Taxachusetts

most prominently among other reasons.

[Armstead]

22. That's true

That is a problem.

But part of that is also a recognition that it costs money to run society and care for otehrs....Unlike some states who would rather see peopel starve and die than provide any social services to them.

Plus we do have a big old infrastructure and a lousy climate, which costs money.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

27. Our tax burden isn't as high as some of the other states

contrary to the name bestowed on us. Mike Malloy mentioned on one of his shows that the Blue States in the Northeast, California, and Hawaii are "giver" states, whereas the Red States are "taker" states with regard to how the federal tax money is allocated. As I mentioned above, I have issues with my tax money going to promote discriminatory practices in other parts of the country, such as 'faith-based' charities that discriminate against certain segments of society, and programs that interfere with education, like revisionist history and creationism. Let the states that want to teach that bullshit and continue to discriminate pay to do so.

[geniph]

25. I actually heard some wingnut

use "card-carrying member of the ACLU" as if it were an insult. I hadn't heard that particular bit of trash dragged out since Dukakis. Oh horrors - he might actually support our right to civil liberties as enumerated in the Bill of Rights!

I am myself a PROUD card-carrying member of the ACLU, and have been for 20-some years. Anyone who supports our civil liberties should be proud to be one.

I love the way they're trying to use the same crap that worked on Dukakis. That old dog won't hunt this time around.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

29. Kick for Armstead

and DU's resident "Massholes" :-)

[Armstead]

35. I prefer the term..

mass kickers.

[Piperay]

34. Liberals have 'allowed' (with no defending) the

term to become a slur and so that is what it is. Liberals need to define themselves and take the name back with PRIDE!

[alcuno]

36. At least you're not a "Chicago Democrat"

But it's probably not a bum rap.

[tishaLA]

37. Try being a Hollywood Liberal

it gets more press most of the time.

[ozone_man]

38. What true liberal votes for the Iraq war

or the Patriot Act? Kerry would rather not have a trial to determine OBL's guilt, scolding Dean for suggesting it.

These forefathers that you mentioned would probably roll over in their graves if they knew modern day "liberals" were shredding their Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Maybe that's not the reply you intended, but that is my reaction to some of the "liberals" in Congress who have no spine. And I don't think John Kerry is the type to throw tea in any harbor. These guys weren't liberals they were radicals, revolutionaries, free thinkers.

[Kathy in Cambridge]

39. I'm not a Kerry Supporter, but he's been a good Senator

no one is a revolutionary anymore-politics has gotten very cynical.

[MAlibdem]

40. I feel a true liberal would have voted for the Iraq War

A tenet of liberalism since the French Revolution is that in order for democracy and human rights to survive, they have to be actively spread throughout the world.

Two ways to do this:
1. Provide humanitarian aid to other countries (we don't do this enough)

2. Overthrow despots around the world and hold plebiscites (we do this poorly, but see Haiti as an example which could have worked if we stayed more engaged and backed it up with more humanitarian assistance).


Defense Department encourages #2, State #1, both are overseen by a moron who has a corrupted view of the goal (that economic liberty comes before political liberty).