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wcepler Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 05:49 PM
Original message
Don't let the old guard DNC eat the 2006 bread baked by the liberal/progressive little red hen




Don't let the old guard DNC eat the 2006 bread baked by the liberal/progressive little red hen.



**********************************************************************

Let's face it, Bill Clinton ran as a liberal who turned out to be a quasi Republican centrist.



Then in year 2000, G. Duhbya ran as a centrist who turned out to be a nightmare lunatic fringe right winger.



So let's not let "establishment" DNC types (e.g., James Carville and Hillary Clinton) steal the 2006 midterm election victory from the people who actually WON this election, i.e., Howard Dean and a power block of liberal/progressives.



Dean did a wonderful job of infusing some ethics and rationality into the good 'ol boy DNC dinosaur, but he's still just the tip of an iceberg of political dead weight.



The DNC, minus Howard Dean, basically equals the RNC. Each is intrinsically a fascist institution, i.e., a no change, no risk, collection of status quo'ers. There's just as many DNC "elites" as there are RNC "elites" and all of them are light years away from the values and vision of American liberals.



In 2008 we need a Gore or Dean, not another Clinton marshmallow. We need someone who is in touch with the reality of planet Earth, not another quasi Republican.



God in heaven, if we've learned anything in the last 6 years it's that we're fighting for the very life of our planet and country, and for THAT job, the last thing we need is a DNC country club non-boat-rocker.



One wonders if there actually IS a Hillary Clinton! Admittedly, there's a life form there with that name who never commits to anything and who has spent the last 6 year ducking and sliding around all national and international issues of substance, so it's almost impossible to know what she believes about ANYTHING.



Now this is old time politics. Don't take a stand about anything and hope you can slip through the back door at election time because no one knows what you are for or against. I doubt if Mrs. Clinton would say if she's for or against nose picking, much less tax breaks for the mega rich. Of course, the one exception is that she has gone on record over and over again supporting the Bush War in Iraq. One wonders why she didn't also get a big kiss from George like Joe Liebermann did for so consistently supporting the Iraq horror show (which even Bush is now acknowledged has been chiefly about oil).



But, forget about Hillary and Carville, etc., (literally!). We've got to figure out how best to eat this bread we've baked. And by the way, you may have noticed that suddenly "liberal" and "progressive" are no longer political dirty words. Of course centrist DNC'ers would jump out of a window before they identified with a liberal or even populist (e.g., Harry Truman) agenda. No, these people are going to play it very, very safe and answer all life and death planetary questions with, "That's for me to know and you to find out".



But you can take it to the bank that DNC elites are going to do their very best to discount Howard Dean (it's already happening) and American liberals. And it's just a matter of time before they come out with their constitutional and planet trashing "compromises" with Heart of Darkness Bush/Republicans.



What happened in 11/7 was a literal political revolution and we have to make sure we keep this precious bread we baked, because it is arguably the only hope for our country and planet.



So the point is NOT to compromise with Cheney/Halliburton type energy companies that are raping and killing Mother Nature. The point is NOT to compromise with tax plans that turn millionaires into multimillionaires and multimillionaires into billionaires (while breaking the back of the middle and lower classes). The point is NOT to compromise with scientific retards who destroy medical research (e.g., embryonic stem cell research) while under funding out of existence the priceless American scientific community. And on and on.



Became this is what DNC centrists "do". They keep making deals with the devil so as not to rock that elitist international country club boat -- a country club which is equally indifferent to the desperate planetary warnings of Al Gore and the honorable populist values of Howard Dean.



So, buzz off Hillary and Carville (and Joe Liebermann). You've shown your true colors too many times and just because you can smell this life and death bread, doesn't mean you're going to get to eat it.



Hey, if we were smart, organized, and well financed enough to take our country back, trust us, we're not going to let you turn our victory in a DNC Clinton/Carville marshmallow.



Bake your own bread.

**********************************************************************


wcproteus





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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. Uh...a lot of conservatives voted for Democrats this time.
A lot of the new Democrats in office are pretty conservative. I'm pretty sure we get a seat at the table too.
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wcepler Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. reply
I hope so. We earned it.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. Please get your facts straight
Edited on Sat Nov-11-06 11:21 PM by jgraz
A lot of the new Democrats in office are pretty conservative


No, they aren't. Sherrod Brown, Carol Shea-Porter, Jon Tester, Jerry McNerney, Bruce Braley, and John Hall are just a few examples of old-style liberals who were swept into office this year, often after beating a DCCC-supported primary challenge from the right. Center-right candidates like Harold Ford and Tammy Duckworth were sent packing.

Even supposed social conservatives like Heath Shuler are left-of-center on economic and foreign policy issues. Even Jim Webb, the former Republican, came out strong on class issues -- going so far as to actually use the word "class" while talking about economic justice.

We ignore this new liberal landscape at our peril.

ETA: actual spelling and grammar
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NaturalHigh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. What about Brad Ellsworth?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2685839&mesg_id=2685839

What about a lot of the other Democrats already in Congress who are pretty conservative? I'd say they will also be ignored at our own peril.

A lot of Democrats aren't liberal. We should be recognized as part of the party as well. Otherwise, don't count on our votes when our concerns are ignored.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Hey, Hotshot — Howard Dean is Chairman of the DNC, you know.
:eyes:
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wcepler Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. reply
Yes I do know that and he did what he could, but the status quo intertia is still there in spite of his best efforts.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Hillary Clinton and James Carville are not DNC "elites"; they aren't even
a part of the DNC.
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. You are right.
Don't worry about anti womens rights, anti equality people who want are going to chime in. There is nothing conservative about wanting control over other people's lives.

Fact of the matter is, this time was a repudiation of the Bush regime. However, the majority of the people still desire single payer health care and they really don't give a shit about what other people are doing if it isn't hurting them. It is right-wing jerks that are worried about running other people's lives.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. Our party is a big tent party
Get over it. :eyes.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
5. You've confused DNC w/DLC.
The DNC RRRRAWWWWWWXXXXXXXXXXXX, the DLC SSSSSUXXXXXXXX!!!!!!!

This has been a Public Information Announcement!!!! :D
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 07:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. Don't have time to rip your post apart... but again you show a lack of knowledge
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Actually quite a bit of knowledge, as in:
""...centrists "do". They keep making deals with the devil so as not to rock that elitist international country club boat -- a country club which is equally indifferent to the desperate planetary warnings of Al Gore and the honorable populist values of Howard Dean."

The country club set has been upset. They lost big in this election and the future bodes ill for them. Of course the future bodes even worse for us, but let's not quibble. The main difference is this: Those who presently have keys to the club and those who will never be peacibly let inside.

Us vs. Them


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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. actually the entire post is full of generalities, factual inaccuracies...
Edited on Sat Nov-11-06 07:54 PM by wyldwolf
... and clichéd revolutionary language. To quote Tobin Harshaw, the post is written like a high school newspaper editor going through his Marxist or logical positivist phase: to the author it speaks of revolution; to the reader it resonates immaturity.

One quick example:
Let's face it, Bill Clinton ran as a liberal who turned out to be a quasi Republican centrist.


Completely false. As someone who was there, I know he ran as a centrist, his commercials touted his New Democrat credentials including pledges on welfare reform, Free trade, and "tough on crime" initiatives, and his recent autobio confirms it all.

The only people pushing the pulp in his post are the netroots.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. You nailed it...Revolutionary!
So good to see. There needs to be a revolution, don't you think?
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. if that is what you think I said, you should do a re-read.
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justinaforjustice Donating Member (519 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 07:47 PM
Response to Original message
11. Your Facts Are Wrong
Wcepler, you seem to be confusing the Democratic National Committee (DNC), the official ruling body of the Democratic Party, with the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC), which is not a part of the DNC. The the majority of the DNC is composed of elected state Democratic Party chairs, vice chairs and state political leaders. The majority of its members voted to make Howard Dean the chairperson of the DNC, in lieu of several other candidates, some of whom were supported by the DLC leadership.

The majority of state party DNC members are delighted with the success of Dean's "50 state strategy", in which he has used DNC funds to place full time organizers and trainers in each of the individual states. This has resurrected many previously moribund state and local party organizations. The previous DNC chairs used their funds almost solely to support the big candidates in national elections, ignoring putative "red states" altogether.

The 2006 election has shown the effectiveness of Dean's party-building work. He has given more power to state parties, and reduced the power of the big corporate donors who used to buy their favorite candidates with their vast checkbooks. Dean has also reduced the power of the big corporate donors by generating enormous amounts of money from small individual donations, through the internet and through the introduction of Democracy bonds and monthly pledges from small donors. As a result of Dean's strategy, the DNC helped to fund many unknown grass roots candidates whose election helped to win control of the House and the Senate.

Media stars such as Carville have no power whatever in the DNC. He is not a member. He touts the candidates of the conservative Democratic Leadership Council, of which Hillary Clinton and Joe Lieberman are stars. These are the folks who gave us the losing "Republican-lite" candidates for much too long. Of course they don't like Dean, he is reducing their power to choose and control the candidates with their campaign funds.

Why not get active in your local Democratic Party, run for election to your state central committee, and help determine the future in a democratic Democratic Party?
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wcepler Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. thanks
I see now that I actually was unclear about that distinction and I thank you for laying it out so thoroughly. I'm after those good ol boy status quo'ers who are the dead weight inertia of the Democratic Party. I see now I have to sharpen my focus.

Some people respond to these submissions with such hostility it takes my breath away. Your civilized disagreement/clarification was very helpful and it has given some new food for thought.

cheers, proteus
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
29. Thanks for the post, justinainjustice.
And welcome to DU!
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
14. Your post would be perfection if you changed DNC to DLC in the title thread
and then didn't say one other thing.

Quite a beautiful summary/parable in one sentence. Great imaginative linking, just a few details wrong :thumbsup:
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wcepler Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. reply
Thanks. I too think that sometimes one sentence shouldn't be added to. I am more clear now about the DNC and DLC distinction so in the future I'll be readjusting my sights.

cheers, wcproteus

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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. In addition, you should study which Senators are DLC
It will help you when you are looking at roll call lists to see who voted against us.

I try to track Senator votes, and I have this list.

An * is a person in the DLC. Kerry isn't so bad, but there is a block at the bottom that irritates me to no end. They are not centrists, but essentially pro-Bush legislators (who are radicals, in my opinoin). The number represent the % of time the Senator votes with progressives on big issues.

Harkin (Iowa).................. 90
Boxer (California)............. 86
Lautenberg (New Jersey)........ 86
Durbin (Illinois).............. 81
Feingold (Wisconsin)........... 81
Kennedy (Massachusetts)........ 81
Corzine (New Jersey) now Gov... 77
Kerry (Massachusetts).........> 76 *
Akaka (Hawaii)................. 76
Levin (Michigan)............... 76
Mikulski (Maryland)............ 76
Reed (Rhode Island)............ 76
Sarbanes (Maryland)............ 76
Biden (Deleware)............... 71
Dodd (Connecticut)............. 71
Wyden (Oregon)................. 71
Leahy (Vermont)................ 69
Obama (Illinois)............... 69
Bayh (Indiana)................. 67 *
Schumer (New York)............. 67 *
Dayton (Minnesota)............. 67
Inouye (Hawaii)................ 64 *
Dorgan (North Dakota).......... 62 *
Reid (Nevada).................. 62
Clinton (New York)............. 60 *
Murray (Washington)............ 60
Byrd (West Virginia)........... 57
Stabenow (Michigan)............ 55 *
Kohl (Wisconsin)............... 52 *
Menendez (New Jersey).......... 50 *
Bingaman (New Mexico).......... 50
Rockefeller (West Virginia).... 48
Feinstein (California)......... 45 *
Cantwell (Washington).......... 43 *
Conrad (North Dakota).......... 43 *
Leiberman (Connecticut)........ 43 *
Carper (Deleware).............. 38 *
Baucus (Montana)............... 36 *
Johnson (South Dakota)......... 33 *
Lincoln (Arkansas)............. 29 *
Pryor (Arkansas)............... 26 *
Nelson (Florida)............... 24 *
Salazar (Colorado)............. 24 *
Landrieu (Louisianna).......... 19 *
Nelson (Nebraska).............. 5 *

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wcepler Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-11-06 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. thanks again
VERY interesting list. Hell I admit it, sometimes I'm just so eager to nail the bad guys (e.g., status quo dems), I cut corners on doing my homework. But I'm also learning in the long run that's a mistake. Your very specific information clearly comes from doing your homework and the more facts you have at your fingertips, the better you can argue your case. I think I usually try to find a middle ground (to save time), but sometimes that's very hard to do.

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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. Excellent, Zodiak!
Do you have a similar list for House Members?
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Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Wish I did
but that is a monumental task. I spend about a couple of hours once every three months updating the Denate list, but that I all I have time to do.

It does give me a good gauge on which Dems to support with all my heart, and which ones to ho hum about.

In the meantime, I made this animated gif if anyone wants to steal it.



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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. I fired up the printer so I could have a hard copy....
I'm in Michigan, so Stabenow is in my cross-hairs right now.
I understand that Levin is not very pleased with her.
I know that grassroot support was lacking in her campaign.
My front lawn had a hole where her sign SHOULD have been,
had she VOTED LIKE A DEMOCRAT!
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. hmm... maybe others should as well
Schumer? No.
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greeneggs708 Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
23. Enough Already
We need everyone, every vote in Congress, EVERYONE.

And your garbage deserves to be flushed downt the toilet.

You didn't win crap. We were given a chance to straighten out the mess.

SO GET OFF YOUR KUMBAYA, POT SMOKING, PEACE TRAIN And learn to work with others.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
25. I agree with you that Dr. Dean did an amazing job.
But why do you kick Clinton, who also did an amazing job in this country-Peace and Prosperity.
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wcepler Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-12-06 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. reply
Actually I like Bill Clinton, but his wife hasn't done anything to deserve to be a presidential candidate in 2008 -- plus, she's too tied in to the conservative DLC (I see now that I should have been referring to the DLC, not the DNC). I just don't want status quo DLC types to cash in on what courageous liberal/progressives have accomplished.

As a personal note, it's funny how I'm learning how important it is to say things very, very plainly. If you don't, someone (not speaking of you) is going to jump to preposterous conclusions about those sections that aren't black and white clear. For example, I had someone jump to the conclusion that my political revolution metaphor made me a Marxist. Of course, that's rubbish. Marxism had it's day and it failed.

Also part of the problem is that these submissions are necessarily brief so you don't have the luxury of "defining all your terms". That's an essay, not an on the run, middle of your life message to (usually) like minded liberals and progressives.

Oh, well. You can't please all the people all the time.

cheers
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