Tin Foil Hat Time: Were Bush And Rove "The Producers" Of An Intentional Flop?

[babsbunny]

http://www.attytood.com/2006/11/tinfoil_hat_time_were_bush_and_1.html

"Under the right circumstances, a producer could make more money with a flop than with a hit."
-- Accountant Leo Bloom, from "The Producers."

There are five stages of grief -- anger is the second, right after denial, and that's where the Republicans are at right now. The sudden ouster of the highly unpopular defense secretary Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, just hours after the GOP electoral bloodbath, has led to most angry Republican fingers pointing straight at Karl Rove & Co.:

"The White House said keeping the majority was a priority, but they failed to do the one thing that could have made a difference," one House GOP leadership aide said Thursday. "For them to toss Rumsfeld one day after the election was a slap in the face to everyone who worked hard to protect the majority."

Maybe it's just because the Democrats actually won something, but for the last few days, something has just not felt quite right about either Tuesday's election, or the White House's handling of the voting and the aftermath. We have no doubts that a majority of American voters wanted change on Election Day, and they wanted the Democrats to be the agent of that change.

[onenote]

1. no.

[LiberalArkie]

2. Don't believe it for a second.

The real reason is the normal corporate mindset present at this Whitehouse.

They are surrounded by nothing but "yes men". They never hear anything but "yes Sir, I agree totally sir". They never went out and asked normal people.

How can I say this?

Were any normal people ever at his speeches? You had to be a card carrying Repub to get in. They never saw it coming.

[drb]

27. Right. Rove got Abramoff busted. Rove got Tom DeLay busted.

Rove actually snuck into Iraq and single-handedly removed all Saddam's weapons of mass destruction before we could find them. Rove got Halliburton to do shitty work in Iraq and endanger our troops in the process. Rove got Mark Foley a reputation as a gay pedophile. Rove got Bush the enviable 30% or so popularity he's got now. Rove got 2900 brave troops killed for no apparent reason at all. And he got Bob Ney and Randy Cunningham caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

Yeah, that boy's a real fuckin' genius all right. Just make sure he stays on their team, OK?

[flowomo]

3. LOL... a perfect example of the "loser" mentality that plagues us

when the Newt-led GOP seized the government, did they sit around worrying they had been "set up"? No, they claimed a victory based on their own hard work and principles. When Dems win, too many, so used to losing and so unsure of their own abilities, look furtively around for the Master Genius who has manipulated them. The Democrats won because they were the better choice and Bush, Rove, Rumsfeld et. al. were further exposed as the incompetent fools they are. Democrats have been "actually" winning things at times during my whole life (I'm 56). Winning is nothing new to me. Get used to it.

[jokerman93]

13. Yes

We've won. And we're going to get used to it!

[survivor999]

25. Not "too many"... Just the same folks who did squat to win...

Don't worry, the people who busted their butts to win are still out there and keep fighting. The revolution has just started. There are huge waves of progressive junior politicians at the local level who are going to start taking over and influencing things in a bottomup fashion.

[lisa58]

4. Stop giving these idiots credit.

[Jawja]

5. No. This is bullshit.

I'm getting sick and tired of the "Rove never loses; he's the greatest political genius of all time" crap. :eyes:

[roguenkatz]

6. I've read this post more than once.

Stop perpetuating this myth.

[Zensea]

7. It's Always tin foil hat time for some people

nuf said

[mtnsnake]

8. Yes & I'm considering jumping off a cliff, hoping to live long enough for a book deal

[jokerman93]

17. Life is full of nothing but valid choices

Just make sure you tuck and roll when you land. It gets easy after the first few times.
:evilgrin:

[hlthe2b]

9. the premise to me is ridiculous. Rummy fired just before ....

the election, to me, would not have made any difference. I mean how long have so many been calling for his head and for change in Iraq policy? To do so right before the election would have been a transparent last ditch desperation effort and would have been perceived as such, despite the spin.
However, to not have done so, but to wait until after the election, letting it still be known it was in the works for weeks, sends a horrible message to his followers. They just don't give a damn about them any more than he does the rest of us...


No, it was a cluster f**k mistake...Some Repugs may be consoling themselves that it allows a chance for them to turn around the party and shift blame for their disastrous policies and actions the past 6 years to the DEMS somehow (if the Dems fail to clean up all their mess in the 2 years prior to the next Presidential election), but I think they are nuts. We will have 2 years to investigate and make sure the PUBLIC knows what shit has been pulled and covered up by the REPUGS.


Please... Those who don tin foil hats--time to LOOSEN them up, just a tad!

[InternalDialogue]

10. Whenever my Broncos lose a game in an embarrasing manner

against a strong opponent, I tell myself that coach Mike Shanahan didn't put all his game plan into action, that he expects to face that team again in the playoffs, and he's saving much of his strategy and firepower for that game, a more important game.

It makes sense to think that way--long-term goals--after a loss, looking for a grand theme that includes a loss in it to preserve one's sense of power. But it's all yesterday-think. Be it a game or an election, you want the win -- until you lose, when you start putting the loss into a larger composition in which a loss makes sense.

As for some of the reasons the writer (Will Bunch) gives as possible reasons the White House wanted a loss, the one about getting the Democrats to the table on Iraq to "share the blame" makes little sense. The Democrats have consistently proposed ideas the past two years that are in line with popular opinion in America. And any investigations into the war profiteering and conduct of the Pentagon with regards to Abu Ghraib and the CIA with regards to secret prisons and torture wipes away any benefit that comes from sharing the responsibility for the resolution of the war -- regardless of how that goes, the profiteering, the abuse, and the torture are strictly Republican ventures.

And I don't buy the idea that a Democratically controlled Congress is OK because it'll pass the guest-worker program Bush wants, while the Republicans of the 109th Congress were in opposition. Bush has been able to arm-twist far more critical votes out of the Republicans -- he got a POW to vote in favor of torture, for goodness' sake!

As for throwing out the idea that it's OK to have a Democratic Congress approve a minimum wage increase, because Republicans were going to be leaning that way anyway--bah! If it's a popular enough idea that you say, "Well, it's going to happen anyway," then you work to retain your power, you pass the popular legislation with your own spin on it, and you soothe your angry corporate donors by giving away more of the handouts you've been giving them for six years anyway.

I love the game and I love to talk about how the loss fits into a bigger picture, but this election was just an example of how abusing power to an extreme that can be seen by everyday Americans was a mistake.

[flowomo]

12. good post.... and we'll see ya in the playoffs....

though I will say that Belichick and my Patriots obviously were holding back in those games against you Colts and will roll like a Hula Hoop on linoleum come playoff time. :)

[shance]

11. He who owns the machines dictates the elections

One thing I will say is there was plenty of fraud and secrecy from coast to coast. It's been documented and it is BIG.

So what is the fraud, suppression and active blocking of citizens observing their elections?

If it's such an fair and accurate election, why the threats intimidation and secrecy?

The truth is our elections are still being manufactured and manipulated by those abusing power and the good ole boy system.

The sooner people realize that simply because we "won" this time around, that may be exactly the reason why they "let" us - to give a false impression of security.

Here in California they stopped snap tallies, lied to the poll workers about the machine tabulation, stopped citizen audit polls/parallel elections, it has been a mess.

Our elections need more citizen participation/citizen audits now than EVER.

Dont become complacent because we won what we should have won and/or we got handed what was ours to begin with.

[sutz12]

14. This is my major concern...

that a victory here will lesson the desire for true election reform. It is still very badly needed, and should still be a major priority. Hopefully, they don't drop the ball.

[Berry Cool]

15. Aw, don't be wet blankets, people! Think of what a great musical it would make!

The mere thought of Ken Mehlman, the Rev. Ted Haggard, Mark Foley and Jeff Gannon (not to mention Denny Hastert) singing "Keep It Gay" is enough to warm the cockles of MY heart.

[Warren Stupidity]

16. Uh, let me think for a second, hmmmm....

intentionally give up the monopoly on national power and give the opposition party subpoena-backed investigative authority? Not likely.

Nope, that hat don't fit.

[AZBlue]

18. I think Rummy was tossed because they lost.

I think the plans were in place because they knew a loss was a good possibility, but if they had won on Tuesday, we'd still have Rummy in place.

[Imagevision]

19. Rummy was tossed because of upcoming war crimes charges...

Bush needed him gone now to look good to incoming new house & senate as though Bush was making the gesture as the smart thing to do when all along Bush knew of impending Rumsfeld trial story about to break which currently is being featured in Newsweek magazine.

[roseBudd]

20. No they did not realize their talking points had "jumped the shark"...

Liberal, liberal, liberal doesn't work when people look at you and see "incompetent, incompetent, incompetent"

Calling democrats traitors that want terrorists to come to America and take over was so ludicrous it was like Fonzie jumping over a shark on Happy Days.

It's like keeping deer out of your garden. Pissing on your hostas may work at first, but the deer will return and they will eat those just pissed on hostas.

[JeffR]

21. Two words: oh brother...

:eyes:

[USMA Dem]

22. Possibly, i was thinking this too

That being said, I have that song "Springtime for Hitler" in my head. Thanks..

[chieftain]

23. Crooks and liars that purposely give subpoena power to

their adversaries would require a level of stupidity that even this crew could not attain.

[QC]

24. I think you need to add another layer of foil.

Those messages from Control are still getting through.

[PermanentRevolution]

26. Don't think so, although...

It wouldn't be the first time. The GOP pulled this back in '76 with Carter's election. They realized that the problems of the Nixon/Ford era were going to be coming to a head, and that the public was extremely unhappy with the Republican party, so they ran a weak campaign to ensure that Carter would win, and then face the backlash when all of the problems finally came to a head. And it worked, because Carter was toast in '80.

But that was a presidential election, not a midterm. Bush is still around as the face of the GOP, so they can't really lay low just because they lost Congress. Not quite the same situation.

[valerief]

28. Hey, we could get a Pearl Harbor for Thanksgiving and martial

law for Christmas. Then again, we could get our Constitution back. It all depends on how bad the bad guys are.

[snowbear]

29. Anyone who even REMOTELY thinks this way gives waaAaay too much credit to the r-THUGS!

"Tin- freakin' foil" (not to mention LAME) is right!

Good grief.. some people. (Not you babs!! .. I mean the brain-dead righties that think that actually think that way)

[onenote]

30. y'know, there was another thread making fun of freepers for saying the same thing

just sayin'......