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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 11:20 PM
Original message
In Key House Races, like Heath Shuler's in NC, Democrats Run to the Right
NYT: In Key House Races, Democrats Run to the Right
By SHAILA DEWAN and ANNE E. KORNBLUT
Published: October 30, 2006


(USA Today)
Former NFL quarterback Heath Shuler, with campaign supporters

ASHEVILLE, N.C., Oct. 28 In their push to win back control of the House, Democrats have turned to conservative and moderate candidates who fit the profiles of their districts more closely than the profile of the national party.

One such candidate, Heath Shuler, was courted by Republicans to run for office in 2001. Mr. Shuler, 34, is a retired National Football League quarterback who is running in the 11th Congressional District in North Carolina. He is an evangelical Christian and holds fast to many conservative social views, like opposition to abortion rights....

But if candidates like Mr. Shuler do help the Democrats gain majority control of Congress, it could come at a political price, which may include tensions in the party between its new centrists and its more liberal political base.

While Democratic leaders have gone to great lengths to promote the views of these candidates, some, like Mr. Shuler, have views on issues like gun control and abortion that are far out of step with the prevailing views of the Democrats who control the party. On some issues, they may even be expected to side with Republicans and the Bush White House.

Democratic officials said they did not set out with the intention of finding moderates to run. Instead, as they searched for candidates with the greatest possibility of winning against Republicans, they said, they wound up with a number who reflected more moderate views....

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/30/us/politics/30dems.ht...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. This paragraph...
"Democratic officials said they did not set out with the intention of finding moderates to run. Instead, as they searched for candidates with the greatest possibility of winning against Republicans, they said, they wound up with a number who reflected more moderate views."

is a bunch of hogwash. I know of 2 for sure, maybe 3 races in Florida where they picked by hand...very moderate to conservative...on purpose.

Rahm courted Heath for months, I have an account somewhere of how he hounded him. Pretty sure I am right, that is was Heath Shuler. Will check.

Yes, they did pick them for just that reason. Two of the ones picked here are/were Republicans.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
19. I'm glad they did it, and I'm glad they did it on purpose
The candidates in most of the House Seats we're expected to pick up have been endorsed by the Blue Dogs or the DLC. Like I've been saying all along - we win the house, it becomes a centrist congress.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #19
50. sacriledge!
You're glad that the voters prefer our candidate!! Damn you, Damn you all to hell!!! :sarcasm:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
57. They were PICKED by the centrists and others forced out of the races.
And then to claim they were the choice is a false statement.

They were handpicked by the committees, and we are told to vote for them or not be good Democrats.

And you are bragging about that?
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. He beat the Cowboys IN Dallas, so I'd vote for him no matter what.
I know, shallow, but how I hate the Cowboys...
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. This is dishonest framing
Not that we haven't seen it before, and won't see it again...

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. Downwithtyranny has an opinion on this.
http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2006/10/rahm-rainma...

As I have said several times...women and gays are the most obvious victims of this strategy...immigrants may be as well.

When we try to pander, we all suffer.
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BluegrassDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Pander?
Suppose they actually believe in those issues? Does that not make them eligible to run as a Democrat? A lot of liberals are against illegal immigration, particularly black people who are most affected economically by illegal immigration.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. If they believe that gays should not have equal rights...
if they believe women are not entitled to equal rights in every way, then they are more Republican than Democrat.
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JamesJoyce Donating Member (47 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. How do you think Dean
was supposed to win the guys with Confederate flags in pickup trucks? Certainly not by maintaining the party orthodoxy and confining the party tent.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. By speaking of what are really true values....not faux ones.
Values like health care, for one. Values of not taking a country to war based on lies.

Some who vote for Bush and his ilk do so out of false sense of security, and they actually vote against their best interests. They talk about their Christian president while he screws them by taking their health care away.

So called values like being against gays, or preventing women from having birth control and abortions as well, which in effect would keep them pregnant and barefoot...imposing the male dominance.

Real values plus false values...Dean had the courage to speak up for these real values. And his own party hired people to trail him around with confederate flags.

He is one of the few I trust in the party now.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Oh, and welcome to DU.
:hi:

Our party is coming to a crossroads not long after the elections are over. It will either go the way of the people and their needs, or it will go the way of the corporations who bought the Republicans and are now buying the Democrats.

We are going to be seeing some things changing after the election. No more talking down to those of us who are citizens and voters.
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BluegrassDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. So you're saying someone has to pro-choice
and for gay marriage in order to run for office in all 50 states?

I love the idealism of many in our party, but after a while, you gotta use realism.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
58. So you are saying that you don't think they are important...
see what I mean? If you go down that road of picking and choosing who gets rights and who doesn't, then where does it stop?

I find it scary that some think they should control the reproductive choices of my daughters. I am older and not my concern, but I care about the rights of others.

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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. Is it better to have some say in the government....
or continue to have no sway at all...

that, is basically your choice...
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Same choice as in 04. I have voted already this week...
for Democrats. What happens after this is up to my party. If one is going to be like the other in voting for war, voting against women, being anti-gay...then I will think about some things.

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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Well stated...
I voted yesterday....
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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #9
33. "If one is going to be like the other" - I'm afraid it already is
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 12:30 PM by DancingBear
Just look - people here actually BELIEVE the hogwash that southern states have to fed Republican-lite pablum dressed up in a Donkey suit.

It is one of the most asinine political beliefs I have ever witnessed, and like a self-fulfilling prophecy if you give someone "X" and NEVER provide the option for "Y" then all the "X" folks say "see - told ya!"

Now, with people llike Casey and Ford running, this party has NO chance to recast itself in FDR guise.

If they win, it will be "X" for everyone, and superficial change (change beng used in the loosest possible sense) is all you will see.

This is why the whole "as long as he/she's a Dem" bullshit rings so hollow when it comes to the dreaded DINO.

These folks AREN"T Democrats - never have been, never will be.

They havn't a clue what a means to be a real Democrat anymore.

Sadly, neither do many here.

Oh, and the whole "when we get control of Congress" line - laughable.

Will there be a "post-election" sale on spines?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #33
41. They were handpicked so they could be pointed to as "trophies"
for the right if they win. And since others were sort of encouraged to leave the races because the money dried up...well, they will probably win.
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DancingBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #33
51. "sort of encouraged"
Good line. :)

But you see, it's OK when the "good guys" do that.

Or so they want me to believe.

Sleaze ain't sleaze if your side wins.

Ah, ain't it good to be honest??

Hee, hee.
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
28. When we lose, we all suffer.
We're much more likely to turn public opinion if we have the megaphone.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
6. We are lucky Ms Tauscher will keep us from running off the cliff.
This group is going to be fighting the people of the party more than they are the Republicans. If they keep the party out of the hands of women who think it is their right to have an abortion, and gays who think they have a right to equal right...then we won't be as likely to drive them off a cliff.

"Representative Ellen O. Tauscher of California, a co-chairwoman of the 47-member New Democrat Coalition, said that 27 of the top 40 contested House seats were being pursued by Democrats who have pledged to become members of the group, which says its chief issues are national security and fiscal responsibility.

I think theres tremendous agreement and awareness that getting the majority and running over the left cliff is what our Republican opponents would dearly love, Ms. Tauscher said, adding that this was something weve got to fight.

The centrist movement was embodied by former President Bill Clinton, who rose to prominence through the Democratic Leadership Council, which embraced a so-called third way of politics and eschewed what it saw as outdated liberalism."
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
11. This is a conservative district. We're not going to win it with a Barbara Boxer
As long as Shuler votes for Pelosi I'm fine with him.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. How NC votes affects all of us.
It was ok when Michael J. Fox said that about Missouri and stem-cell research. But close to home we all excuse these stances that hurt many groups in our party. Yet we continue to excuse.

I voted Democratic this time. You should vote Democratic also. Then we will see just how few rights we have left.

After all they have already given Bush his agenda.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. So we should make sure we lose in SC?
:eyes:
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BluegrassDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. A voice of reason!
Thanks Butterfly! As long as he votes for Pelosi for speaker, I can live with him representing the 11th district of N.C.
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enough already Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
49. If he votes with Pelosi, he won't get reelected
Now, what choice do you think Shuler will make?
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ButterflyBlood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-31-06 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #49
61. I said vote FOR Pelosi
I'm perfectly fine with anyone who'll vote to make Pelosi Speaker as long as they aren't a complete asshole who sells out the party like Zell Miller. And there is a huge difference between Zell Miller and Dems who are a bit more conservative than us.

It's an either an extremely corrupt Repuke who'll vote for the same corrupt Repuke leadership or Shuler. Take your pick.
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unfrigginreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 04:21 AM
Response to Original message
18. Fine we'll take the majority and work on change in the next primaries
Look we did it with Joe Lieberman even though he is expected to win as an independent. Our time is coming and I have no doubt that we'll see a Dean like makeup of the congress ovewr the next two years
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. that would be a complete waste of your energy
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 05:32 AM by wyldwolf
These centrist Democrats are winning in these districts because they are centrist. Why waste you energy trying to remove them the next go 'round? These districts simply will NOT elect leftwing "progressives."

Look what you did to Joe Lieberman? You took out perhaps the weakest of the herd. You couldn't do it to Cantwell. You damn sure couldn't do it to Clinton (and her much more liberal opponent in the primaries mocked MoveOn for it.)

And hey, one of the most HATED men in the netroots, Rahm Emanuel, is expected to cruise to re-election. Did you take him out? Did you even try?



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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 05:11 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Thank you- your reply was spot-on accurate
ESPECIALLY with the house race we're gonna find democrats all over the board ideology. Health Shular is not my representative, he's the representative of Western NC. And I posted about Heath Shular running (I was shocked to see a sports jock run as a democrat) and I had several DUers post about campaigning for him since it was their district.

And to be honest, I have what could be considered a 'liberal' republican as my representative (Mike Castle). I think I'd rather have Heath Shuler represent me because at least he'll help get John Conyers in that House Judicary chair position.
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unfrigginreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 05:39 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Our time is coming wyldwolf
We may not be there yet this go round but we're much further along than we were 2 years ago an I suspect we'll be much further along two years hence. We're taking our contry back and that's not by being republican light
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. you've been saying that for close to 60 years
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 06:57 AM by wyldwolf
You thought forming a new "progressive party" in 1948 to run against Harry Truman was "your time."

You thought challenging JFK (at the convention of all places) was "your time."

You thought it was "your time" when George McGovern changed the nominating procedures to favor "progressives."

You sure sent a message in 1980 and 2000!

Here is simple fact. You can't "take back" something you never had.

There are parts of the country that will NEVER elect leftwing "progressives" mainly because most of the country sit right here in the middle with me.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 05:09 AM
Response to Original message
21. So they're saying Western NC needs to run a candidate that I, a....
Northeast Liberal would approve.

How about the best candidate to represent Western NC runs for office.

Shame on the NYTimes to write an article that serves no purpose but to create division within the democratic party
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dad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #21
37. and the liberals in western NC get no representation
Tell me, does the Republican running in your district sound like a Democrat?
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Ideologies don't get automatic representation.
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 01:22 PM by wyldwolf
They have to earn it at the ballot box.
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Jax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #37
59. What a great question
don't hold your breath for a straight answer.

My guess is the phony right wing DLCers get about 22 percent of the vote when they run against real repubs.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
26. Is this even true? IN CA 11, which we should pick up if there's
no hanky panky, the Dem candidate is not running to the right. He just invited Bush to come out again to campaign for Pombo to remind people that they both are happy with corruption in government.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
27. Here's an idea: Shut the fuck up until we win the election.
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 09:33 AM by geek tragedy
Then we can debate the flaws of a Democratic majority with dissenting views inside it.

Until we actually take control of Congress away from the Republicans, there's no such thing as an unnecessary victory over a Republican.

Any Democrat over any Republican. Rinse, repeat, and stfu.

P.S. Nancy Pelosi will decide which legislation gets voted on, not Heath Shuler.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
29. Booman has a good diary up today....for after the primaries.
I like Booman. He does not fit a particular spot on the scale of liberal moderate centrist whatever. I guess that may be why I usually relate to his posts pretty well.

You won't understand the snip unless you read the whole post.

http://www2.boomantribune.com/story/2006/10/30/10464/51...

First he mentions Ellen Tauschers attack on the "left" this week.

"I think there's tremendous agreement and awareness that getting the majority and running over the left cliff is what our Republican opponents would dearly love," Ms. Tauscher said, adding that this was something "we've got to fight."


He then has this to say.


The young monk wonders what we are doing sullying our principles by carrying people like Ford, Casey Jr., and Heath Schuler across the stream. The old monk says, I have already put them down, but you are still carrying them.

After November 7th, the netroots, at least people like Stoller, Bowers, and me, will not be carrying these people over the water. We will have moved on...to defeating them in their next primaries."


So I voted, so did my hubby. We voted for every Democrat. We voted for two very proudly, and we voted for the others out of a sense of duty.


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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. well, it is a good fantasy diary.
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 12:18 PM by wyldwolf
Imagine people like Stoller, Bowers, and Booman claiming to have done something that, in reality, the voters in Casey and Ford's state did.

The netroots defeating anyone else in the primaries is a pipe dream - especially in a red state or a state that votes red.

The second time this morning I've seen a "progressive" practically admit that centrists will rule this year but threaten to "take them out" next time. LOL!
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. I am glad you are here for us, WW, and that you can keep us humble.
I think probably you don't really have an idea of it all. So I won't worry right now.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. "progressives" have only been saying it for 60 years
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 12:28 PM by wyldwolf
Taking out the weakest in the herd in primary in a blue state is nothing like taking on a Clinton or a Biden or even Ford, Webb, and Casey should they win.

My prediction? If Lieberman (and Ford and Casey) wins, progressive purists will again be reduced to non-player status. The Koses and Sirotas of the world will sink into a deep depression.

Hey! Ya know the majority of Dem House candidates have pledged to joining the DLC or Blue Dogs... right?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Lieberman will win..and Ford and Casey. And for a while you can continue..
to gloat.

It is so odd to see you gloating here all the time. I wonder if you really deep down inside understand what is happening?

I think you are so happy to see any progressive idea or person shot down that it no longer occurs to you that real people are being seriously harmed.

I think most people here agree with me but they are afraid to say so when you do this.

Things have been different this election. We realize for the first time that these candidates who are against the progressive ideals have been handpicked just to win...not to stand up for the people in the party but just to win.

Things are changing. The tone of some of those who look down on average people is getting just like that of the Rove group. In fact it started back in 2003. Put people down by making them seem insignificant.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

But it is changing.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. LOL! Let's take this up one point at a time
I wonder if you really deep down inside understand what is happening?

I do. People are tired of the shrill "my way or the highway" rhetoric from the left and the right, and are voting accordingly.

I think you are so happy to see any progressive idea or person shot down that it no longer occurs to you that real people are being seriously harmed.

Actually, I'm only happy to see the angry left shot down. IF they would learn to use the political process and actually learn to propose alternatives instead of constantly complaining about what we have, they might gain some traction.

I think most people here agree with me but they are afraid to say so when you do this.

What? Discuss something with real facts instead of truthiness and emotions?

Things have been different this election. We realize for the first time that these candidates who are against the progressive ideals have been handpicked just to win...not to stand up for the people in the party but just to win.

No, ma'am. It has always been that way. Newcomers just haven't realized it. Of course candidates are handpicked to win. What do you think would happen if Dennis Kucinich ran in Tennessee or Virginia? And what, pray tell, are "progressive ideals" and who defines them? Further, where has it been written or previously established that the Democratic party must adhere to or cater to "progressive ideals."

And why do you always link your journal as some sort of evidence? THAT is beyond hysterical.





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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. "Actually, I'm only happy to see the angry left shot down." How sad..
you said that.

You gave yourself away as to how you really feel about people.

How sad. And you get to keep doing it all the time.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. damn right I said it.
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 01:25 PM by wyldwolf
You know, after the 2000 election, a lot of Democrats found their way to DU in hopes of conversing with like-minded people. Instead, a lot of us were attacked as "DINOS" and "Republican-lite."

We were told, time and time again, that our mindset - the mindset of Truman, Kennedy, Clinton, and a littany of the most successful and electorally popular Democrats' - was outdated, irrelevant.

Well, when it came to cash in the chips, us "DINOS" are again the bankers for the Democratic party.

Yes, I'm looking forward to seeing KOS, Sirota, Arriana, and the rest desperately spin the Dems victory next Tuesday as anything different than what it will be - a rejection of both the far right and far left. And yes, I'll gloat here AND the rightwing sites.


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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. You are the "bankers" for the party? It's all about effing money to you?
What a pity, what a shame.

What a nasty post that was.

I am so glad you are rich. I'm just average and proud of it.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. LOL! I see metaphors are lost on you.
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 01:37 PM by wyldwolf
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. I am not as bright as you are.
I am just average. I don't pretend to fund the party either. I just care about people.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. I learned what metaphors were in third grade
By your reaction to my post, apparently you did not.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. I only taught 1st through 6th grades for over 30 years...
I never learned such stuff as that.

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. yet you missed the lesson on "metaphors."
Look it up.

Then you will see how ludicrous your literal perception of my "banker" metaphor was. But you still have time to edit!
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
46. And Repubs are running to the left in alot of other close races
Oh, they forgot to mention that. :eyes:
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. ...and meeting in the sensible center
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. Hey wolf, I have a question...
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 03:45 PM by Solon
What is the "sensible center"? I ask this because, as far as I can tell, the center is as ambiguous as either the left or the right. I mean, a Social liberal who is economically to the right could be considered a moderate, but a candidate who is socially conservative and economically liberal isn't going to appeal to them, yet they would be just as moderate. Isn't that correct?

If so, how do you appeal to both?
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. The sensible center
Is where people discuss issues with an open mind and are willing to use facts and reality to temper ideological beliefs. Reality includes maintaining a governing coalition as well as other realities.

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. exactly. Ideology is only a part of it.
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 04:00 PM by wyldwolf
You don't find fierce partisans willing to discuss issues to find a workable solution.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Problem, as I see it, is that the center can be just as ideological...
in spite of facts. I could give a classic example with abortion. I've debated self proclaimed centrists on abortions, they claim to be pro-choice, but support legislating late term abortions cause that's the "moderate" position.

My problem stems from the fact that ALL late term abortions are done for medically necessary reasons, Doctor ethics boards should govern the proper use of the procedure, NOT legislatures. Any LEGAL blocs on this particular procedure makes about as much sense to me as legislating open-heart surgeries, or any other medical procedure.

See my conundrum, in real terms, I could, technically, support a candidate who is reality based as in they actually use FACTS to figure out policy. I deplore "faith based" governing.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. Very well said. This was a made up position by the right wing
ideologues, and many of our centrist and Southern Democrats went along for the ride. When Dr. Dean tried to point out the fallacies of this notion, and how it could put doctors on guard, fearful of lawsuits...they crucified him.

I share your conundrum.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #55
60. it takes time
to get the facts out when you don't have any power in either the legislature or the WH. Secondly it seems unlikely that issue would come to the floor in a Democratic house.
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