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Thom Hartman on Mother Jones: GOP will keep both houses

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j_gregory1948 Donating Member (42 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 02:58 PM
Original message
Thom Hartman on Mother Jones: GOP will keep both houses
He said it just now on AAR radio, citing Diebold and voter intimidation among other things, I don't have a link. He added that 06 has been stolen months ago, voter turnout will mean shit.

Now if I post this here with my low post count (as I have), I am called a Rove Propagandist and a Freeper.

The most dangerous thinking against Dems right now is the stupidity of a huge turnout keeping Repugs from stealing it again. That's incredibly retarded. 2004 saw lines and lines of Dems trying to vote in gigantic numbers.

The only solution is having each Dem candidate not concede and FIGHT tooth and nail immediately after the election if it is stolen. If Kerry's example is followed, all will be lost, AGAIN.



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kansasblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm with you! (there was I time I had just 36 post)
Edited on Sun Oct-29-06 03:05 PM by kansasblue
People have to go vote and feel the pain as there vote is block, flipped or Diebolded.

I agree the most important thing is for the candidate to fight. When the candidate themselves give in.... somewhat fairly enough the media and their follows will follow.

Fight!

To be honest I can't give to canidates for that very reason. Not saying others shouldn't, I'm saying my money is better spent on vote projection groups. Bradblog.com, EFF.org, verifiedvoting. etc. Debra Bowen and Clint Curtis are good choices too. They know the equipment is rigged.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
2. Are you saying voter turnout doesn't matter?
If you are, that's what's dumb.
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j_gregory1948 Donating Member (42 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I am not, brainy
Edited on Sun Oct-29-06 03:09 PM by j_gregory1948
did you read my post? Thom Hartman is.
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rockymountaindem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. It sounds like you're in agreement with Hartman
From your OP and post #8.

Thanks for the compliment though.
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j_gregory1948 Donating Member (42 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. I am in agreement with him,
Republicans steal elections and they do it SUCCESSFULLY.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. What Hartmann's saying is plausible. We VOTE and STAY AWARE because
we may be in a bigger battle AFTER the votes are tallied.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #25
41. Boehner laying predicate for election theft--"Independents don't show up for mid-term elections!"
This certainly caught my attention! Boehner was on THIS WEEK suggesting this would happen.

The problem is that the software could be programmed to flip the vote to ensure they win, and there would be no way to prove it. This is what concerns me mightily, as the Bush administration cannot afford to lose control of the Congress.
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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #25
55. GOTV! It is easy and all it takes is an hour - I just finished 2hrs - give it a try!
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. voter turnout was huge in 2004. It was democratic. They stole the
eleciotn. now their machines are everywhere. Much easier to steal this one than the last one, which they stole with ease.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. yes, I agree. We need to be pressing those dems right now!
Very few of them have the courage to even ask for recounts.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. GET OUT THE VOTE!
Overwhelm the public with exposure. Plant the seed of change in the people's heads so that when they try stealing it, they all know something went wrong.
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j_gregory1948 Donating Member (42 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. it'll be too late, sorry
I heard the same talk in 2002 and 2004.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I look forward to
chatting with you on Nov. 8th. I'm hardly the optimistic sort, but I believe that Thom is wrong, and dems will take back the House, gaining upward of 20 seats. No, I don't think we'll get the Senate, but we will make inroads.
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:28 PM
Original message
I'm an optimistic pessimist, too.
You can ask anyone--I'm cynical as hell. But I think we're gonna win big on the 7th. In both houses. I already have my "Sparkling Grape Juice" ready to go.
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Get Lost Then
You are here to discourage folks from voting.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
33. stepnw1f..i agree 100%..and i do not trust Hartman!! n/t
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
59. that's really uncool
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KingFlorez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. We don't need crazy defeatist talk
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
52. It isn't defeatist
We need a plan to make any election where large numbers of people are not allowed to vote invalid, and to get our candidates to agree to never concede if those circumstances occur. If we won't defend our own voters, we're not worth shit.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. spot on!
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freeplessinseattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
34. but this time there is even greater
passion and point spreads between candidates. a 5% exit poll diff vs double digit dfferences is harder to ignore.

don't fall into teh self-fulfilling prophecy trap.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. If the GOP holds the House (and it's beginning to look like the Senate, too)
If the GOP holds the House (and it's beginning to look like the Senate, too), then we can be sure the reason is something like Diebold and voter intimidation.

If the election were held tomorrow, and the Republicans hang on, we have every right to assue massive fraud was the reason. We shall respond appropriately, as did the Ukrainian people last year.



Kiev, 2005
Photo: Ukrainian Embassy, Belgium

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bperci108 Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. Now THAT'S a sight to behold....
Now if it was just in every city and town in the US....


...with "Impeach the War Criminal!" etc on the signs....

...with red and red-and-black flags flying along with the Stars and Stripes...

...and a Democratically-controlled House and Senate to go with it.



Hey - I can dream, can't I? :evilgrin:


As Steve Earle said: "The Revolution Starts Now."


:patriot:


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KingFlorez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. What nonsense
I'm sick of hearing about how the Republicans will steal the election.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
KingFlorez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. It's not truth, it's defeatism
And it seems like some people want the Democrats to lose.
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j_gregory1948 Donating Member (42 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. what part of
"Republicans steal elections" don't you understand?

It's not defeatism, it's TRUTH.
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bperci108 Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. What part of "NEVER GIVE UP!" don't YOU understand?
Go peddle your defeatism and weak-willed "support" elsewhere...


FreeptardVille would appreciate your input, I'm sure.


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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #30
50. reality checks are good mental hygiene
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KingFlorez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. The election hasn't happened yet
You're attitude is that the election is over before the votes are cast because Republicans are going to steal it.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
35. ohhhh pleaseeeeeeeeeee..enough of the defeatism!..get out
and work your ass if that is what you think,..we do not need anymore armchair defeatists!


go make phone calls ..do something positive..instead of posting defeatist crap here..

go stuff envelopes..or volunteer to drive seniors to the polls or handicapped..do something!

fly
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #35
51. the OP *is* doing something positive, it's not easy to deliver this
message... and... it's not the OP who was the original author of the statement. it was THOM HARTMANN... so maybe he should take *his* sorry freeper message and shove it?
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enough already Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #9
61. The truth can be very inconvenient for some to hear
They've done it before, they are no doubt going to try again.
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4dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
12. If we are not ready to take to the streets
what good we??
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
16. If we win the house who do we blame that on?
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
18. Our Country Has Been Stolen
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
19. Damn, and I already voted...
What a waste....
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:22 PM
Response to Original message
20. 
The repukes have gotten away with steeling elections in the past. We have to talk about it.

We cant let them get away with it---not again.

Great post j_gregory, and welcome :)
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gumby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
22. I think Thom Hartman is pretty smart.
I, for one, think the election has a much better than 50/50 chance of being stolen again.

The M$M might allow the Democrats to take the House, but the Senate will remain safe for the GOP.

Having read post after post chastising those who think these questions are defeatist and demoralizing, I've kept my keyboard to myself. However, I am Very pessimistic. And I BLAME the Democrats. They have basically said and done squat since Bush stole the election in 2000. The Diebold premiere was in Georgia 2002 where the Rethugs won "surprising" victories. The Democrats remained silent. Then came Ohio (and other states) in 2004. Except for Barbara Boxer, the Democrats were again silent.

All that bullshit about 'values voters' and the supposed GOP GOTV Machine has been proven to be incompatible with the statistics. The Democratic Party has yet to stand up on its hind legs and bray about the stolen elections. I'm quite amazed that they think it won't happen again.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
40. We need to fight any shenanigans AND make election reform the #1 priority
when we retake the congress.
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Mme. Defarge Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
44. Sadly,
I agree with you.

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:25 PM
Response to Original message
23. Kerry didn't have two years of electronic machine fraud in corpmedia
Donna Brazile DID and its HER Office of Voter Integrity that can't just COMPLAIN about what the RNC and its operatives do - it's HER JOB TO COUNTER those moves and expose them to public scrutiny.

She didn't do it the four years before 2004, and she has been given two years now to assure it wouldn't happen in 2006.

Whatever happens next week, Hartmann is RIGHT that it was stolen in the many months BEFORE the electin.

The difference is that too many people in the media are now aware of it, but I also expect that RNC has some diversionary plans with some machines rigged that trace back to unwitting Democrats.
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EST Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
27. Hartman's audience is not the same as DU.
I would like to think he's trying, this near the deadline, to piss some people off.

It might be a good tactic, assuming a particular audience and that one knows one's audience, to get voters mad enough and get them to exorcise their anger by getting serious about the polls and the new republicans' attempts to rob them of their citizenship franchise and to do something about it.
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NEDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:28 PM
Response to Original message
28. Now where was that ignore button again......
If you want to give up, go ahead, but I'm not going to.

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pink-o Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
29. Howard Dean on Ed Schultz said:
...that they have reps standing by for election night. Anyone who observes voter shenanigans going on IN ANY PRECINCT ANYWHERE IN AMERICA must call 1-800-DEM-VOTE and there'll be legal representation immediately down at the polling place.

It's unbelievable to me that Kerry let Ohio go without protest 2 years ago, especially after the Florida theft in 2000. But 3 strikes means you're out! And I've already let my 2 senators and one rep (who BTW are Feinstein, Boxer and Pelosi) know that if Dems roll over this time, my many friends and I will NEVER vote for them again.

We must all be prepared to do the same.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
32. I am sick of Thom Hartman..he still dances with
Bev Harris..enough said for me!!
And unlike others i remember when Mike Malloy was screwed by Hartman..when the union network shut down...and i will never forget that!!

Malloy is too much a gentleman to bring it up.but i will never forget it!!

Like Hartman if you will..but i do not trust the man!!

fly
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
36. 
I always vote democrat. BUT, I refuse to vote during a primary for any of the 04 candidates who failed to address election fraud or Bushs war profiteering. Im a New Yorker who voted against Hillary in the last primary election.

We need new blood in the democratic party. There are very few politicians we have now willing to put their necks on the line for us. They dont deserve our support.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:48 PM
Response to Original message
37. Ugh. Now I know why there was something in my gut that I didn't
Edited on Sun Oct-29-06 03:57 PM by Kahuna
like about him. He's such a smarty-pants that he has to go on record now for his ego, just so he can say I told you so. Even if his "prediction" causes voters to stay home, thereby being a self-fulfilling prophecy. Ugh. Just, ugh!
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #37
57. explain how this will keep voters home
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
38. Before the election, the only thing that makes sense is GOTV. It is
of course reasonable to expect dirty tricks and another stolen election from the Thugs. But before the election, the only thing that makes sense is working on the election. The day after the election -- well, that's another story ...
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tblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
39. I'd like to read/hear what exactly Hartmann said
What's his proof, and what did he propose we do about it?
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lordsummerisle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #39
43. I'd also like to hear what Thom said
one of the things I like about him is that he often provides possible solutions to problems...
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pa28 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
42. Staying home will just make it easier to rig. Don't be tempted.
Democrats would crawl over broken glass to vote in this election. We'll turn out in massive numbers and when they try to steal it again election fraud will be all the more apparent.

If we don't turn out they may actually win without fraud. Not much of a leg to stand on if you want to argue on Nov. 8th.

Our leaders have chosen not to confront this issue directly so we have to take some ownership of this ourselves.

Vote, volunteer and video what you see.

http://www.videothevote.org/
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nicknameless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
45. Screw Hartmann and his defeatist predictions.
What's to trust about someone who devotes countless air time hours to reich-wing interviews.
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
46. "06 has been stolen months ago" I can't buy that. This election was made
Edited on Sun Oct-29-06 04:10 PM by Mountainman
in the last few weeks. Months ago no one would have thought the Dems could win either House. With that in mind, how could anyone make a plan based on what we see now? No one could rig 30 some elections this late in the game. 2004 and 2000 could be stolen because they were presidential elections with the electoral college system and with such a close race. This is a much different ball game. These are local elections where stealing one or two states does not turn the election in your favor.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #46
56. voter purges happened months ago.
people won't find out until they get to the polls... and if it doesn't happen to you personally, it's going to be difficult to imagine that it could happen at all.

Florida 2000 -- 90,000+ black and low income voters PURGED months before the election.

90,000.

what was the final spread? 600 votes?

the theivery has been going on for a LONG time.
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fasttense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
47. I heard Thom Hartman's show too and
though you are correct he stated he believes the votes will be stolen, he also said he had already voted. So, like many Dems, he's a realist. He votes and keeps his fingers cross that his vote will be accurately counted.
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Terre Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. Thom is pretty confident
that his Oregon vote-by-mail ballot will be counted accurately. It's the other states, with the touch-screen machines, that worries him.

I love Thom, but of the 10 ballot measures we have to vote on this time, he only voted on 4 of them. That surprised and bothered me a bit.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #47
54. and then what?
vote.

cross fingers.

hope.

that's a long way from what i have in mind in terms of "democracy."
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
48. RIGHT ON! 'bout damn time someone said it !!!!!!!
thank you low-post-count dude! new blood is a very good thing!

yeah yeah... we are ALL going to the polls. and yeah yeah, we are going to stand in line, no matter how long... blah blah blah... THERE IS NOTHING that will keep us, THE FAITHFUL, from the polls. so lets just f'in get over this POLLYANNA bullshit --- that we can't state the obvious for FEAR of DISCOURAGINGn people from the polls.

that's not going to happen. first of all -- we don't have that much meme-power. if we did, we'd already have AUDITED PAPER BALLOTS.

we are going to lose some major races and it's going to be EXPLAINED as the phenomena of muscular negative campaigning! just how Max Cleland's loss was explained as his alignment with Osama and Saddam! Harold Ford? it'll be close, but in the end the loss will be explained as the result of the hick Tennessee voter falling for the race-baiting ad from the RNC.

so go ahead and bookmark this and check back on wednesday... we AREN'T going to win right off the bat. IF we win, it'll be because we FIGHT FOR IT.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
49. GOtV and presevere through the long lines that Republicans give us.
That is our job from now until election day. We make it harder for them to steal votes by doing what we can outside of the black box voting machines. And after the election, if we haven't won the house, all the media networks will be wondering why Democrats didn't win the House. And we cite the huge turnout. And we cite the exit polls. And we destroy the electronic vote theft machines by passing a strong federal bill against them and stonewalling everything else until it is passed.

Many Republicans do not want to win by vote theft. We appeal to them in passing this bill.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
60. Broward Co., FL: Votes for Democrats are registering for Republicans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


Several South Florida voters say the choices they touched on the electronic screens were not the ones that appeared on the review screen -- the final voting step.
Election officials say they aren't aware of any serious voting issues. But in Broward County, for example, they don't know how widespread the machine problems are because there's no process for poll workers to quickly report minor issues and no central database of machine problems.

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NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
62. And we can't say it was stolen if we don't show up and vote!
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
63. So long, concern troll!
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
64. I'm locking this thread
the original poster of this thread has been banned .
Moderators see no need to leave it open .

proud patriot Moderator
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