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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:20 PM
Original message
A CONFESSION from a FORMER fan of GW Bush...
I believe in limited government. I'm a fiscal conservative with libertarian leanings, but liberal on social issues--what used to be called a Blue Dog Democrat. The kind that turned the South red and ushered in the Reagan Revolution. The kind that pulled Clinton towards the right and turned on Al Gore for being "too liberal."

In 1994, I voted for Democrats in local races, but for Republicans in national races, and I celebrated Newt Gingrich's Contract with America.

In 2000, I had a "W1" (Dubya Won) sign in the back window of my pickup truck.

After September 11, 2001, I felt genuine warmth and admiration for our president.

Since that time, I've turned around 180 degrees.

In 2003, I felt a distinct unease as we celebrated "Shock and Awe," as if live video of thousands of innocent civilians dying was a video game with a Toby Keith soundtrack.

By 2004, I was praying for Kerry to win.

In 2006, I'm so disgusted by the Republican Party that I'd sell my soul to the Devil (Dick Cheney) if it meant the Democrats would take both houses of Congress.

What they did to the Schiavos, what they've done in Iraq, what they've done to the Constitution and the rule of law, and what they've done to the working and middle classes while enriching their elitist croneys is just unconscienable. What they've FAILED to do on global warming, on the minimum wage, on health care and poverty, is at least as unconscienable.

Thank God for public servants like the soldiers using the whistleblower statutes to demand an end to the unjust, unnecessary, unwinnable war in Iraq; for public servants like the generals who've come out and criticized the arrogance and incompetence of the Bush cabal; and for public servants like those in the Justice Dept., SEC, and on Congressional staffs who are holding and will continue to hold accountable the criminals in this monumentally corrupt misadministration.

Everything is on the line a week from Tuesday.

I've been wrong in the past (VERY wrong), and will be again in the future.

But when it comes to George Bush and the cynical, self-serving, self-aggrandizing, bloodthirsty, warmongering, anti-Constitution Republicans who've followed his lead in undermining decency and the rule of law in our country, and restraint and the rule of international law and morality overseas, I have no doubt whatsoever who's right and who's wrong.

We're at war within our borders now, and the stakes couldn't be higher.

Newsprism

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EmperorHasNoClothes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. It's great to read this
I feel like the whole country has been asleep for the past 10 years. Hopefully there are many others just like you.
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. I think we're underestimating the disillusionment among Republicans
who feel that Bush has betrayed conservative values, especially by expanding the government on an unprecedented scale, and at a rate not seen since FDR had a REAL World War and a Depression to deal with.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. I'm thinking so too. I think these voters will either stay home or
vote for Dems to send a very strong message. I also think that the repubs have gone too far in pandering to the religious "wrong." That's got to be a real turn off to fiscal conservatives who are socially moderate like yourself. I truthfully don't understand how old time conservatives have tolerated the religous wrong for this long. Hopefully they will deliver a resounding message to falwell, dobson et als on Nov. 7th. Here's hoping. :toast:
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #22
37. I've never understood how the right coopted so many Christians
It's not like Jesus was the best friend of the wealthy...
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #37
41. In my opinion, it's because it's easier to go with supporting things...
that stop other people from doing things than having to take positive action, which requires real effort. It's much easier to say that you're being a good Christian by keeping Homosexuals from marrying than giving money or time to help those who need help. In their opinion, a Christian has to get his/her points in Heaven some way, and the former is the easier way, even though it's not anything that Christianity is truly about in any way, shape or form.

Of course, there are many Christians who really are walking the walk as well as talking the talk. I applaud them and thank them for their humanity.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #37
78. The religious right picks and chooses its scriptures.
Many on the religious right believe that God will reward their "virtue" with wealth, and that by believing in the religious right's view of God, they personally will be rewarded with wealth. They ignore the whole book of Job and the Beatitudes and the history of the Christian religion.

Also, some Christian churches have developed their own church run welfare systems. They support their own, while condemning government programs funded by taxes that support the poor regardless of religion. The Christian welfare programs are a means of controlling the lives and interfering in the lives of the poorer members of the churches. The generosity of the churches is not entirely for free, and it is not given based strictly on need.
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
83. Many are WAVERING....and this Confession should be......



.....emailed to every wavering, on-the-fence former Bush voter we all know....


Robert Parry (the Iran-Contra investigative reporter) has another great guest essay on his site Consortium News, that is a great ice-breaker in communicating with swing voters:

Why Conservatives Balk at GOP



Why Conservatives Balk at GOP

Editor's Note: George W. Bush frequently states that the U.S. government's highest duty is to protect the safety of Americans. But many traditional conservatives -- as well as many other Americans -- disagree with Bush's priority. They believe that the first responsibility of any President is to defend the Constitution and its guarantees of individual liberty............In this guest essay, William Frey, a founder of "Republicans for Humility," explains why he and other conservative Republicans are upset with the direction of the Bush administration and the GOP-controlled Congress:

"While principled liberals and conservatives have substantial differences regarding the interpretation and implementation of these principles, the tragic reality is that a power-drunk big government GOP establishment now threatens the very constitutional restraints that protect our liberties, our democracy, and our free and open society.......But it is the actual behavior of Republicans under this era of One Party Rule that has clearly demonstrated the tangible threat to the Rule of Law, to individual liberty, and to our constitutional system.

"Unlike today's win-at-all-costs GOP, many true conservatives believe that only a Democratic congressional victory will restore the balanced, divided, and representative government through which America has long maintained our values.

"And only a Democratic victory will allow the reflection within the Republican Party necessary for a reorientation to American democratic values....

Republicans now firmly in control of party machinery, addicted to power, and committed to a toxic authoritarian ideology they falsely call "conservative" will not be dislodged without a Democratic victory.

Today's GOP has lost its way.




Wavering former GOP voters in the 50 battleground districts would benefit from a timely email.









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rsmith6621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. I Know How You Feel......


Been there.....Done bush....and turned 180 myself......WTF was wrong with me....
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judaspriestess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
3. everyone makes mistakes
whats important is that we learn from them positively.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
4. I believe in limited government, too.
As a general rule, I would rather not see the government doing what the people could better do themselves. However, as we have seen recently with Katrina, government does play an important role.

I particularly believe it should be the function of government to help "level the playing field," in the areas of health care and education.

I would like to see less pork-barrel politics, and in theory I think a line-item veto would help with the problem.
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. Those pork barrels have been hoarded by the already rich at the expense
of those truly in need.

I agree with you 100% on education and health care--I'm all for universal health care. These two issues are too important to leave to the free market (especially a free market dominated by craven elitists.)
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roseBudd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #4
21. Regarding Katrina Walter Williams actually wrote that WalMart should do...
disasters since they stepped up with bottled water. Yes Walter those WalMart helcopters will come in handy when people are drowning in their attics
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JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
5. Great post
Edited on Sat Oct-28-06 06:33 PM by JeffR
And an object lesson for all of us - myself included - who despair sometimes about the possibility of America ever being able to mend itself again. Thanks!

:patriot:

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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
6. Just one thing. W didn't "1." He stole the election so that he and
Edited on Sat Oct-28-06 06:57 PM by Kahuna
the evil Dick could force their evil agenda. And you know what? Other than to rob our treasury dry and oust Saddam, I really am at a loss to explain why it was so important for them to steal the presidency. But the fact remains that they did.

Otherwise, great post!!!

:hi:

On edit: I hope that Republicans with "libertarian" leanings come to their senses and march to the polls on election day and cast their votes to throw the bums out. It is clear that the repubs are playing both sides of the republican base against the middle and lying to them all.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. ?
Dost thou miss the point?
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. ?
No. Do you?

The OP recanted a lot of his thoughts concerning W, but *I* unlike *u* don't ASSume that he realizes that W did indeed steal the election. I'm just keeping it totally real here.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. The conversion from the wrong side to the good side is the point
- what does bringing up the election stealing have to do with whether they voted for "W" or not?

One thing is not related to the other.
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Because I feel like it! Do you mind??? When was the last time
Edited on Sat Oct-28-06 07:19 PM by Kahuna
I asked your permission before I post!!! Back off.

And positively, my post was relative to the OP, in that he posted that he was glad that "W1." You're the one who went off topic by attributing words to me that I did not post, not me. Recognize! Where did I post that the OP voted for W or made an issue of it???? I DIDN'T!!
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. lol - no, you were way off topic
Nice technique though - nah nah nah nah nah - lol :eyes:
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Where did I post the the OP voted for W, and change the topic???
Edited on Sat Oct-28-06 07:23 PM by Kahuna
You're the clown doing that. Stating my opinion on the very first topic in the post is what posters do. He was glad that W1, and I pointed out that W didn't win. That's how we post on threads. Thought you knew that. What do you think, we're all stupid?? Everybody in this thread can read my post and only YOU will get from it what you did. :crazy:
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. It's irrelevant to his post that you believe W didn't win
That has nothing to do with anything. But don't ever admit that you were wrong, that would require humility.

One for you -> :crazy:
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Kahuna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Your opinion is irrelevant to the OP. So there.
Edited on Sat Oct-28-06 07:49 PM by Kahuna
Who died and left you boss? You should watch those authoritarian tendencies of yours. That could lead to voting republican. You've been paying attention well for the past several years I see. You accuse me of what YOU'RE guilty of. Nice try, but it won't work.

Furthermore, for as long as I live whenever someone says that W1, I will feel duty bound to correct that. If you don't like it, tough! Use the ignore feature. It works.
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nolabels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #35
75. I hope they try next one too, eventually they will get caught
We know them elections were stolen just like the REAL facts of 9/11 are starting to drip out. Eventually we will find out how bad and evil some have been.

I have faith in the truth because it's the only thing that hasn't been able to cheat me yet
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
7. Thanks for sharing this, my friend!
"'Shock and Awe', as if live video of thousands of innocent civilians dying was a video game with a Toby Keith soundtrack."

My sentiments exactly about that event - but I'd never seen it described so succinctly before.

K & R! :kick:
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. High praise coming from you, Nance!!!
Your posts always give me a lift and a laugh.

If I might return the favor:

Some herbally-inspired satirical short stories
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
24. Slowly I turned...
Toby Keith: "How Do You Like Me Now?"
Me: "Not so much."
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Change has come Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #24
65. oh. my. god.
:rofl:
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Patchuli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
39. I'll never forget the horror I felt
standing in the library at the little school I worked at with my librarian friend watching the tanks roll...she was former military and her jaw had dropped to her chest. We both were feeling so anguished and were crying. "What are they doing???!!!!" It was like they were so proud to go in and stomp the innocent. It felt like they thought they were 'paying the bad guys' back for 9/11 except that they were killing the wrong people! I had never felt ashamed to be American before that...

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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. Remoinded me of the "Nuke Iraq" bumperstickers from the first Gulf War
Bumpersticker foreign policy--who would have thought the White House would adopt it for real?
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Patchuli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. Initially, I had no idea who * was
and I didn't know a thing about him, honestly. But I immediately didn't like him. My gut reaction literally was he made me feel queasy. I always trust that first reaction.

I was a kid when Nixon was pulling his grand capers. I protested against him and the Viet Nam war in my own ways. I became political again after many years of happy ignorant bliss when the first election was stolen in 2000. I always voted but I never got into the process much other than to vote progressive. I am a pure political animal now! My sister who is a reforming repub also is freaking out now that she is seeing what is really going on. She told me "I knew that * was stupid, but I honestly didn't think he was *that* stupid!" I say good for both of you...better late than never!
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. Isn't it really starting to feel like 1974?
I may have to break out the paisley and bell bottoms.
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #47
56. The first I heard of him was the Carla Faye Tucker incident.
I couldn't understand why it was such a big issue that she was asking the Gov for clemency. Isn't that the last ditch effort of all death penalty cases?
Then I heard the full story that she had committed a really horrible crime and while she was in the pen, she "Found Jesus" and had turned her life around. Now she wasn't asking to be let off the hook for her crime, but she had been working with other prisoners and was helping them to turn their lives around. She wanted to continue doing her "calling" as an inmate inside the prison.
George Bush supposedly "Found Jesus" at age 40 and we are supposed to completely ignore any transgressions he had before that time. In fact he had his record scrubbed to make sure we ignored it.
Carla Faye didn't want Bush to give her a clean slate, but that's what Bush wanted for himself.
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Patchuli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #56
63. She asked to be spared and he mocked her,
he is no Christian. I feel the same for Karla as I felt for Tookie Williams. That execution would not let me sleep that night.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:. (Luke 6:36-37)
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
9. K&R
love to see a person's eyes open - even if it takes some time ...
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
11. There's no doubt the Republican Party was hijacked by a bunch of pretenders...
I can't speak to the apparent hypocrisy evinced by Newt and his ilk from the beginning. Of course, I was raised to distrust the Republicans anyway. As my Dad always told me "they're for the rich." And I was following along during the whole Iran/Contra scandal in the eighties, thinking that I didn't trust these wankers as far as I could throw a Buick. They're full of dirty tricks.
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. "By 2004, I was praying for Kerry to win."
Edited on Sat Oct-28-06 06:53 PM by Vickers
Just curious...did you vote for Kerry?

The reason I ask is, I have heard from at least two folks who have "seen the light" so to speak, where both wanted Kerry to win, or at least George to lose, but they STILL voted for George.

They just couldn't pull that Democratic lever.

Anyway, I wonder how many people then (and now) were/are disgusted with George and his ilk, but can't or didn't pull that Democratic lever because of gay marriage or abortion or whatever.

P.S. Please don't feel that I am questioning your conversion...I had my own epiphany back in 1988 (yes, I'm a reformed Repuke).

P.P.S. And I voted for Dukakis in 1988. :P
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. To be honest, I didn't vote at all
Been too disillusioned with the shitstem for too long to even register regularly.

Wild horses couldn't drag me away from the polls a week from Tuesday, though.
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SaveOurDemocracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
16. Being human, we make mistakes ...

...and they were very clever about hiding behind the curtain. Many well-meaning people were fooled, no sense looking back with regret ... let's move forward together. There's nothing more honest and admirable than someone willing to stand up and say, "I was wrong." You have my respect.



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YankeyMCC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
17. The difference between someone like yourself
and the (what is it now 29%?) that still support W is that you have taken a look at your own decisions and at the facts and have the intelligence to reexamine and adjust where you find it necessary and right.

We all make mistakes and truthfully few if any decisions are black and white and it's a mark of intelligence (not weakness or 'wishy-washiness' as the radical right would have people believe) that you learn from your past decisions.

Komander KooKooBananas certainly doesn't have the intelligence you've demonstrated.

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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Stay the course! And whatever you do, never EVER
ask for directions.

DUHbya suffers from the worst case of testosterone poisoning I've ever seen.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
25. Thank you for this! I have a question...
What is the best way to approach those who still don't get it?

Obviously, you've got a conscience to be able to distinguish right from wrong. What about those who are complacent because their lives happen to be good & unaffected, those who aren't able to feel compassion for those less fortunate? How do we get through to them?
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Don't be condescending, and don't get defensive when they go on offense. Remember
Reagan laughing and saying good-naturedly, "There you go again"?

Or Clinton's way of using that disarming lilt in his voice (which sounds a bit like Reagans, come to think of it.)

There are certainly some monsters out there who crawl in the sewage with Cheney, but most are just naive or blinded by partisanship and the seductive chorus of right wing demagogues.
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pacalo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #31
60. It's the naive ones & those who watch Fox News that I had in mind.
I know that coming on strong is wrong for me, so I tend to wait for an opening before I give my opinion. For instance, when my older brother told me about something he'd seen on Fox News, I said, "Oooh, Jim, you don't watch Fox News, do you? They're bought by this administration to serve their interests, so you're not really getting a fair perspective." Judging from his lack of response, I may have planted a seed.

Thanks for your tips!

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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
26. I'm glad you are here. These are serious times.
:thumbsup:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
29. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. NO! Never too late
You can feel sanctimonious about it if you like, but I'd prefer to see more and more people feel welcome to join us. Stolen elections aside, that is how you win elections, after all.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Never forgive, never forget!
That's what we are all about and that's how we're going to heal this country.

Right?

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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #29
36. You certainly live up to your name, thug
Do you have anything constructive or the least bit intelligent to add?
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Patchuli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #29
42. That was unnecessary
but seeing that you're a 'Thug,' I guess it's no surprise? :sarcasm:

Seriously, forgiveness is the least we can give someone who has the strength of character to admit they were wrong. Let's look to the positive side...I've had enough negativity to last the rest of my years.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #29
54. Your opinion is indeed humble. It has much to be humble about.
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #54
57. In your humble opinion. nt
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
34. Glad to have you here.
I think many "true" Republicans...and I think I mean conservatives, since to me they seem to be two completely different animals these days..are feeling the way you do, and I for one welcome the honest and forthright discussion of what we have in common, versus what we differ on. It is suprising to many that the Democrats are now the party acting more in concert with traditional conservative values than the GOP.
Welcome to DU!!
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Patchuli Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #34
43. I love the Cheshire Cat!
I used to have a really cool coffee cup with him and he disappeared when your coffee was hot!
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I Have A Dream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
38. Thank you for your post.
I really liked the statement "I have no doubt whatsoever who's right and who's wrong." Like you, this just seems so obvious to me, and I would think that it would be obvious to anyone who is paying any kind of attention. However, politics is complicated, and quite often it takes about 30 seconds before people's eyes start to glaze over when the discussion gets into any detail at all. I think that this is what makes it possible for the people who are currently in charge of the US to get away with what they do. The corporate media is another big part of the problem. If Americans see it on TV or read it in the paper, it must be true. :eyes:

How do we ever get a truly informed electorate?? (That's a rhetorical question.)

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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
40. Thanks for this post! I said in another thread that ther are many good Republicans out there!
Edited on Sat Oct-28-06 08:09 PM by calipendence
Or at least some that have up until recently been Republicans.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

I think there are some principled Republicans that we all here need to thank a lot for and hold out as an example to those that are dissillusioned with what's going on, what to do to do what's right in this situation.

I think the key thing is now to note that its about voting out ALL Republicans for the time being, until their leadership changes and we get more respectable people in power of the Republican Party again. Maybe not folks that we'll all agree with a lot of the time, but at least people that want to conduct the nation's business in a civil, Democratic manner and not just serve elites that have corrupted and try to tear down our system of democracy. Once we have new trustworthy leadership, and a system of public financing nationally, then we can go back to having different parties each representing our points of view more pointedly and not feeling "revolutionary" in the process like many of us do now.

That's why, even though I think someone like congressman Jim Leach in Iowa may be thought of as one you might vote for since he's one who's voted moderately over the years and is one you might like, needs to be voted out of office now (or told that he should leave the current Republican Party the way Jeffords did). It's real critical that at this point we disempower those in power of the party now so that it can be rebuilt from the bottom up. That means making it a minority. Many of those voted out now, if they are good people will come back later to a better party and a better campaign finance system while the others are sent to prison in many cases.

I also point out that I'm not completely happy with the infrastructure of the Democratic Party too, and that it has it's elites that it caters to as well that are pulling its strings. Once we get them in power, we need to weed those people out that abuse the Democratic Party's power as well.

I have a feeling that we'll discover over time, that many of us that are "differentiated" as "liberal" and "conservative" as the talk radio types would try to label us, aren't really that far apart when we look closely at what we value, etc. I think most of us want others to have the freedom to pursue their happiness, as long as it doesn't intrude on our rights and happiness as well. That's a principle that's made this country great that I think most of us have as Americans, and can I think be achieved better again, once we have a government system that isn't corrupt and is serving the people instead of special interests.

I think most of us want a vibrant economy where we all benefit from, and that we don't destroy the rest of the world economically, environmentally, etc. in the process and not just reward the few at the expense of the rest of us too. Most of us don't want war or threats to our security and to be friends with our neighbors, instead of feeling that they are a threat to our lives or our jobs.
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #40
49. Amen to that. Here's a website devoted to bringing some civility back to the
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ItsTheMediaStupid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #49
88. Thanks for the topic and the link - Those commercials are funny
Don't worry about the "purists" or whatever they are here. Anybody with the integrity to make the opening post you did is all right with me.

I am sure there are a lot of moderate and conservative members of the republican party who are very upset with what W has done in their names.

And thanks again for the link to that website.
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Catfight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
44. What was his appeal to you in 2000? I never got the bush appeal.
He always seemed like a spoiled rich brat that daddy helped along the way. And it's proven that's the fact, but how does anyone admire or want to make him president? Don't people have better standards for the leader of America than that?
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MODemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
46. I'm so proud of you, and very happy.
It takes a big person to admit they were "wrong" or at best mistaken. We're the one's who've gained by
this stand you have taken. :toast: :thumbsup:
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
48. fiscal conservative...that one cracks me up. I think it's code for 'greedy'
So called fiscal conservatives want to starve the social programs but give out LOTS of corporate and military-industrial welfare. They aren't fiscally conservative at all, they just allocate differently.
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Maybe it's the "conservative" part that you object to--how about
"fiscally frugal"?

We're headed for a fiscal collapse if we keep spending money we don't have. The head of the GAO, a non-partisan position with a 15 year term, says it all:

What could happen if our 8.5 trillion dollar debt continues at this pace

In posts above, two self-described fiscal conservatives make clear that we support federal spending on education and health care. I support universal health care and despise the amount we spend on the military and on tax cuts for corporations and the wealthy.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Any Democratic administration has been fiscally
conservative compared to the present administration.

Welcome, civil. It's been a terrible five years; glad you're with us.
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rep the dems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
51. It takes a lot of courage to admit you voted for Bush and that
Edited on Sat Oct-28-06 09:05 PM by rep the dems
you were wrong to do so to several thousand die hard democrats. You're all right with me :toast:
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 09:50 PM
Response to Original message
55. I'm so glad you turned from the Dark Side. :-)
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 10:15 PM
Response to Original message
58. Confession is good for the soul.........
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
59. Here in Goldwater country, I'm shocked at how few people have managed to wake
themselves up to what's really happening.

I'm a yella-dawg born and bred, respected but never liked Goldwater, but I'm fairly certain he is absolutely spinning with what has happened.

Have you read "Conservatives Without Conscience" by John Dean? Excellent book about how the neocons have taken over and how to fight back.

Welcome to the light. :patriot:
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 10:31 PM
Response to Original message
61. You give me hope.....
that others will see the 'light' and put their country's Constitution and Democracy BEFORE their party.

Thx.
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WinstonSmith4740 Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
62. Welcome to the light!
Actually, you'll probably find a lot of people here with the same sort of thoughts as you. Contrary to neo-con propaganda, we don't demand everyone march in lock-step with each other :toast:
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LeahD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 01:35 AM
Response to Original message
64. 2003 statement rings so true for me........... n/t
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
66. great post, however ...
IMHO, all of this came in with Ronald Reagan. It was merely the heat of the water being turned up slowly.

The great myth of the last thirty years is that liberals are for big government. If anything,
it is exactly the reverse. We've allowed people to enforce some simple-minded concepts as standing for
"conservative" and "liberal", when their "conservative ideas" aren't conservative and their "liberal ideas" not
liberal. That is how Reagan came in eschewing "Big Brother" and went out having built up Big Brother to unprecedented
levels of power.

But I'm very glad to hear you've seen the light with regarded to the Big Brother of Big Brothers, Junta Bush.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. The seeds of this poisonous fruit came from Nixon vine and flourished during the Reagan years.
Edited on Sun Oct-29-06 02:38 AM by Raster
Nixon believed that not for the press, he would have gotten away with all of it. As he flew away in disgrace, the Nixon youth and their Brooks Brothers storm troopers began plotting their return to power. The unthinkable happened when Jimmy Carter was elected POTUS. The country developed a conscience and began to question American dependence on foreign oil, the escalating Cold War, and humanity's negative impact on our fragile planet. When Carter told the country we needed a massive change in direction, 76 percent of the country was ready to follow. Unfortunately the Texas/American Petroleum Mafia along with their collaborators and partners the Saudis, decided that a greener, petroleum-leaner America was not in their best interests. Whispered deals were made and petroleum pandemonium created the "gas crisis." Other whispered deals were made and the American hostages in Iran were used to influence an election. Come-from-behind Ronnie Raygun was elected POTUS and we were all told it was a "new morning in America." Immediately the shadow powers began consolidating their hold on governmental infrastructure. The eight year political performance art piece also known as the Reagan Presidency saw the beginning of the dismantling of the government of the people, and the foundation laid for a corporate nation-state. Laws and policies were installed to precede the transfer of the nation's collective wealth from the hands of the many citizens to the hands of the few. The most ominous and far-reaching actions of the Reagan years was the planning and preparation to facilitate the consolidation of the American main stream media into biased hands, effectively eliminating a neutral and independent press.

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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #67
69. Definitely Nixon was one of them
However, Nixon was unmasked. Many people still labor under delusions about Reagan.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:06 AM
Response to Reply #69
71. Like I said, the Eight year political performance art piece known as the
Reagan Presidency. Ronnie was recruited to play a part, and play he did. His performance as a two-term President of the United States was Oscar-caliber material. The Great Communicator indeed. Meat puppet was more like it.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
68. well thanks I guess
although I have to say I am disgusted by anyone who helped usher in Reagan's bullshit
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NJCher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
70. hang down your head, Tom Dooley
One of my older students "confessed" she voted for bush in 2000. It was after class and I was picking up papers and filing them in my briefcase after class. I was listening to her and looking up now and then to maintain eye contact with the conversation. When she got to the part about voting for bush in 2000, though, I looked up to find her hanging her head!

Yes, she was literally hanging in her head in shame. After she admitted voting for bush she couldn't even look me in the eye.

I have not, for the record, expressed a single political opinion in this class.




Cher
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Quakerfriend Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 05:02 AM
Response to Reply #70
73. Hey girl, good morning!
:9

You and I are such early birds!! I hope you are doing well.

Your student must have realized that you were someone who would not judge her.
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:22 AM
Response to Original message
72. Lets hope the OTHERS will catch on and JOIN US SOON.....too
Edited on Sun Oct-29-06 04:22 AM by opihimoimoi
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Ferretherder Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
74. I, too, was once what I call a 'political-Miss America-voter'.
I couldn't be botherd to really scrutinize the candidates positions on issues, or any such 'boring' crap like that, so I just voted for the guy that I thought was 'the type of guy I would like to see in that particular office'.

Sheesh.

That sort of thinking got me to vote for Ronald Mutherfukin' Regan!

NEVERMORE! My eyes are opened, PERMANENTLY!

Our very livelihoods, our very FUTURE, depends on voting for men and women who SHARE our hopes and concerns for this country and all who live in it. PERIOD.

You are not alone, my friend. And welcome to the movement to restore the America THAT WE REMEMBER!....no, better - the America that our Founding Fathers envisioned - a true democracy dedicated to serving EVERY citizen in these United States.
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #74
76. Tou write three powerful words: "Movement to restore..."
"A movement to restore the America that we remember...

The America that our Founding Fathers envisioned..."

Sounds like a campaigning winner even in the red states.

A movement to restore the rule of law; the separation of powers; the trust of the American people; the moral authority of our country; our alliances worldwide.
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #76
84. Congratulations, civildioBDence ...... your thread has HIT THE TOP ....


....of Greatest Threads




Now let's Restore America......




Thanks for a great pece of writing, civildisoBDence..... Thoreau would be proud.
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Ferretherder Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #76
93. Thanks for the reply.
We WILL see the return of the 'land of the free and the home of the brave', and I have faith that that return begins on November the 8th, 2006!

Ours is the truth, and truth is POWER!
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 09:44 AM
Response to Original message
77. Bizarre
the first fiscal conservative/libertarian I ever heard of that though government is the answer for poverty or healthcare and even suggesting there be a minimum wage pretty much counts you out when it comes to the libertarians.
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civildisoBDence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #77
87. Just goes to show why pigeonholes are for pigeons, not people nt
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #87
89. Do you know why your post has disappeared prematurely......
Edited on Sun Oct-29-06 08:02 PM by charles t
Dear civildisoBDence,

from both the Greatest Links page, and the General Discussion /Politics page? There are several more hours b efore it should have come down from the greatest links page--- and there are numerous older posts still on that page..... and it is nowhere to be found in the General Discussion/Politics page -- at the appropriate time slot or otherwise.

And there are no posts which would give any suggestion of any reason....

And no posting rules which give any suggestion as to why your excellent and timely post should disappear...

I could not send a message to you by clicking on the icon either....

(The only reason I could access this page at all was because I had made a previous comment on the page, therefore it showed up in "My DU" -- I guess you can answer in this fashion or by clicking on the "Send a message" Icon beside my screenname.)

Do you have any idea what happened, an why your post has disappeared?



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gully Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
79. Thank goodness for people like you who actually paid attention.
.
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Brundle_Fly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
80. Katrina n/t
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
81. I'm tearing because
it's so poignant to read from someone who actually was bamboozled by "them" but has the character and the intelligence to not be for very long. Even with the complicity of the corporatemediawhores marching the USA to War On Iraq in lockstep with the neoCONs.

Thank you for writing this out and I have no doubt whatsoever, either!
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
82. Would be interested in your thoughts on . .
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democrank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
85. Your post means a lot to me. Thanks for writing it.
Some Republicans are smart enough to wade through the slick commercials, the focus group results, the professional image makers, the script writers, the consultants and start thinking for themselves. I remember hearing a couple of years ago that you shouldn`t watch what Bush says, you should watch what he does. I followed that rule and was astounded by the huge chasm between the two.

If this country is to be saved, like-minded Democrats, Republicans and Independents will have to work together to save it. Glad you`re here with us.
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
86. I don't understand why some people didn't figure out what Bush was before
Edited on Sun Oct-29-06 03:19 PM by Mountainman
2000. It was so obvious to me that he was not qualified to be president. He was a stupid frat boy who knew nothing about the world and failed at everything he touched yet people thought he would be a good president. They said he didn't need to know much because he would be surrounded by people who did. WTF? I just don't understand how they could think like that.
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CharmCity Donating Member (202 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
90. I like the way you write.
And love what you said!
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
91. VERY WELL PUT, AND THANKS!!
Very well put, and THANKS!! I have actually met a number of Republicans who are voting Dem more and more these days. THEY'RE JUST SO FED UP!! I know a few who have changed party affiliation entirely. The moderate Republican Party of Lincoln in GONE!! Those now in charge of that party are radical right-wing neo-con ideologues whose intent is to seize power through dividing Americans one against the other and consolidating wealth and power into the hands of the few at the expense of the many. They are arrogant power mongers and anything but Christian. It makes me sick to my stomach. And this is coming from a guy who hunts, fishes, displays the flag, reads the bible, is a Freemason and Shriner, and is quite moderate to conservative on some social issues and have voted for some R's (and I's) at the local level in the past. But for the most part I have always been a pretty partisan Dem, and the way I feel now I will NEVER, EVER even consider supporting anyone who aligns with the Republican party.

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wholetruth00 Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-29-06 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
92. Lamont should pay you use your #9 and #10 paragraphs in an ad.
they say it all in a way that even the Limbaugh followers can understand.
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