Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

"The Vote is Rigged" Perseverating Hurts DEMS Most...

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 01:50 AM
Original message
"The Vote is Rigged" Perseverating Hurts DEMS Most...
I'm getting bloody sick and tired of seeing every single thread expressing any positive hopes/expectations/etc. about the upcoming elections peppered with the squasher "Well, you're just deluding yourself because the fix is in and the machines are already rigged and THEY are going to steal the election again."

Election fraud is a real issue that takes many forms. Vote suppression (like that filthy letter in Los Angeles-- they learned THAT one from the KKK, we used to see that shit all the time in the South, right after the Voting Rights Act passed,) denying qualified voters the right to vote (paging Katherine Harris and The Lists,) and actual election day fraud in the form of under-reporting, over-reporting, "losing" (stealing) evidence of votes, and, yes, manipulating/hacking/tampering with voting machines.

Election fraud is nothing new. It's been done in virtually every election in my lifetime, and it's been done by GOPpies and (gasp!) Dems alike. Mostly it produces small-scale cheats, especially local and Congressional races, sometimes it extends to state and even Federal races. Yep, there have always been a few low, sleazy critters holding offices they're not entitled to, and yes, We The People should be vigilant and come down like a ton of bricks on the perps when this happens.

While sleazy and even illegal campaign tactics, fundraising methods, etc., can be executed on a broad, carefully-coordinated scale, which can justifiably be labeled "conspiracy," (CREEP, anyone? Ratfucking?) the logistics of actual election-DAY fraud are so complex that they militate against any broad, specific conspiratorial action being universally effective and successful. That doesn't include sleaze like voter suppression "suggestions" passed on "entirely unofficially" from untraceable sources at national campaign headquarters, of course, but it does include actual mechanical fraud in vote recording, tabulating, and reporting. There are simply too many jurisdictions, with too many different methodologies for conducting the vote, and most of all, TOO MANY PEOPLE INVOLVED, for large-scale mechanical fraud to be executed on election day. Do I think some machines will be hacked? Hell yes. Maybe even in "key" and "close" districts. Maybe enough to put the loser, rather than the winner, in office in some places. But if it does happen, it isn't going to happen on a scale grand enough to deny the Democrats their victory solely through active mechanical fraud on election day itself.

What CAN impair the Democratic victory, and/or deny some good Democrats victory in close, hard-fought races, is low voter turnout in key Democratic constituencies, because those voters believe there's no point in voting anyway since everything is rigged and the fix is in. Why bother going to the polls if you "know" that "they" are just going to steal the election anyway?

I would politely ask my friends here on DU to think about this, and to be sensitive to a few factors that don't necessarily come easily to mind, especially if you are comparatively young, and have gathered most of your political experience in your home town in the Midwest or New England or other regions that have a comparatively less lurid history of election fraud.

If you are not a person of color and don't have many people of color in your acquaintance, especially older people, you may not know anyone who has personally experienced some of the really disgusting voter intimidation, vote suppression tactics that my generation saw in the South, in highly polarized urban areas, and in very diverse rural communities in the West. For people who HAVE experienced such tactics in the past, it is very easy for them to get discouraged by the "certainty" that their vote "won't be counted." Because it's happened to them before. And these are people we can't afford to have staying home. We need their votes. Your discouraging words could be the straw that tips the balance for them.

Please be careful about how you express your worry, anger, and frustration about election fraud. It's real, it happens. We need to be prepared to fight it when it does. But in the mean time, loudly and insistently writing off the whole damn' election just HELPS the GOPpies by increasing the possibility that some key Democratic voters will decide it's not worth the bother to fight their way to the polls on November 7th and cast a vote that "won't be counted" anyway.

Here's an excellent article in the NYT that covers some of these issues in detail, more clearly than I ever could, although I don't agree with all of their analysis and conclusions:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/27/us/politics/27race.ht...

Read it. Chew it over. Agree or disagree, try to moderate the pessimism and control the urge to check what you may perceive as others' irrational exuberance over the upcoming Democratic victory. The best way to ensure that victory is broad enough and emphatic enough and complete enough that any fraud can't be pulled off on more than a local, sporadic scale is to get a huge tide of Democratic voters to the polls. And the best way to get Democratic voters to the polls is to get them excited about being part of something important, wonderful, and positive: Democratic victory.

earnestly,
Bright
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Vexatious Ape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 02:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. Well said.
I have a very good lefty friend at work who told me, "the fix is in John so don't waste your time." I did my best to bring him to reality, however, I'll be showing him your post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. The fix is in and the GOP is out
Please pass this on to your buds.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. 9 very sweet words
:bounce:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vexatious Ape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. I will do that.
And when we win I will rub it in their faces.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 02:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. Oh, stop scolding. I'm sick of the scolding. The fix is in and that is
exactly why voters need to go out in DROVES! It is step one in *challenging* the fixed races.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JeffR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Getting out voters in droves was sort of the point of the OP, IMO
I stand to be corrected if I read it wrong, of course...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
8. I know it was, but my point was I'm sick of the scolding about the
whining about the rigged elections. It's more negative than positive. Scolding is not a motivator. So, I counter-scolded. It's not nice, is it?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TygrBright Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. No, you're not wrong. The point is that all the palaver...
...about "the fix" being in, for "them" is what DISCOURAGES voter turnout in some key constituencies, people we need energized and hopeful and determined enough to believe their vote WILL count this time, so they WILL go to the polls.

Talking up "the fix is in" could keep them home. Many have experienced not being allowed to vote, or not having their vote counted. They don't really want to experience that again.

The message for 11/7 should be "Yes, every single vote will count. YOUR vote will count. They may TRY to steal the election, but if you show up and vote, they CAN'T."

If that's what you read, you read it right.

assertively,
Bright
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. But that's like pretending the Diebold machines aren't being
Edited on Sat Oct-28-06 02:34 AM by valerief
tampered with and all the more traditional vote tampering isn't being employed. What's wrong with being honest and hopeful? Hey, we know the ruling party will screw with the machines, etc., but our only initial defense is to overwhelm them with turnout. We can't pretend the "fix" isn't real. We have to say, the fix is real and we have a strategy to counter it.

People have a right to complain about the vote theft. We can't pretend it's not real by ignoring it.

I think we agree essentially, however.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. If they CAN cheat, they can only cheat around the margins of error
Anything else will stink on ice, not that their last effort didn't, either. And the spread is too great in most races--we aren't talking a whole boatload of fifty-fifty propositions this time. In many races the GOP are wheezing far behind.

You are entirely correct--massive turnout will screw them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. Right On. Quit the scolding and let the facts get out. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
5. It is nothing new and, fundamentally, it is a race and class crime.
The people behind the fraud are not the minions we see in the White House or Congress, they're of a much higher caste. They may just decide to pull the franchise of the right wing neo conservative circus since at the least it is bankrupting us in financially and in terms of any good will we project to the world, and, at the worst, they've set us on a course that may turn the world in to a place that can no longer support human life. If those with the true wealth got the memo, then this might turn into a route. If not, they the same dirty tricksters will do the same dirty deeds.

How a cause that is so unifying - free, fair, open, transparent, and INCLUSIVE elections - can be so poorly represented is beyond me.

Nice post.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 04:43 AM
Response to Original message
13. just vote. 8^)
and hang in there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 04:53 AM
Response to Original message
14. How about reports of actual "glitches" and miscounts going on right now?
There have been several already on DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-28-06 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
15. Video the Vote - Help stop election fraud in the US
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Sep 01st 2014, 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC