To those with intellect: what would happen if Bush Dieold's the election?

[Imagevision]

after which he would recruit Jim Baker's comments to make a joke of the notion...

[MissWaverly]

1. there would be a military coup

and I am not sure that we would still have a democracy.

[Imagevision]

2. military coup? as in Bush would call in the national guard to control the peeps

[MissWaverly]

3. No, as in the Old Guard would take the country back

they are not going to let Junior nuke Iran or any one of a number of his delightful schemes,
even Jim Baker says Iraq is a helluva mess, they are quiet as mice because of the mid-terms;
even they know Iraq is in the toilet. The conservatives (not the neo-cons) are going to
take back the Republican Party from the whackos.

[Imagevision]

6. Being that the "whacko's are the conservatives, isn't this counter productive?

[MissWaverly]

8. the conservatives are not the neocons

the neocons are the ones that wanted a global policing force, a new world order, regime
change in Iraq and Iran, and other nifty ideas as the United States as a unilateral force
in the globe and cutting off the UN

[Imagevision]

12. MissWaverly, the notion that Bush would rule out Baker assessment

re-evaluation of current Iraq status is highly unlikely? (a change of "stay the course")

[MissWaverly]

24. Bush & Cheney are happy with Iraq, it's been great for their pals

I was reading Halli-bacon just made another unbelievable profit, why should they change,
their greatest hope is that finally we get booted out, that way there will be no
investigation of what went on if no Americans are permitted within its borders.

[TankLV]

30. Conservatives - wackos - that's a synonym...

[MissWaverly]

34. Look, we have to not lumped them all together

I think Bush and his minions have formed a cult of the Republican party, the real
Republicans have been victimized just as much as we have been.

[libertad]

38. Right, like we did anything in 2000 (FL) or 2004 (OH)

I don't think anything would happen. Everyone just seems willing to take whatever happens and accept it.

[DesertRat]

4. I can't even let my mind go there...n/t

[AndyTiedye]

5. The Media Would Explain It Away, Just Like in 2004, 2002, and 2000

We'd get to see Holy Joe blathering at us about how the Dems lost because they weren't all like him

[slackmaster]

7. Someone damn well better figure out how to PROVE it before it happens

[ChiciB1]

9. I Know What SHOULD Happen... But I Fear Too Many People Aren't

up for REVOLUTION! I am and feel it is a MUST to Take To The Streets!

And yes, I know I'm in the minority! Too much complacency for me so if nothing happens I'm looking to get the Hell Outta Here ASAP! Even though it will take some time. Have already done my Costa Rica research!

[IndianaGreen]

10. Americans are not like Mexicans

If we were, we would have taken to the streets in 2000 and 2004 and rejected the stolen election and the usurper to the Presidency. We would have millions of angry voters mobilized across the country in mass actions against the illegitimate government. This is what is going on in Mexico today. This is what did not happen in America in 2000 or in 2004, and that is unlikely to happen in 2006 or in 2008.

The powers Congress gave Bush will allow him to declare all of us enemy combatants and ships us off to the gulag, never to be seen again. Not even Mexico does that!

[Infinite Hope]

11. Democrats would...

demand correction via the judicial system and if Republicans prevented justice, Democrats would "run to the hills" to boycott and, assuming they eeked out the majority, prevent the House from having quorum which demands 218 Representatives be present.

[TankLV]

31. Hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahaha!

that was a great joke...

No - really - thanks for the laugh of the day...

[MGKrebs]

13. Nothing, without a charismatic leader to get us motivated.

Someone has to be able to convince a lot of people that there is more to be gained by risking what they have than by taking no risk. It's a hard sell.

[ChiciB1]

14. Ain't Gonna Happen... Even This Thread Isn't Getting That Much

attention. But I've posted this kind of thread before, I didn't expect too much feed back anyway.

It's almost too sad to talk about. I have lost all hope and am working toward losing complete TRUST!

Wonder is "wishing" might work?? Naw, don't sink so!!

[MGKrebs]

22. When I get like that, I think of the people in the civil rights movement.

Some have been working for more than 50 years, and their sacrifices are almost unimaginable, but they continue to work because the job isn't done.

The struggle will probably never end. In 20 years, perhaps you and I will meet at a rally or a meeting, still working to avoid fascism.

[ChiciB1]

25. INFUSION Of Optimism IS Such A Liberal Nemesis, But Da-Yuum It

freaking HURTS! I mean I wish there would come a time in my life when phrases like yours don't just suck me right back in!

I can attribute so many factors as to why "we the people" seem to stay about "one toke UNDER the line" being required to live in this time in our history. However, I have seen past history that inspired me to have pride in my country, so it should come as no surprise that I'm angered when I see such APATHY today!

I DAMN you for making me think about political "struggle" when it was so hard to get to the point of a reality of CYNICISM!!

Gimmee at break, going back to HOPE really produces a PROCESS of stress that could only be defined as Obsessive, Compulsive!

[MGKrebs]

26. Personally, I cultivate a split-personality capability.

I have gotten to the point where I can transition instantaneously between cynicism and sincere idealism. There is no conflict for me. I think my brain has identified this as a means to continue to work and keep hope alive too.

P.S. - I just got back from seeing Jesse Jackson speak. He is still inspiring.

[ChiciB1]

28. Spread The Message... And Transitioning Comes With Time!

Many live in LIMBO for such a long time!

[truthisfreedom]

15. i don't think it can reasonably be done. there are so many candidates

in so many states that it seems impossible... this isn't like a presidential election where only a couple of states need to be "switched" to win the election. there are many different types of machines involved over all 50 states, and, for example, here in Minnesota there will be random hand-counting in a few counties and if there is a 5% discrepancy between the hand-count and original machine count, there will be massive hand-counting of the ballots.

we use optical machines and they're older and have been very reliable.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

21. plausibility. THAT'S the word. In 2002, the cabal hadn't publicly

fucked up over and over. That was pre Iraq and pre Katrina.

2006 is a whole other can of worms. MKJ

[sendero]

23. That's what I believe also..

... also, to steal a bunch of races you need a bunch of corrupt folks. The more people that know about it , the riskier it becomes. As soon as someone is caught red handed stealing an election all hell will break loose and the game will be over.

The new Gallup "poll" notwithstanding, the country is sick of the Republicans and they are not buying their lies and excuses any more. I think we'll prevail.

[BeFree]

16. First, this question must be answered...

How will we know the election was diebolded?

[Imagevision]

17. was diebolded? - probably the same way they figured out Ohio was

[BeFree]

18. Ok, but that took a year

And after that year, it was too late.

So, let me rephrase the question: If it is diebolded, how long will it take for the people to realize and act?

[Imagevision]

19. It took a month but it took more then a year to get any media coverage if any

It's tight, Rove has Bush using the police like the gestapo's so protesting isn't what it was in the 60's-70's? - Unless a dem or group of them united where it blatantly obvious, again, Bush is the president, if he use's Jim Baker to calm notions of faulty or irregular voting antics? it worked for Bush in 2004, this is a tough one with a crooked administration, they make up the rules or so it seems?

[BeFree]

20. Ok...a month

Now, there were many other states with big questions about the numbers, too.

But what did the people do? Lets try this angle: What will you do if you think it was diebolded, and what allies do you have to make a concerted effort to gain the majority necessary to un-diebold the election?

[Imagevision]

36. What will you do if - precisely unlike the 60's protests aren't permitted and

forcibly discouraged, the freedoms Bush speaks of nothing more then foregone memories along with his democracy tripe.

[KoKo]

27. Don't know if I qualify for "intellect" but for whatever it's worth...I think

the Grassroots Activists would build on what they've done and carry on the work we've done since Bush Stole Election 2000. I think we'd be angry...and post alot about it everywhere..but we would just build and work for '08.

It's going to be a long, long battle to take back...what some of us thought America was meant to be. Just my humble unintellectual opinion, though.

[TankLV]

29. Nothing - everyone still has their cable and tunes...

The sheeple won't give two fucks about it or spend a nanosecond thinking about it...

[GreenTea]

32. Nothing will happen-Republican Secretary of States count & certify the votes

They can cheat and steal as they choose, and very easily with Diebold machines in each state around the country where republican Secretary of States, and there are many.

Nothing has ever happened to them when they stolen elections in 2000, 2002, 2004 and 2005 why would 2006 be any different?

They will steal votes, get sworn in, take their seats, we will scream, media will ignore it, until month's later, when it's too late. Nothing will happen to the republicans...It never has before so why not keep stealing seats they need.

How you gonna prove an election in some seat was stolen with their Diebold machines with no way to verify either way?

Whatever the machines say is the winner we must except....because that's what the media will announce.

[some guy]

33. Maybe I'm mis-reading you

but it seems to me you have two different questions.

1. What happens if Bush Diebolds the election?
Possibly not all that much.

2. What if Bush makes a joke of Baker's proposals? (I'm kind of paraphrasing you here, so this is where I wonder about what you meant to ask)
a) The PNAC agenda is already dead, but they may not be willing to admit it, in which case, they will possibly try to strike Iran. I don't think the military will allow that, so if Bush gives the order, orders would be refused, and processes would be put in motion to relieve him due to mental stability problems.

b) The WH has already started making noises about changes in Iraq, so I think they recognize the PNAC agenda is dead, and are looking for a way out.

My overall perspective is the US is overstretched, an empire in decline. The 1% don't really want to have either the planet or the US destroyed, one or the other of which would occur if the PNAC agenda tries to continue forward. So it won't be allowed to do so.

[Imagevision]

35. PNAC agenda is dead? - no problem, you can count on Diebold being

quite alive and well -- the chances after 2000 and 2004 of not losing the election to election fraud is slim to zero and I'm the last person who needs/wants to be right on this one!

[some guy]

37. I do believe

and hope the PNAC agenda is dead.

As for Diebold, that's an open question for me. I don't look at the US from a left-right perspective; I look at it from a class perspective. And from that perspective, I see the US as an empire in decline, with the super-wealthy elites still in control.

I think they went along with the PNAC agenda for a while; there was much potentiallyto be gained. A portion of Farenheit 911 touched on this,as well as Naomi Klein's piece, "Baghdad Year Zero" - carving up Iraq into an unregulated, corporate-controlled "free market" wet dream.

Except, Iraq didn't go as well as hoped, so the subsequent moves in the PNAC middle-East grab got delayed, and the rest of the world has turned pretty hostile to the US.

The 1% still control the US, but it's a pretty fragile thing at this point, and how fast and far it falls is still uncertain. Since the 1% don't really have any where to go outside the US where they could wield the power and control they currently have, there is little choice but to try to stabilize the US, and slow the collapse.

Two things pointing to this idea are a Paul Krugman piece from early September, "Things Fall Apart" where he discusses the corporate elite starting to distance itself from the radical religious right,
and the sudden major attention being focused on virtually every mis-step by the Republicons.

Over the past six years,there have been any number of scandals which should have gotten major coverage, but which didn't because the mainstream media chose not to cover them heavily. So why now? I think to help udermine the Republicons, and reign in the PNACers, as well as defang the radical religious right.

So. Diebold. In terms of the corporate elite, the various voting machine companies are not very big fish; they could be pressured to *not* throw the election to the Republicons. I don't know if the various heads of the various voting machine companies are "true believers" of all things Republicon or not, so to me, that is still an open question. I don't see it as a certainty that the machines will "malfunction" in favor of Republicons.