Things that concern and irritate me the most lately, make me wonder.

[madfloridian]

Just a few things:

1. I am concerned that there has been a sea change in Ned Lamont's campaign since Hillary and Harry Reid sent their advisors to him. The ones I know of are Howard Wolfson and Stephanie Cutter. I hear they are very good. I also know they believe you have to go "centrist" to win.

Someone asked Sam Seder why the right wing believe such silly things. Sam said they had "been told to" believe them. That's the way I feel about having to go "centrist" to win. We have been told that so long we believe it.

2. I am concerned that Bill Clinton had fundraisers in Maine recently, combined with the private visit to the Bush family at the same time. Ok, I know, nothing wrong with that according to some...but it bothers me. It was good he had the fundraisers, but I think he is too cozy with the Bush family.

3. I am very concerned about Hillary's equivocations about the torture bill. She sounds like my senator, Bill Nelson, in avoiding speaking clearly about it.

""Have we fallen so low as to debate how much torture we are willing to stomach?" said the Senator. Then she did exactly that, by falling for the same rhetorical trap that has confused and captured so many others. Asked about the fictional "ticking time bomb scenario," she said (according to the News' Ben Smith) " ... there is a place for what she called 'severity,' in a conversation that included mentioning waterboarding, hypothermia, and other techniques commonly described as torture."

She added, "I have said that those are very rare but if they occur there has to be some lawful authority for pursuing that ... there has to be some check and balance, some reporting ... in those instances where we have sufficient basis to believe there is something imminent."

4. I worry that we are not as a party really taking a stand on the immoral nature of the Iraq invasion. We are equivocating on that issue just as Hillary and Bill Nelson are doing on torture. We are not as appalled as we should be at the deaths of innocents on both sides. Few Democrats mention how the military was betrayed, how they thought they were fighting for something real and honest.

5. Many of our Democrats who might win their races have done so by running from a vast majority in the party. A whole lot of ordinary people in the party resent that these candidates are afraid to act like Democrats, and that they try to set themselves apart as more religious, more righteous. They go on TV, they have ads that purport their righteousness their "centrism".....as though the rest of us in the party were not so good and not so righteous. They publicly tell good Democratic leaders not to come to their states.

6. I am tired of our party letting the other party make us think we have to redefine ourselves on "national security." We were always strong on that issue. We have let them twist us around until it was the central issue of the season. It was done either in defensiveness and fear, or there is this scenario....it was done on purpose by our party. Perhaps because there are some goals in common about the middle east. Just conjecture.

There are other things, but they can wait until later.

[madfloridian]

1. Guess they don't bother anyone else.

:shrug:

[madfloridian]

2. I lost my list of those who voted for the torture bill.

I thought I had one saved, but can't find it. Anyone?

[hijinx87]

7. links to the house and senate rollcall votes

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00259">Senate

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2006/roll491.xml">House

pretty depressing, actually.

[madfloridian]

12. Very depressing.

But thank you for the link.

[Mass]

3. I agree.

Clinton's fundraising at the 23rd hour bothers me because it is clear he is trying to be associated by the success created by others. In the same time, he is such a formidable fundraising machine that I understand he is asked for.

[madfloridian]

4. And to fundraise in Maine and then head to the Bush estate...

for a private visit....it bothers me.

[Mass]

5. I did not see that part. It bothers me as well.

[AtomicKitten]

6. Lamont just infused his campaign with another million today.

Which would lead me to believe he's having financial issues; the rest is speculation.

And anybody that supports any measure of torture has sashayed themselves out of being a serious contender for office. This should be a deal-breaker for all Dems.

[madfloridian]

8. Well, Lieberman has almost 5 million to play with .

And I think that is pretty formidable.

I am concerned that there is more going on than money with the Lamont campaign...too many cooks as they say. I don't know that but I suspect it.

[AtomicKitten]

10. I hope Lamont is smart enough to drop-kick to the curb

some of the old tyme Dem operatives that have presided over loooooooosing campaigns in the past several years. I send his campaign money a couple times a month for TV ads because of America's short attention span. He needs to go for Lieberman's jugular soon.

[tkmorris]

9. I agree

"And anybody that supports any measure of torture has sashayed themselves out of being a serious contender for office. This should be a deal-breaker for all Dems."

I am not a Hillary fan, nor a basher. She is what she is and while she was never in danger of being my first choice for 08, neither was she at the bottom of the list. When she recently stated that, in effect, torture is wrong unless we really really have to she dropped right off my radar. It is astounding to me that someone who describes themselves as a Democrat could think such a thing.

[AtomicKitten]

11. It is disgraceful for anyone to even consider it.

I realize HRC is trying to inject her image with testosterone, but this is going TOO FAR. And the sad part is that the immoral wingnuts that think torture is fine would never support her anyway. She is making a huge mistake with this, a huge immoral mistake that is unforgivable in my eyes, and I know how to hold a grudge.