'how to stop terrorism' by Noam Chomsky (video)

[whirlygigspin]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14120.htm

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

[unblock]

1. oooh, some punctuation in that subject line might help....

not to be a grammar nazi, but it might help with an unfortunate ambiguity....

[whirlygigspin]

2. omg!

:rofl:

thanks for that suggestion haha!

[Radical Activist]

4. lol

funny correction, but true.

[Moochy]

7. Chomsky ate my baby dingoe!!!

IM SERIES!!111

We must stop his acts of terrorism! My poor baby dingoe his name was Clenis!!!

[Kurovski]

8. You say dingoe, I say potatoe.

You say potato, I say Dingo.

dingoe, potatoe, potato, Dingo...etc, :-)

[Moochy]

12. Since Chompsky hates America

Let's call the whole thing off!!! :evilgrin:

[Kurovski]

14. Dood! Thats huge!!!!!!!!!!

tell Chumpsky, Amairica, lov it are leeve it!!!!!11loL

[Kurovski]

3. " If they do it it's terrorism, if we do it it's counter-terrorism."

The same propaganda used by the Nazi regime, says Chomsky.

[Kurovski]

5. Stop supporting brutal regimes.

[BootinUp]

6. I watched most of it

Chomsky certainly makes good points. There are some things I can't agree or accept as fact from him though. The part about why they hate us, that we prevent them from forming democracies. I understand the point, but I wouldn't describe it exactly that way.

[Selatius]

9. I would.

Just study what the US/UK conspired to do with Iran after they elected Mossadeqh in 1951. He was overthrown in a CIA-sponsored coup, and the pro-US/UK Shah was installed.

[1932]

15. And according to the Kinzer book in my sig line,

Iranians held a grudge about that for a long time. They literally hated us for it.

[davidinalameda]

10. we prevent them from forming democracies?

:rofl:

[whirlygigspin]

11. maybe you need a list...hello?

http://www.adbusters.org/media/flash/hope_and_memory/flash.html#

[leesa]

13. The LAST thing you want in a place where you want to control resources is

a democracy. You want a malleable dictator. It's what we always install, everytime we overthrow a government, elected or not.

[davidinalameda]

17. and that's the way every powerful nation has operated

I will give you all Chile in the 70s and Iran back in the 50s, but in some 3rd world countries where you've had "elections", one group has risen against the government because they didn't like the outcome of the election

I've seen many posts on here after the Mexican election in support of the leftist candidate and his call for his supporters to take to the streets

that's not democracy-that's intimidation

that's just as bad as the Republicans storming the counting rooms in Florida back in 2000

they were attempting to intimidate the election officials to stop the recount

but you know what, even though we know that the election was stolen, it was stolen legally and there's not a lot we could do about it except for work harder and get people educated on what had happened

[Solon]

16. Don't let facts get in the way of your ideology, ok?

Jesus, I swear, some people just have their head in the sand, who helped overthrow Mossedegh in Iran again? Who were the biggest supporters of the Baathists in Iraq, in addition to Saddam? Who supported the Mujahideen again? Who overthrew or helped hinder democracies ranging from Nicaragua to Greece again? All of those were United States actions, most of the time unilateral, and you claim you can't believe it?

[BootinUp]

19. Reading my other posts and

using them against me eh? damn you. :sarcasm:

No, thats not what I meant, that those things didn't happen, i.e. our interference in those foreign governments. I am just not sure it is accurate to call them democracies number one (Iran had abysmal literacy) Nationalistic movements probably a better description, led by the few educated people there were who did not want foreign interests in country.

So there were economic reasons we interfered, but there were likely political ones as well. Were we right? Probably not. But how do I know what the Iranian people think? Most of what I see is that there is a religious fundamentalist movement that drives hate of the US in the ME.

[Solon]

20. Mossedegh was freely elected for Crying out loud....

You claim they had abysmal literacy, so what, the United States STILL has abysmal literacy, what the FUCK that has to do with your argument, I have no idea. You claim that Iran wasn't a democracy back then. My question is how many times did you flunk political science 101 in college?

Look, if you are ignorant about the Middle East or Democracy, STATE SO, but DON'T form an opinion based on what you DON'T know, otherwise you just look stupid.

ON EDIT: OK, how about this, do you think Australia of the 60s and 70s was a Democracy?

[BootinUp]

21. why not discuss it with someone else

who likes being called names.

[Solon]

22. No offense intended, its just that this is almost like talking to...

a Flat-Earther or something. Please understand that I studied Iran for a long time. In the 1950s, they were a multi-party democracy, and Mossedegh was elected president on a platform of reform, most of that reform was modeled on the New Deal of FDR. One of the policies was a phased nationalization of oil fields that were owned by British Petroleum. The British tried to overthrow the government of Iran, and failed, they then turned to the United States for help. Harry Truman, at the time, refused, and nothing was done, till Ike entered office, then we installed the Shah as dictator. Note: the coup was based at the American Embassy.

The Secret Police of the Shah(SAVAK) were trained by the CIA, mostly former SS officers that surrendered to the United States under a deal where they gave as much intel as they could on the USSR. Look up Operation Rusty, or the Gehlen Org, by the way, well over half of Reinhard Gehlen's people were double agents, and severely damaged U.S. national security. SAVAK ended up quickly gaining the reputation of being just as brutal as the SS of Nazis fame, thousands of "dissidents" etc. were disappeared in that time period. Then, a little over 20 years later, the Shah goes to the US for treatment, and his government in Iran is overthrown, and students storm the U.S. embassy.

The coup that happened in 1979 was a purely defensive measure, the media here were quite biased, the Embassy was still the base for the CIA in Iran, and holding the hostages was to secure the new government.

[BootinUp]

23. When I question

calling it a democracy, I am looking at whether it was a stable functioning government that truly represented the population. Its not that important of an argument to me to be honest. We did interfere in their internal politics. What I originally questioned was the assertion that those actions in the 1950's are the rallying cry for hating America, and whether the majority of others in the middle east see us as preventing them from forming democracies.


(on edit:And before you attack me, its not an important argument becuase I don't have time to investigate it and form a confident opinion.)

[Solon]

24. In Iran, many do hate us for supporting the brutal dictator there...

not all, the younger generations, that never lived under the Shah, are ambivelent, at best, towards us, then again, because of Bush, the government of Iran is becoming more hardline, it was moderating for years, and now any positive attitude that the younger generations had, I would imagine, disappeared in a cloud of smoke.

As far as the rest of the Middle East, it gets even more complicated, for example, we didn't win any brownie points in funding and arming both sides in the Iran/Iraq war. Nor did we win brownie points in the Persian Gulf war, we told Saddam "Hey, go ahead and invade(for slant drilling)" and then we fought against him for doing what we wanted. We fucked up, plain and simple, in damned near EVERY NATION that we were trying to repair diplomatic relations with, Iran, North Korea, etc. all that has been shredded by Bush.

The rallying cry in most nations that oppose us isn't that we destroyed whatever democracies they had, rather they just want to be LEFT ALONE. We stick our nose where it doesn't belong, and quite a few times, we get stung. There is just as much of an Anti-US attitude in Latin America, as an example, yet we always have the gall to ask why they feel this way.

[BootinUp]

25. Thats pretty much how I see it

The issue I raised was how Chomsky described it. He describes other governments in terms so different from what we hear from other sources I think it makes people in this country tune him out altogether.

[mogster]

18. Here's a good film that builds out Chomsky's argumentation

http://brasscheck.com/videos/middleeast/me1.html