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Here's what going to happen about evangelicals. ....

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:48 PM
Original message
Here's what going to happen about evangelicals. ....
The Democrats are going to twist their stances on women's rights, the rights of the gay community, and such things as stem-cell research. The women's rights cave in might involve contraception. It all goes to when life begins.

So the Democrats "moderate" or "dilute" their beliefs in the right of a woman to make her own child-bearing decisions. Or on the rights of gays to marry. Or on the funding of stem-cell research, with many candidates now putting limitations on it. They do it to win converts from the religious community.

I saw a short clip of Al Mohler, my old buddy buddy on Countdown. He is the Southern Baptist who says we should not have sex without procreation. He is now saying that using birth control pills are against God's wishes.

I saw the others there, I hear the talk here. Some of them will not vote Democratic because they consider it a sin to do so...that our morals are too loose.

We can keep giving in on our beliefs, and they will vote Republican anyway.

Enough other types of Republcans might vote for us to make a difference, but not the very right group of evangelicals.

And we will have given up the rights of women, the rights of the gay community, and the right of the ill and dying to the benefits of stem-cell research....and we will still not reach that group.

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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. From your lips to God's ear...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:57 PM
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Oh, really now - you have factual knowledge of THIS:
".....and forced to abort that baby because the doctor insisted that since the baby was going to have birth defects......"

I'm callin' BS. NO ONE. ABSOLUTELY NO ONE forces an abortion on women with children with defects. Forced abortion is legally a form of assault, and is no doubt a felony, at least in CA. No doctor would EVER perform an abortion without INFORMED CONSENT in writing, and that consent cannot be under duress.

BS.

No wonder feminist groups "shunned" you.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. The only late term abortions are medical
I know of two, one which was a severe spina bifada case and the other one was of a severe heart defect. Neither of them would survive birth.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. Wow, not sure how to answer that. ??
Because I am not sure what you are saying.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. Then you are seriously deluded. "Late term abortions" are ONLY used if
the life of the mother is endanger. PERIOD.

There is no other occurance of it's "use". PERIOD.

Stop spewing repuke talking points.

"late term abortions" are NEVER used as a "choice" of "convenience". NEVER.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. If the fetus will not survive birth, it is allowed
Why force a mother to give birth to a dead birth?
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Lexingtonian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
3. yes

But their kids are walking away from this insustainable medievalism. Give it another generation or generation and a half and this anti-Modernity will exist only in museums, retirement homes and hospices, and the graveyards.

This is why the Democratic Party is more based in the Northeast, Upper Midwest, and West.
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. I agree. I don't want to give up my liberal values.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
5. Many of the GOP are turned off by Evangelicals against birth control
And they won't be voting GOP.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. people who stand for nothing will fall for anything :-) nt
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. But What If Our Powder Isn't Dry?
Wouldn't that be like crossing the beams?
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iconoclastic cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
10. I work with several evangelical Christians who are as liberal as I am.
I think that to scorn them as a group is to scorn a large number of liberals as well.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I am not being critical of the group... I was one.
I was raised Southern Baptist in the heart of SBC country. I am just giving an opinion. I am just saying that there are many who consider voting Democratic out of realm of possibility for them.

I hope they do get disgusted and vote with us, but if they don't we will have given up a lot.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. We've got one running for the State Senate (Part of your county)
Democrat who's Pro-life, Pro gun, stood up to the terrists. You've seen the commercials.

And, I don't think even that, will help him beat the whack-job he's running against in that district.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. No Dem in my district...do you mean Gorham? Running against Ronda?
He is the next one over from us...District 10, I think.

Ronda Storms is one very weird lady. But I bet she has great loyalty among her constituents. She's embarrassing.



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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Yeah, it's Gorham.
But that district thinks Storms is the greatest thing since peanut butter. And she makes Katherine Harris look almost sane.

My point being, In that district, no matter how far to the right a Dem runs, a real repuke will take it.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. You are right. In our district also.
They love their Ronda. Our local Democrats are the same way. It is so hard...it is heartbreaking.
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Dob Bole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 08:47 PM
Response to Original message
18. I'm an evangelical, and NOBODY has suggested this.
Two major political books have come out from the evangelical left in the past year or so. One is "God's Politics" by Jim Wallis, and the other is "Our Endangered Values" by Jimmy Carter. Neither of them have suggested anything like what you are describing. Neither oppose stem-cell research or gay rights. Both oppose abortion and the death penalty; however, their stance on the issue is that abortions should be reduced by reducing unwanted pregnancies, i.e. through liberal economic policies that reduce the abortion rate...not by appointing crazy right-wing judges that screw everyone in the process of maybe one day overturning Roe v. wade.

And their position would work. Kerry destroyed Bush in the first debate in 2004. I contend that if he had answered the abortion question in the second debate by pointing out that the abortion rate had increased under Bush and he had a plan to decrease it, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. Such policies do not endanger or violate Roe v. Wade or women's rights. They are the middle ground that nobody wants to touch...especially Republicans, who would lose their only winning issue in some areas.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. A bill was introduced recently.
The first one did allow for contraceptive rights, the 2nd one by some Democrats for Life did not, said they took issue with providing such.

I will need to look them up. I did not keep the bill name. They are basically called the 95-10 initiative, but some Democrats objected to the birth control part. Republicans did too, of course.

I am not talking about Carter, I am talking about individual candidates. Carter is open about opposing abortion.

I will have to also find the writings of the head of the Southern Baptist Seminary, Dr. Al Mohler. He was on Countdown tonight along with others.

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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. You mean nobody on the evangelical left.
The positions you state are grounds that I would walk on, at least to look around and have a conversation.

I am against the death penalty. I don't like abortion. I have personal reasons for both opposing abortion and vigilantly protecting the legal right to choose safe, legal abortion to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. The middle ground you mention, reducing unwanted pregnancies, is the way to go.

I would like to see the religious left, evangelical or not, become more visible. Otherwise, the religious right is shaping and defining the role of religion in our society, and that's a dangerous thing.

I still don't want religion in my government or any public bodies; I fully support the separation of church and state. Where does the religious left stand on that separation? To heal the damage done by the religious right, there will have to be a willingness not to proselytize to, convert, and control the world. My opinion, of course!
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