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carzen Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 04:23 PM
Original message
The Impeachment Moment
Never before has the system of government established by the U.S. Constitution been as seriously threatened; never before has the built-in remedy for the sort of threat we face been as badly needed; never before have we had as good an opportunity to use that remedy exactly as it was intended.

.......

Bush has lied to the public about the warrantless spying program at the National Security Agency (NSA), the war in Iraq, the kinds of warnings he was given before hurricane Katrina arrived, and numerous other issues. While Nixon made secret audio tapes in the White House which, when discovered, doubled as evidence, this time there is video -- of Bush being warned prior to Katrina and claiming he was not warned, of Bush assuring us he was not engaged in warrantless spying and brazenly asserting that he will continue to spy without warrants, of Bush warning us about Iraq's weapons of mass destruction as well as Saddam's supposed ties to the 9/11 attacks and of Bush claiming he did no such thing, of Bush claiming the U.S. does not condone torture and of the torture victims.

Bush's administration has even bribed journalists and manufactured phony news stories at home as well as in Iraq in order to deceive the public. Congressman John Conyers has introduced bills to censure both the President and Vice President Cheney for their refusal to turn over information, while Senator Russ Feingold has introduced a bill to censure Bush for his illegal spying programs.

But charging Bush with such Nixonian offenses would only scrape the surface of the criminal record that is motivating the popular movement for impeachment -- and impeachment was always meant to be a popular movement.


http://www.tomdispatch.com/index.mhtml?pid=127726
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Will the world forgive us if we turn Bush over to The Hague?
We should liquidate all the assets of Halliburton and the other war profiteers to be used as war reparations.

This is not America that has done this to the world.

This is a deceptive, lying, criminal regime that seized power and manipulated the public that did this.

Let's give the criminals over into the custody of a World Court and beg for forgiveness.

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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Will the world forgive us if we don't?
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Doesn't matter -- we are obligated to turn him over anyway. nt
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. I would love to see them impeached and turned over to the World Court, but
it just doesn't seem very likely. Doesn't the Senate need a two-thirds vote (67 senators) to convict on impeachment? I don't see where that could come from. I get the impression from other threads that the best that one can hope for is 52 Democrats in the Senate. So some Republicans would have to vote for it. I believe that 6 Republicans voted against Clinton's impeachment. Even supposing that a similar number are willing to vote for Bush's impeachment (unlikely; it would be far more of a political risk to vote to impeach their own president than to acquit the opposition president), that would get the impeachment vote up to 58 senators - nothing like what's needed.

I hope I'm wrong.

I signed an online petition to impeach Tony Blair, which is being supported by some MPs, but is even less likely to happen than Bush's impeachment. Although the UK has never abolished impeachment as a possibility, no one has been impeached for about 200 years, and they're not really likely to start now. A pity!
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bpeale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
2. As much as we need to heal from * & cheney...
I would take it very badly if democrats refuse to impeach bush & cheney. It would just be something that (for me anyway) would go on & on & on ... at least the impeachment would be for the sake of the history books. otherwise it would look like we were all in agreement with everything that the republicans did during their 8 years. i just couldn't stand for anyone to think that of me or of anyone on this board. it's just too horrible to contemplate. i'm afraid i would have to then have to vote against any democrat that refused to impeach or actively go against them publicly.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
4. I would love to see it happen. If only wishing made it so.
Bush may be impeached, just as Clinton was impeached. Bush will not be convicted, just as Clinton was not convicted. It is a nice dream, but in reality it is only a dream.
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. We can make it a reality.
I think he will be convicted. 15 to a dozen Republicans will see the writing on the wall. If enough people scream their heads off and really put the pressure on them and make it clear to them that it will cost them in 2008 if justice isn't served, they will see the light.
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bpeale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. so many people have been hurt
that how will they ever obtain justice without that impeachment. its about more than lieing, etc. this is about justice for everyone ... especially those in gitmo & abu graib. we need justice to sterilize this situation.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. We're going to have to find something to convince them
I simply can't envision that many repubs voting to toss chimpy from office. Give me some reason to think it might happen. As much as we all might want chimpy gone, there is no public outcry demanding it that will make repubs suddenly turn on him, particularly in the reddest states. I can see maybe a couple of repubs making the leap, but not nearly enough.
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Like I've said before...
Crazier things have happened. Kind of like with Nixon and Watergate. Nobody thought anything would come of that, but eventually those Republicans saw the writing on the wall and told Nixon it was time to leave.

I have this feeling in my gut that someone or something wants Chimp and Cheney out. I think it's the shadow government. I guess it would be if the military industrial complex decided it really wanted Bush out of office. Financial reasons perhaps? Financial reasons was sort of the case with Nixon.
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elocs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. We pretty much know who the Republicans in the Senate will be.
Which 15 or 16 of them might be convinced to vote for conviction after impeachment? Are we sure that all of the Democratic Senators would vote to convict Bush? What if what the Senators hear from their home states is that most of their constituents do not favor conviction? What if polls show that most Americans do not favor conviction? These are very valid questions. Just because people do not approve of Bush does not mean that most of them want to see him convicted after impeachment.
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Independent_Liberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. We don't really know anything for certain right now.
Edited on Mon Oct-09-06 07:31 PM by Independent_Liberal
You're right, they're never are any guarantees. But if enough evidence, malfeasance, wrongdoing and criminal activity is dragged out from all THREE branches of the government by the investigative committees (yes, there are multiple illegal acts, corruption and cover-ups in the Congress and the Judicial Branch), then enough people might rise up and say it's enough for conviction. Only if the sound becomes really deafening.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-09-06 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. If we only get as far as the articles of IMPEACHMENT being approved
in the House and sent on to the Senate for trial, and no further, I'll be satisfied. That means that, if nothing else, it'll be on bush's historical record FOREVER. Whether or not it helped us get him removed from office. It'll be a black mark on his legacy from now on.

It's not just payback for Clinton. It's DAMNED WELL DESERVED.

BTW - here's my latest piece... ALL of which end with an IMPEACHMENT exhortation:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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confuddled Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-10-06 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
14. DIY
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