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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:49 PM
Original message
You know, Harold Ford is looking and talking like a real
budding national leader...

At least so on the last segment of Hardball tonight...

He effectively and with a maturity lacking in a lot of people populating the political class in this country, blamed the fiasco in Washington on the Republicans in charge, not the republican party....

In one swift stroke of his rhetorical sword, he cleaved the republican voter, at least in Tennessee, from the Republicans who now govern in the Elephant's shadow...

He also, rightly so, was talking about how important this election is for the young folks in this country and took care to embraced Al Gore and his concerns for the environment...

He was strident in his opposition to the current administration and yet said he voted for the War because he was convinced, as most people were, that Saddam was indeed a threat...

Think about for that for a moment....

How could the world step back from Saddam....

I mean, it was easy for us... We had nothing but our opinions, which were correct, I might add, at stake... They had political credibility as well as overwhelming public support against Saddam even before 9/11 began pushing the winds of war behind them...

And we must also remember that Saddam was playing on that reputation by continuing to defy the rest of the world in order to give him, well Cred, within his neighborhood...

We, a concerned and informed citizens, did not have to stake a career on defying convention... We hadn't committed time, political capital and natural resources to perpetuation the image of a lurking international menace roaming about Baghdad ...

It would have taken monumental courage for a political leader here or abroad to say that the dictator in fact had no clothes...

Or for that matter, to challenge the conniving bunch of one note Charlie's in charge of our country at the time...

In fact no one out side of the slight undercurrent of murmurs from Allies and Foes alike challenged anything Bush and, for that matter, Clinton said about Saddam....

So, Ford acknowledged that fact and then added that it wasn't the run up to the war that brands this as the administration that couldn't shoot straight but the fact that they can't admit a strategy is wrong at best and still pursued that very same strategy at worse...

Again, giving cover to those who were fooled by the Rush to war by not including them with the Circle B Crawford Crowd brand.....

So he was calling the Administration out on their competence, or lack there of, instead of getting down to their, meaning the current group of GOP'ers in DC, crude level...

This little exchange that I saw reminded me of the calm maturity of another certain leader from our Southern States; William Jefferson Clinton....

Now I am not saying that Harold Ford is in the same league as Clinton, by all means he is not, and I am surely disappointed that he didn't make more of an effort before the war, but I am seeing that same kind of even approach to political leadership that is neither inflammatory nor conciliatory but spot on right....

That, my Friends, is what I think makes a leader.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. Those are good observations ........
Ford is far from my favorite Dem, but he's good at what he does. You're right about how skillfully he threaded the needle.
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LisaM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
2. If they had decided to go after Saddam for human rights violations
I would have understood (though not agreed that we should start a war) the reasoning better. The fact is, they did not go after him for that purpose. There are many dictators around the world who are just as bad, if not worse, than Saddam, and we aren't lined up to go after them. Harold Ford was pretty rah rah about going to war, IIRC, and I don't recall his insisting that we make the reason that Saddam was a monster. This was simply part of the PNAC all along and I don't understand how people from Congress believe that we don't understand that. We do.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. But think about it....
No other dictator was hemmed in by the UN and the American military....

No other dictator was thumbing his nose at the UN and the American people like Saddam...

I truly understand your position and was personally 100% against the war from the beginning...

But you can at least see where these political people were coming from...

To them, it was the political equivalent of a slam dunk...

Or at least a very good lay-up....
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
4. He came across brilliantly
truly. Very impressive.
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. He's a little conservative for me, but I still like him alot.
I would love to see Tennessee with Ford as its Democratic senator!
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morningglory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
26. Representing a conservative state, he is probably doing what his
people want when he acts conservatively.
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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. Yes, and that is the way it should be.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
6. 23 Senators were smart enough to know Bush was full of shit
Or that despite what he said, knew that occupying Iraq would be nearly impossible. There were also 100+ congressmen who did the same. That said I'm being a team player and voting for Harold Ford this November. I might even volunteer for him. Taking back the House and Senate from the GOP is my number one priority.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Good for you...
I am lucky to have Kucinich as my Congressman...

Not everyone has the political machine and credibility he does to stand against overwhelming opposition...
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gully Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. Bravo to you. It's great to see an "informed" opinion on the war
as well.

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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:39 PM
Response to Original message
7. Harold is a HOTTIE ..
Maybe I should head down to Tennessee and see if he needs any help holding up his campaign signs or anything..



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tulip Donating Member (344 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Imus is always trying to hook him up
give Imus a call!
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I can't stand Imus --- what's his phone number?


Hey Harold.. you got some room on that bus?





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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. LOL....
Long time no bump into....
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. that lines starts right behind me ...
he is yummy

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PaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
8. I just can't excuse away a vote for the Iraq War.........
I understand the political high wire these folks had to walk, but so many have needlessly lost their lives in this fiasco. Any idiot with a library card or internet access knew that Saddam was not at all a threat to the United States. All that said I wish Ford the best and find him to be sharp and talented.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. Well at least Ford ain't running for President!
So I can swallow his Iraq vote better than the vote of others.....
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theanarch Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
9. leadership is not rationalizing your mistakes...
...after you made them; it's not making them in the first place, and it's calling others on THEIR mistakes in real time. If tens of millions of ordinary citizens had enough information to know that Iraq did NOT have anything to do with 9/11; did NOT have any ties or links to al-Qaeda; and did NOT have WMD's, then what excuse do 535 members of congress have for rubberstamping the invasion? Even now, 2,600+ dead GI Joe's and Janes later, over 120,000 dead Iraqi's (mostly civilians) later, over $300 billion in wasted taxpayer money later, most Democrats STILL can't admit the administration lied to them, STILL can't admit the media bullied them, and STILL can't admit that voting for this war was WRONG. Being slick is simply a useful, manipulative skill; doesn't count as "leadership" in my book.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. And how long did it take the sane people to convince those
in power that the Vietnam War was a bad thing...

Leadership is taking a situation and making it yours....

And convincing enough people that you are right...

How many people do you think feel foolish out there in this great country of ours for being duped by this administration...

Do you honestly think that everything would be all right if we rubbed that mistake into their faces ad naseum.....
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theanarch Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. to respond:
1) Read the Pentagon Papers; it was quite clear quite early to a lot of leaders that Vietnam was a mistake, although very few took the principeled stand of acting on it, until it became a political necessity by anti-war pressure from the people. Otherwise, Vietnam and Iraq are not analogous--yes, there are a few common, underlying themes (cultural arrogance, the myopia of elitist group-think, the cult of militarism, hubris), but otherwise are totally different: the fixed Cold War mentality v. the still free-floating, post-Cold War mentality of today; ideological imperialism v. economic imperialism; a strong, confident nation led by Greatest Generation-types v. an innerverated, anxiety-ridden country led by baby boomers; etc.

2) Leadership is setting realistic, attainable goals, and building a public consensus for them through coalition-building and pragmatic policies debated with intellectual honesty and rigor.

3) How many people feel foolish for being duped by Junior? Not many, i suspect. On one hand, there are tens of millions of citizens who WEREN'T duped to begin with, and who feel vindicated rather than embarrassed; on the other hand, you have some percentage (35% who still support Junior; 50% who believe Hussein was personally responsible for 9/11; 60% who still believe Iraq had WMDs) who are still duped, whether they know it or not (and i suspect many do). In between, you have those who changed their minds, who probably feel less foolish than angry about being duped.

4) No, i don't imagine "...everything will be all right if we rubbed that mistake in their faces ad nauseum"; but i do know that nothing will improve if we continue to NOT hold our 'leaders' accountable for their mistakes, even if it means pointing those mistakes out in excruicating and gory detail.

The US spent nearly one billion dollars looking for WMD's after the war, and we were told, in two reports, that there weren't any. This should have been the wake up call for Democrats (and more than a few Republicans one would think would know better--Chafee, Snowe, Spector, Warner, even Hagel) to withdraw their support for Bush's Iraq policy, but instead chose to remain Bush's enablers of (and in the case of Lieberman, among others, apologists for) this bankrupting, dangerous and failed policy. It would have been rediculously simple for Democrats to say that Bush asked for their trust on this, they gave it to him, and he betrayed that trust by lying and bullying them into war-of-choice based on false pretenses; that each of the (original) rationalizations for war (WMDs, links to al-Qaeda, 9/11) were lies, and together these are legitimate (indeed necessary) grounds for voiding their compact with Junior, and breaking the concensus for the war. Instead, congressional Democrats have inched away from Junior and his war as slowly (and timidly) as the public has run as fast (and militantly) as possible from it, and ONLY to the degree they (politicians) feel threatened by the peace movement in their own districts or states. The Democrats failure of intelligence and nerve on this issue, best exemplified by Hillary's elegant "triangulation"--from enthusiastic supporter of the war and uncritical supporter of Bush's handling of it, to not-quite-as-enthusiastic supporter of the war and nit-picking critic of Dumbsfeld's handling of it--is not the way to "lead" a nation where 60%+ want the troops OUT NOW.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
28. Did you get the impression that I supported the war.....
I watched Kucinich, a Friend of mine, consistently get somewhere in the vicinity of 5% when he was running on a peace platform...

People wanted revenge...

They wanted blood....

It's easy to stand on the sidelines and say this is what I would have done...

Try standing in the cross hairs and standing for your principles...

It's a lot harder than you think, my friend....
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theanarch Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. Well, i didn't stand on the sidelines...
...and can tell you a thing or two about how hard it REALLY is...froze my ass off at two weekly peace vigils (one i organized myself), and stood my ground when white boys in oversized pickups aimed their vehicles at us, while the cops sat by in their heated cruisers and laughed. I was on talk-radio shows (locally) and had listeners call in death threats against me, and i dared them to make good on their thuggery (they never did, the cowards). In 38 years of off-and-on left activism (so i took some time off to finish college, get married and raise a family, have a life), i've been phone-tapped, survailed, spit on, shoved, punched, billy-clubbed, tear-gassed and jailed. Obviously, these are not pleasant experiences, but i've survived them with my ethics and perspective in tact; and while i may not all that eager to repeat them, the fear of such will never intimidate me into aquiesence. And no, i didn't presume you supported the war.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. I've stood at polls when it was raining sleeting or snowing
to get the word out...

I went to countless meeting to try and persuade people to the leftist way...

I served as the Treasurer for both the Green Party and the Democratic Party...

I have run campaigns...

I have walked door to door...

I am 48 years old and my first act of political opposition was to organize a walk out at my Junior High School on May 4, 1972 to protest the recent killings of four students in near by Kent and to protest the war...

I have run for office several times...

I have been threatened but never hit... Scorned but never physically hurt...

I went to several candle light protest before and during the war....
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theanarch Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. call it even?...n/t
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:26 PM
Response to Original message
15. Supposedly there's an internal poll showing Ford ahead by 2
44-42.

I read that somewhere tonight, probably MyDD or Kos.
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SCRUBDASHRUB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. He is rather handsome.
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 09:40 PM by SCRUBDASHRUB
He's only 36. Daggg...

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sn102291 Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
17. I agree
But I think to criticize someone for voting for the war is a little iffy at best. From a political standpoint, you almost couldn't afford not to, because what if he really did have nuclear weapons? Then neither you nor anyone associated with you would ever win an election again. We also can't really blame them because of the fact that Bush lied at every turn about the evidence we had about Iraq. Blame Bush, not Congress.
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fairplay Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Harold Ford's political record according to TIME 8/14/06
p. 44 TIME 8/14........."The Congressman..........has voted to OUTLAW gay marriage and to REPEAL THE ESTATE TAX. He supports getting rid of the handgun ban in DC and says the TEN COMMANDMENTS should be posted in courtrooms around his state." He also favors school prayer. Well Ford may be cute and RIGHT for Tennessee, but with values like these he has no national future beyond representing his state. His success will give us the numbers to turn the Senate blue, and able to pick judges, but he will be wallowing in the DLC center right loser pit with other DINOS. Gang violence is epidemic in our cities, why would Ford be against a gun ban in DC. No wants to take away whatever firearm he has strapped to his body or pickup truck while in Tennessee.
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. He does what he has to do to get elected in.......
Tennessee!!!

Don't DISS Democrats please.

Who would YOU rather have elected fairplay, HF, Jr. or Mr. Dorker?

Go Harold, Go !!!
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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. He should be elected in Tenessee. OP said "national leader" though
I remember when he challenged Pelosi for the minority leader position. I was extatic he didn't get it - in fact I wrote letters to the DNC at the time.
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Maybe not a national leader.. but he is an "up n' coming Democrat"
I remember too when he challenged Nancy Pelosi.. I wouldn't have selected either of them actually.

We need someone who is INCREDIBLE on the stump!

Harold can hold his own, but he's not a brilliant speaker.. and Nancy Pelosi, while I think she's an awesome person, she stumbles and =blinks= way too much for someone who speaks for the party.

Doesn't matter anyway.. Murtha is taking over soon enuf.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. You are right about his speaking style....
It is very low key...

We shall see if he can grow into his postition...
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sn102291 Donating Member (7 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 08:21 AM
Response to Reply #19
48. Original Point
Thank you for this information. While it is perfectly alright to criticize someone for an issue they can get fully informed about, and Ford can certainly be criticized for many things, it is still not alright to criticize someone for voting on an issue that they do not know about. It is what they do after they become informed that counts.
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reyd reid reed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
25. Hear, hear...
Well said.

:applause:

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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
27. I was impressed with how well he carried himself today.
He was very credible.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
32. We've had enough of "leaders"
Fuck leaders. We need representatives. Not fucking "leaders."

The fetishization of the leader-principle is never more dangerous than when the so-called leader seems reasonable. We've had our fill of leadership. Let's start being a fucking democracy again.
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Iowa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 01:44 AM
Response to Reply #32
46. Exactly! And thanks for saying that.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
33. The more I read about him, the more I like him for Tennessee. (nt)
Edited on Mon Aug-21-06 10:52 PM by w4rma
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
35. Ford is not my particular cup-of-tea, but given the alternative....
...I'll be sticking his sign in my yard.
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. I think he's a good fit for Tennesse....
I have spent a lot of time over the past dozen or so years, in the Nashville area...

I would move there in a second if it wasn't for the politics...

I wrote an article comparing Cleveland to Nashville...

Cleveland because it has the rock Hall and Nashville cause it has the Country Hall...

I started it out with a description of Uncle Buds Cat Fish 'n Such....
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Nashville is not that bad when it comes to politics....
...Davidson County is solidly blue. Always has been. Our mayors are always Democrats, and come from the most Liberal area of town, i.e. East Nashville, which is the heavily populated and Democratic heartland of Nashville. Hence we get to choose the mayors... :D

Now, if you get outside of Nashville, well, it's a different story...
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Nashville the city....
But the state...

Oy...
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Robeson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:55 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. I don't have get out in the state that often....
...since we're the capital of the state, all the tax money comes to Nashville. No reason to visit the rest of the state that much... ;-)
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. I for one, would like to see your article.......
You could post it here........

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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. I am adding it to the ClevelandCurrent archives sometime in
the next week or two...
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CaliforniaPeggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Thank you........
I will look for it.........
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wiley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
45. Very Smart
Harold Ford recognizes that Republicans mostly know that their current leaders have done very bad and probably insane things to this country and its' future. But attacking the Republican voter by calling them stupid or bad never works. It makes their bad leaders manipulate and lie. Funny, that seems to work with the DLC sometimes as well.

I so hope that Democrats and Republicans who would vote Democratic Party candidates focus on 06 and not continue to sap energy and resources out of the Party by playing speculative reindeer games about 2008. Why do the GOP House races have more money than the Dems? Forget about Kerry and Hillary and Edwards and Warner and Bayh and whoever and focus on 06. Please.
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Tiggeroshii Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
47. Harold Ford will do great.
I think you all outta send him money.

Send money to Webb too!

http://www.fordfortennessee.com /

http://www.webbforsenate.com /

Okay. I'm gonna have a thread up soon about how DU should be more active in trying to inform DUers about the Dem candidates who need money. But Ford and Webb are definitely on the top of the non existing list as of now
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
49. It's amazing how good unrestrained ambition for power can sound
Edited on Tue Aug-22-06 08:27 AM by Totally Committed
and look to the voters... Look at the Clintons. People believe that positivity. They are "hoodwinked" by that charm. This guy is nothing but a second generation political hack who wants to do better than his daddy did. We have one of those in the WH right now, and we see how that is working out for us.

Negative: No, thanks... I have Harold's number. I'm not taken in. I've seen his voting record, thanks.

Positive: He sure is cute.

TC
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
50. by continuing to defy the rest of the world
How exactly was Saddam doing that? He allowed the inspecters in and allowed them access to anyplace they wished except his personal residence. He had no WMDs.. I repeat he had no WMDs. He met the world's wishes and got rid of all he had. It was Bush* that was saying Saddam was in defiance when as it turned out that was another LIE. Saddam was not in defiance at all. Or maybe I have it all wrong and we found those hidden WMDs that Saddam defied the world from obtaining... :shrug:
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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-22-06 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
51. Ford's stock went up in my book when he went to bat for Murtha
The footage of him racing across the house floor to call for sanctions against Jean Schmidt when she dared to suggest Murtha was a coward is a classic.

Anyway, he's grown on me.
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