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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:07 PM
Original message
Is Bush spying on Democrats?
I've made a couple of attempts to equate the president's wiretapping crimes to the Watergate scandal that caused the demise of Nixon and noone took the bait. So, third times being the charm, I'm trying one more time.

First some commentary:

Senator Diane Feinstein of California, a leading Democrat on the Senate intelligence committee, expressed support for the goals of the NSA program, while applauding the ruling. "I was briefed on the operational details of the NSA domestic surveillance program and believe that, with certain small changes, FISA can accommodate the program," she said. Yet she criticized Bush for using "brinkmanship" in his insistence on secrecy. "This court ruling upholds the basic principle that even the President is not outside the law and that he has exceeded his constitutional authority by implementing this warrantless domestic surveillance program," Feinstein said.

James Bamford, a respected author of books on the NSA and a plaintiff in the suit, called Taylor's ruling "very significant, because what you have here is a massive eavesdropping operation, the largest one in history. And it's a criminal statute that the President has violated," with jail terms dictated for violations. "Nobody's talking about impeachment," Bamford added, "but if you had opposite parties in Congress, you'd have a situation, I think, very much like Watergate."

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1228714,...


My reason for wanting to discuss this is because Nixon was brought down by authorizing the bugging of the DNC office at the Watergate. From my point of view, what Bush has done is exponentially worse.

Ok, nevermind that the NSA may be listening to my daughter talk about her latest crush and what so-and-so wore to school today. And, yes, wiretapping is an effective way to check on whether or not suspicious activity is taking place on the telephone. FISA was enacted to protect the American public from eavesdropping by federal officials and warrants for wiretapping are very easy to obtain from the FISA court. However, Bush has ignored FISA and decided that he would operate the wiretapping operation on his own autority. He is blatantly violating the founding principal of Constitutional free speech and privacy. He has shredded his Oath of Office and committed crimes of high treason against the United States. We already know all of this.

But by continuing to conduct this illegal wiretapping despite Judge Anna Diggs Taylor's ruling has left the door wide open for Bush's NSA henchman to gather intelligence on Democrats in an effort to subvert Democratic Party success in the mid-term elections, essentially committing the same "high crimes and misdemeanors" committed by Nixon. They are almost assuredly already doing this.

Where are our modern-day Woodward and Bernstein?
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. Of course he is. And this should be the message...
Bush** is spying on American citizens for his own personal political gain.

NGU.


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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Why doesn't he want to just get a warrant under the FISA?
Too much paperwork is such a lame excuse. It must be that they know the wiretaps they are making have nothing to do with terrorists.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. There's no other explanation. They know they wouldn't be granted...
...if they had to go thru the court.

NGU.


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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. like the president has to go himself to get the okay. one, it is hubris
and two, they are using the assets of the entire government to further the * crime family. they are listening to opposition strategy. they are blackmailing. they have no shame. they have no conscience. those who they helped them, they help when they are in office, to help them get back into office to help themselves again. this is how the * crime family has operated since grandpappy * helped the Nazi regime and before.

Kitty Kelly has a good book on this family. it's stunning.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. Now maybe the Dems should stop taking the high road and
swiftboat this family. You know they would do it if the shoe were on the other foot. I guess the MSM will not listen.
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. Wehre Are The Citizens
It didn't just take Woodward and Bernstein reporting it to bring down the Nixon administration, it took the outrage of the American people.

Unfortunately, Dubya is more clever than Nixon in this aspect. He has called these wiretaps part of the war on terror and if you oppose them, you must like the terrorists. And enough Americans are buying into it. Had Nixon tied wiretaps, etc to the fight against communism, Woodward & Bernstein's expose might have had a very different outcome.

OK - that's just off the wall speculation, so go ahead and refute away.
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theanarch Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. actually, Nixon's apologists and lackies...
...did try to invoke "national security"...the Plumbers, they said, were looking for evidence that Castro was financing McGovern's campaign, and laundering the money through the DNC, then headquartered in the Watergate.
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MnFats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. of course!
he's as vile as nixon, only stupid and ignorant
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. He makes nixon look like a choir boy.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. He's getting away with lots more than Nixon did...
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 07:18 PM by ClassWarrior
...and Nixon was no dummy. The Bush** Administration ain't stupid. They just play stupid on TV.

And THAT's how they get away with it.

NGU.


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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. IMHO he is and some time ago there was a little piece on NSA listening to
President Carter's talks with Cuba (As I recall)...

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Bob3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. is water wet?
Of course they are - hell the noise machine has routinely accused the Democratic party as being pro-terrorist, since that is the case, they would have to spy on the democratic party.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. Of course , that makes perfect sense.
We are being spied on because they call us names.
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Bob3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. I wasn't as clear as I should have been
They are spying on us cause they really think we're pro-terror when we oppose *'s policies. I'm not saying it's rational it's just what is.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
10. what a sad legacy we are passing on to future generations...
it makes me so sad...mad, but more sad..that we did not learn the lessons with Nixon..and we as a society are not in the streets demanding this mans impeachment.

fly
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sandyd921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
11. Why else wouldn't he go through the FISA court?
You can bet on it!
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. I would be surprised if DNC headquarters and the homes of
all DNC officers weren't bugged. Power is all that matters. Our constitution and our desires doesn't do anything to enhance their power, so they are ignored.


John Dean may be filling the role of a Woodward and Bernstein. Read his latest book. He really pulls no punches, nails them.

The real meat of the book is Frist and Cheney. He really knocks it out of the park. He builds his case well.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. Is Bush an Idiot? Does a bear **it in the woods? n/t
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Ino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
16. Of course he is!
It's as if no one wants to mention the elephant in the room. During those hearings, the not-sworn-in Gonzalez kept saying "the program we're discussing" over & over. I want to know what program he's NOT discussing. I want to see the list of people they've spied on. You better believe all the Dem leaders, pundits, Fitzgerald, Sheehan, Michael Moore, etc. are on it. If they'll spy on a Quaker meeting, they'll spy on anyone. No one has enough guts or conscience to talk about it, much less expose them.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
17. He was doing this before 9/11. You don't think Karl Rove would use
this tool to spy on their #1 threat? And that threat has nothing to do with terrorism. It has everything to do with keeping and expanding their power to know what the opposition is planning. It's a great tool for blackmailing renegades in their own Party, too. Not being accountable to anyone is icing on the cake.

"Life would be easier if I was the dictator." - GW Bush...you think he was kidding?
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sknabt Donating Member (209 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 10:29 PM
Response to Original message
18. You've gotta be kidding!
No, Bush & Company are spying on everyone!
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-21-06 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
22. Has been, probably since 2000
Ever since he was a teen * has considered himself to be above the law. Anyone who thinks he HASN'T spied on Dems is a Limbecile.
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