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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:44 PM
Original message
What Democrats need to do about Lieberman
First the Democratic Senate Leadership needs to make clear in both public and private that under no circumstances whatsoever will Lieberman have the senority he earned as a Democrat. He will be last in senority if he wins and will stay last in senority the entire time he is in the Senate as an independent no matter what happens.

Second, at every single campaign stop or press conference that Lieberman has he must be asked to forswear caucusing with the Republicans under any circumstance.

If we do that, then we strip Lieberman of a significant advantage without putting the Senate in jeopardy. We are in the majority if the Senate is 51/49 or 50/49/1. Any other option lets Lieberman use an asset he was given by our party to hurt our party.
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LA lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
1. Too late
Apparently Reid has already assured Lieberman he will keep his seniority on committees
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. NO NO NO NO NO. Link?
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LA lady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. He reiterated on a Sunday show
Lieberman dismisses such talk, saying he was given reassurance this week by Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid, D-Nev.

"Sen. Reid left no doubt in my mind that I would retain my seniority and committee assignments within the Senate Democratic Caucus should I be re-elected," Lieberman said Thursday, "and that has been confirmed to me by several other members of the Democratic caucus."


http://www.courant.com/news/politics/hc-lieberman0818.a...
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Good. Fine. Someone's lying.
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
2. How badly do you want the Dem House candidates to lose?
Do you really want to have the Dem candidates running against the three Republican incumbents in Connecticut to have to take a public stance on whether the state's incumbent senator should be stripped of his seniority? That stance may make left-wingers happy, but it's objectively bad for Connecticut, and the Republicans are going to use this issue to their advantage.

Talking about cutting off your nose to spite your face . . .

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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Lieberman is using Republican pollsters to get republican voters
to the polls. His presense on the ballot will doom those people. My remedy might get Lieberman to end his run which is their only hope. It should be noted that all the House candidates have to say is "that is up to the Senate".
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Do you even know what pollsters do?
They take polls, they aren't GOTV experts.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I am a mathematician
so I do have some idea of what pollsters do. One of those things is to give Lieberman talking points to get his voters, in this case Republicans, to vote. Lieberman is directly trying to maximize Repubican turnout for himself and doing that will sink those House candidates. Lieberman clearly doesn't care.
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
5. HE QUIT the Party. Now the party must QUIT HIM.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Absolutely not.

That kind of stiffnecked pride is something we can't remotely afford, given how closely balanced the Senate is likely to be.

*If* Lieberman wins the election, we *need* him back, even if there's a price.
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. that's very shortsighted thinking
in the long term, the message would be that primaries don't matter and it will embolden other losers to run as indies.

If the party doesn't care, why should any candidate respect the results of the primary?
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. If Lieberman wins, he deserves zip
Nix, naught, nothing for his selfish win.

He's dead last in Committee assignment. I don't care if he's the Chairman of the Toilet Cleaning committee, he needs to go lower than that.. Maybe Dead Elephants BBQ Committee.

Hawkeye-X
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. It's not a matter of what he deserves.
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 07:21 PM by Donald Ian Rankin
It's a matter of what the Democrats need to do to ensure that he votes with them.

I'm not suggesting humouring Lieberman because he's a good person to humour; I'm suggesting doing it in trade for his support - he is likely to have something the Democrats want, and they're going to have to give him something he wants in return.
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. He didn't quit the party. Have you checked the party's by-laws?
NT
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. is he on the Democratic line?
or is he on the "CT for Lieberman" party line?

Sounds like he quit the party to me, if he's running on the line of another party.
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Are you?
If no, then I guess you aren't a Democrat either.
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Hawkeye-X Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. By definition you are pro-Lieberman
therefore anti-Democratic and you must leave DU before you continue to violate DU rules.

When Lieberman went independent, he abandoned the principles of the Democratic Party, and he deserves absolutely NOTHING from the Democratic Party.

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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. So you'd agree that Jim Jeffords should never have been allowed
Edited on Sun Aug-20-06 07:28 PM by dolstein
to join the Democratic caucus. After all, he had spent his entire adult life working AGAINST the Democratic Party, whereas with Lieberman, has, at most, spend a few months. Surely you'd agree that the Democratic Party should have stood on principle and refused to admit Jeffords or, at the very least, insisted that he resign and run as a Democrat in a special election.
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LincolnMcGrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. apples and oranges Joe quit the party! Deal with it.
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. Actually, Joe didn't quit the party
He's still a registered Democrat. He's still a member of the Democratic Party. He's pledged to caucus with Democrats if re-elected. You may feel he betrayed the party, but technically, he's still a member.

Jeffords, on the other hand, never joined the Democratic Party. Not only did he never seek office as a Democrat, he routinely ran against and defeated the official nominees of the Democratic Party. And if member serves, prior to 2004, he had never endorsed any Democratic candidate for president.
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LincolnMcGrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Joe quit the party. He is not running as a Dem.


Jeffords is a non-starter here, so don't bother.
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. That's a nonsequiter
NT
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LincolnMcGrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Joe is running AGAINST the DEMOCRAT in Ct.
Deal with it.
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guidod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. You are absolutely right!!
And he lost to a democrat in the primaries. If he wins the nomination then he should be treated like any other first year Senator. No ifs, ands or buts about it. :wtf:
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dolstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. If party rules prevented him from doing this, why hasn't he been kicked
out of the caucus?
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. because it takes time to do that
and there isn't much left. Also, CT shouldn't be punished now for Lieberman's behavior since so far they haven't ratified it.
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LincolnMcGrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. Joe is running AGAINST the DEMOCRAT in Ct.
Deal with it.

Better yet, keep taking pot shots at Lamont.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. Jeffords had the key to the Senate
thus he could, and did, write his ticket. That is why I am saying we need to both take Lieberman's senority away and make him commit to not caucusing with the Republicans. We can't let Lieberman have the power that Jeffords did.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. You really must stop using Jeffords and Bernie
as your examples. It's such a bad comparison. First off, Jeffords switching offered the dems a HUGE advantage- control of the Senate. They would have been fools not to offer him ANYTHING to get him to caucus with them. It's just plain stupid not to acknowledge that. Also Jeffords did not spend his entire adult life working against dems: I know, I'm from Vermont. How the hell do you think he kept getting elected, first to the House and than to the Senate? Duh, because he was an honest, independent and moderate to liberal type who always stood up for a woman's right to choose, gay rights, special ed and the environment.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. He got the HRC endorsement against a gay Democrat
which speaks pretty highly for his record on those issues.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. If Lieberman is still a member of the Democratic party
then how can supporting him be "anti-Democratic" (party)?
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CTLawGuy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
37. I'm not running for office
and if I were and I lost the primary, I would have the common decency to drop out like the good Democrat that I am.
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. Exactly!!! n/t
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
14. there are only a few legislative days left in the session
Moving Joementum out of his committees would probably be moot and perhaps even counterproductive. The classy thing would be to let sleeping dogs lie and sort it out in the election. I don't subscribe to further punishing him; that is gratuitous. The primary was decided and his ultimate fate will be decided in November if he doesn't see the light before then and drop out. This line of venom could result in encouraging Democrats to follow him in his indie quest. It's never a bad idea to behave like grown-ups.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I should have clarified
He is entitled to those committee assignments and senority until Jan 3 2007. It is after that date about which I am speaking. But we need to make it crystal clear before that date what we intend to do and get him on record as well. I want him to drop out or failing that lose. He will do neither if both he and the voters of CT think that he will be returned with his senority in tact.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. * question *
WHEN the Dems take over the House and become the majority party and IF Lieberman wins as an indie, doesn't changing parties make him ineligible to retain that seniority with regard to assignments? Wouldn't a Democrat move up or into those positions on the various committees?


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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
31. It would entirely depend upon what the Democrats decide
Sanders had full senority in the House for example.
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Major Hogwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #14
43. I count 36 business days left in this session before the election.
4 day weeks, 9 weeks.

I think you may be right about it being counterproductive.

However, I think that Joe will vote for anything that the Republicans want to pass in these last 2 crucial months in order to show Connecticut Republicans that he represents them in the Senate.

Therefore, I think he should lose his seat on any committees he sits on as a Democrat since he has shed his skin and is running now as an Independent.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
15. Joe is not going to win..no matter what the polls say right now...
He might get 50% of the Repub vote on a good day. That would be 20% of the total votes cast. But if he can get 25% of the Democratic vote, he would be lucky. That would give him another 15% of the total votes. He would end up with about 35% of the vote and he would still be behind Lamont by a good 10%.
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Rageneau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Stick a fork in Joe. He committed suicide this morning.
As of this A.M., Li'l Joe has no chance of prevailing in Connecticut. His support was at least half Republican and he lost most of them today by calling for Rummy to go. The proof of this is over at Free Republic. Formerly considered by them to be the only reasonable Democrat, Joe is now being villified over there as if he were the Big Dog himself.

Lieberman has lost the Freepers. That means he has lost the right-wing GOP. That means he has lost the GOP as a whole. Watch him start to drop in the polls as if he were Cheney's latest hunting partner.

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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Yep...
That's why he has to fight like hell to keep the Democrats he had in the primary. That is going to be one big job, imo...
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #18
28. I LOVE your post!!!
& thanks for checking the nutters website.

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guidod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-20-06 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
39. Every Democrat should call Senator Reid's office
this week and remind him that Lieberman is not a democrat and he lost the primary. You can't run 2 democrats against one republican for any office. :bounce:
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