Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Why do DUers eviscerate Lieberman (and Clinton) but embrace Ford?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:10 PM
Original message
Why do DUers eviscerate Lieberman (and Clinton) but embrace Ford?
of TN who is as DINO as one can be?

From TIME

The Congressman who is running to replace retiring Bill Frist as Senator from Tennessee has voted to outlaw gay marriage and to repeal the estate tax, and wants to amend the Constitution to ban flag burning. He supports getting rid of the handgun ban in the nation's capital and says the Ten Commandments should be posted in courtrooms around his state. He favors school prayer, argues that more troops should have been sent to Iraq and wants to seal the border with Mexico.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,122338...

And, no doubt, he would have voted for both Roberts and Alito.

Next to him, Lieberman and Clinton are in the far left.

Do we really need someone like him in the Senate? I'd rather have a Republican. At least we will save future angst.

Add Casey to the mix and we might as well be called Republican Light.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. because they, like lieberman, will at least caucus with the dems
Lieberman was a conservative dem from a liberal state. these two are conservative dems from conservative states. run lihberal dem in those states and I'll support her, but any dem is better than any of the repubs out there. particularly frist and santorum!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Caucus for what?
Withdraw from Iraq? he will vote NO

Repeal estate tax? he will vote YES

Constitutional amendments to ban flag burning and gay marriage? he will vote YES

Separation of church and state? he will vote NO

Ban on guns in D.C. (not to mention assault weapons)? he will vote NO

What subject will he possibly vote with the Democrats?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. If dems take control of the Senate
they will set the agenda, not the repukes. That is a VERY big deal. Ford will vote to make a dem Majority Leader. If he makes it, he'll be a junior dem Senator, and even if his votes suck, it's better than having the repukes in the majority.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. self-delete
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 12:23 PM by cali
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
2. Geography
...and personality.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. Ford's in Tennessee. Remember "All politics is local" . (n/t)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
4. Tennessee is Red, Connecticut is Blue.
Any other questions?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. What does taking the Senate mean? Why not Zell Miller?
he was savaged here, too, and rightly so.

If you have DINOs who will not vote with the Democrats on: Constitutional bans of flag burning and gay marriage; repeal of estate tax; separation of church and state; withdrawing from Iraq - what good will it be to have him?

OK, this is TN decision, but what good will it be for the other Democrats to embrace him?

How can he possibly improve our position. Name one subject, please.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. He can give us the majority.
If you don't understand how that can help us, you shouldn't be posting on a political forum. You should instead be reading a politics 101 text book.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Oh, so now you are the gatekeeper of who can and cannot post here
I have news for you mister big shot: most people come here to ask questions, to learn and to express opinions. Will you put the same hurdle in front of voters?

Oh, I forgot, we used to have similar requirements but we banned them some 40 years ago. Sorry you lost. (not)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Hey, I'm not the one who looks ignorant here.
But if you don't know the basics of politics, it's probably not a good idea to spout off at the mouth like you do, and like you have. But hey, that's your choice.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. Senator Leahy as chairman of the Judiciary Committee
Senator Kennedy as Chairman of Health, Education and Labor. Isn't that enough for you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. OK, chairs of committees
but at some point issues are brought in front of the whole Senate, with Cheney, at least for two more years, as the tie breaking vote. Will Ford vote with the Democrats on the issues raised above, or with the Republican? And we already know that there are several other Democratic senators, again from Red States, who vote with Republicans so there goes your majority.

Again, it is up to the TN voters, just as Lieberman was up to CT's, but I find it strange with so much attack on Zell Miller - from a red state, too - and on Lieberman and Clinton, that there is not even a lament about Ford. What, is he "the crazy aunt in the attic" that no one is talking about?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Those issues will be altogether different than the ones under GOP leaders.
It shifts the entire debate on every single issue over to the left. What part about this don't you understand?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. You really don't get it.
Look, if the dems take the Senate, Cheney doesn't have a tie breaking vote. That's only if it's fifty/fifty.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Fifty fifty votes, not Senators
The Democrats had the majority in 1991, but Dan Quayle was on hand to break the tie vote - if needed - during the Thomas confirmation. As it happened, his vote was not needed, as 11 Democrats voted YES for a final 52 to 48 vote. (One Republican, Packwood, voted NO)

I think that I get it alright.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. i`ve asked the same thing here
and been shot down when i say anything about ford. i guess some think it`s not good to criticize the democrats
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. Sorry to hear that. I think that this is sheer hypocrisy to criticize
Lieberman and Clinton and others who do not want an immediate withdrawal from Iraq - but who are in step with other Democratic principles - but to embrace Ford. Or is him being black a factor?

Yes, all politics is local. It was up to CT voters to decide about Lieberman, up to TN voters about Ford, up to NY voters to vote for Clinton.

But clearly this concept was put in the wayside on these pages when it came for the first two, so why not Ford?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ovidsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. Shows you how much I know
I haven't been following this race. Maybe I should be.

Just where does this guy differ from Bush? He makes Lieberman look lika a, ummm... liberal!

PS - I LOVED the link in the article that shows how much Ford is a man "of the people".

NOT!!

http://www.fancyford.com /
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
33. Linking to a right wing trash site???
Disgusting. He's the candidate and control of the Senate depends on him winning. Even George Bush has brains enough to know that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. I don't... I see Ford as every bit as disgusting as Lieberman and Clinton
He's a much of a DLC shill-sellout as either of them. He's a Corporatist just like them, and he's as invested in the same DINO things as they are. Red state, blue state... doesn't matter to me. A DINO is a DINO is a DINO and never will any of them get my support for ANYTHING.

TC
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. I disagree
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 01:04 PM by politicasista
He may not be an ultra liberal and conservative on some issues, but Harold is smart, well spoken, and someone we will need coming out of TN. I am sick of ignorant, Bush Democrats coming from this state.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
9. Because people are naturally unreasonable beings and that's ...
hard for some of us to admit? :shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
11. If you are in a red state, you can say or do anything and get excused.
I am not on board with that concept anymore. I used to try to excuse it. But I don't anymore.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
19. I voted for him in the primary for the same reason i must
vote for Lincoln Davis.

Do you know how many times I've written or e-mailed Davis only to see him vote with Repukes?

But he's the only game in town and the idiots down here don't want anyone not "Christian" enough. They will watch their kids starve and their soldiers die and lose their jobs, homes, everything as long as gays can't marry. that and abortion are THE ONLY issues to a great many SOutherners. Stupid? Hell yes, but I'm a lifelong dem who also voted for Zell way back when.

And when I did, also casting a vote for Clinton, it did make a difference.

Ford is running some snazzy, very different ads than anyone else. Has one talking about raising soybeans for energy in TN, showing Bush kissing and holding hands with the Saudis.

He's not playing the vaslues card, but the local economy/working man/fed-up-with-Bush card.

And if he doesn't change once in the Senate, I'll kick his ass.

And look at it this way, compared to Frist he's Michael Moore.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
question everything Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #19
29. I understand and respect your decision
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 01:43 PM by question everything
just as I tried with the PA voters when they voted for anti-abortion Casey (you will not find me using the misleading term pro-life, and I wish that other DUers not.. was trained at NARAL back in 1990).

As many say here - this is local decision.

But Lieberman and Clinton are not viewed as local - as you can see from the ream of words on these pages. So I just wonder.

on edit: about Zell, I thought that his nomination of Clinton in the 1992 Convention was masterful. Did not follow him much until another convention, that of 2004..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
20. Funny how eviscerating Republicans rarely seems to be an option ...
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 12:36 PM by SaveElmer
On DU!!!

So yes, lets keep Ford from winning in Tennessee (btw the Primary is past), and make sure someone 4 times worse gets in there...



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #20
36. No shit
I was for Kurita, but Ford won and it's time to rally around him just the way it's time to rally around Lamont. I don't understand these people who bash our candidates into the dirt and then blame them when they lose.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
louis c Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
22. Who's running against Ford in Tenn. Primary
Oh, I know, no one.

you can't replace someone with no one, and you can't move someone to the left with a blank.

Remember, this is Tennessee. If this state voted for its own in 2000, Gore would be President. You have to look at the state when making these assessments. Still, I understand the dilemma, but we don't need ass-kissing from any democrat, and Lieberman is in a class of his own.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Actually there were some challengers
but no one with enough clout to get airtime.

i hate to say it, but I held my nose as i voted for Ford and Lincoln. they are the lesser of the evils.

You have to remember, many of the whites in the South are descendants of convicts and outcasts who were sent to the States as punishment. They carried with them that English/Scottish/Irish superstition, they put very little value in education ( the most prestigious Southern schools were started by Confederates if that tells you anything) and they think they are really supporting JESUS hisself when they vote against gays and abortion.

They don't see the moral problem with blowing up dark people for oil, they ridicule each other for getting any sort of education. How the hell else to you get some tool like Frist in the Senate?

You get him because most Southerners are superstitious and loyal to their ridiculous ideas about "Jeebus." They'll lose EVERYTHING if they think their preacher will pat them on the head. It's sheer ignorance, but they are proud and cannot see how they are shooting themselves in the foot by voting for tools of the Corporations. Honestly, they just don't think much deeper than 'what diddy tole me." It's sad, but the only Dem who can win here is the one who can play on their fears and ignorance.

I'd love to wake them all up and say GEORGE BUSH DOESN"T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOU!!!! but as long as he's against abortion and against gay marriage, they just don't seem to care.

Very sad, but that's reality.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KaptBunnyPants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
23. Because we can do better than Lieberman
As proven by his defeat in the primary, and Lamont's upcoming victory in the general. If you think we can do better than Ford in TN, then I highly suggest you go down there and get to work. Most here have written Tennessee off as too conservative to get anything better than a DINO from. Still better than a republican though, at least a DINO counts toward a Democratic majority. Pragmatism must guide your rage to achievable ends, otherwise nothing good will come of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Elidor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
30. I once said that he was better than the alternative
But I've learned too much about him since then. I actually don't know if I have it in me to cast a vote for the sonofabitch. I'd just as soon kick him in the shins for being a fuckwit.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
31. i don't embrace Ford! ..........he is war iraq war
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Spirochete Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
32. As a placeholder
In a red state, it's necessary to get any Democratt in that we can. Someone like John Kerry could not win in Tennessee, but if we can get someone in with a D after his name, that may give the Dems a majority in the senate. It's all about the numbers. Ford may be an odious choice, but he does count as a democrat.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:15 PM
Response to Original message
34. It's a big country with different view points
And has much less to do with the DLC than Blue Dog conservative Democrats. One of these days the light bulb will go on with DUers I suppose.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
35. you don't mean me
I have never had anything good to say about Ford's politics. Little Bushass kisser
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nealmhughes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
37. He is very handsome and a great speaker.
OK, that's his plusses...

There are some great "real" Democrats out there in Tennessee, like Phil Bresden....

Just like there are some great Democrats out there in Alabama, like Jim Folsom, Jr., Susan Parker, and the DLC-coached Roger Bedford...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Oct 31st 2014, 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC