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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:28 AM
Original message
The 49 State Strategy
according to WY dems...

JACKSON - Howard Dean, national chairman of the Democratic Party, was in Jackson Wednesday for a party fundraiser, a state party official said......

"There is a private little cocktail reception tonight. It's not a candidate event," Gierau said. He said no Wyoming Democratic candidates were planning to be at the event as far as he knew.
...
Dean likewise faced a frosty reception from Wyoming Gov. Dave Freudenthal, himself a Democrat.

"I haven't changed my position on Howard Dean," Freudenthal told reporters at his regularly scheduled press conference on Wednesday. "I didn't invite him, don't plan to meet with him. It's a free country, I guess, and he's free to go wherever he wants."

http://www.billingsgazette.net/articles/2006/08/10/news...


No, not you! I wasn't talking to you.

(no offense to the many terrific progressives in WY)
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eleny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:29 AM
Original message
"It's a free country, I guess"
He doesn't know?! :banghead:
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
1. I most certainly don't support Freudenthal's re-election bid either.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Hasn't he pretty much thumbed his nose at the Party before?
I seem to remember that.
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McKinneyIsAHero Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
2. The (D) next to someone's name doesn't mean much
It's just a letter -- a party affiliation. It doesn't guarentee what kind of person is holding it or the politics they support. As you can see here, there's a (D) in Wyoming who's apparently a jerk.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. so true, just ask your hero
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McKinneyIsAHero Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. I don't know why you have such a hateful grudge here my friend
I know her personally and I love what she does. Why do you have such a stick up your rear end about it? Just chill out.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #19
43. LOL!
The irony.

So you can criticize a Democrat but I can't, because you know her personally and like what she does?
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. That's some world class thinking there, Mr. Freudenthal
After all, Howard Dean can just channel a whole lot of money toward your next election campaign, can help get other Democrats elected in Wyoming, and make your job a whole lot easier. Whereas snubbing Dean will curry favor with the Dick Cheney faction of the GOP in your state, and we all know how crucial that bunch is to furthering the Democratic agenda.

Idiot.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Dean will do what he can to help Freudenthal, anyway
and I get that pols in WY can't exactly cozy right up to Howard. But it seems downright cowardly to go out of his way to be so inhospitable like this.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. Poor Dean...visiting relatives, getting R&R, a fundraiser by himself?
I was just reading that article and wondering why in the world?

This is pathetic. What makes it so sad is that Trauner sought Dean out and now sounds just like Freudenthal.

Are they really that afraid of Democrats like Dean going to Wyoming? It was posted at Kos by Kos himself for goodness sake.

Here is a Kos diary about Trauner, so it is no big secret if it was posted at Kos. This makes me sad that they act like this.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/7/17/135645/392

"I was going door to door, and I felt like I was in this little bubble and no one knew what I was doing," Trauner says. "I told Mike , `Get me 15 minutes in front of whoever you can, because I want them to know what I'm up to."

Trauner got an audience with Dean and stressed why the DNC chairman should support him with a business-based argument.

"This is essentially a cheap seat; this is not a $10 million race or even a $5 million race and so the return on the investment could be huge, because, let's face it, a seat is a seat," Trauner says."I wanted their financial support, but I also wanted them to know that I am not going to agree with Howard Dean or a someone from Massachusetts on everything. I am a pro-business, pro-gun Democrat.

The next day, the DNC featured Trauner on the opening page of its Web site. Shortly after, a Rasmussen Reports poll showed Trauner to be tied with Cubin 47 percent to 43 percent, (with a 4 percent margin of error) and Congressional Quarterly changed its status of the race from "Safe Republican" to "Republican Favored."



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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
6. Gee, and all Dean wants to do is make sure states like his aren't ignored!
what an asshole.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
7. We want your money, but we are ashamed of you....how pathetic.
Trauner was on the front page of the DNC.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
9. Here's Trauner's front page at the DNC website. Now he runs from Dems?
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Trauner's doing a great job
I think he may be able to win Cheney's old seat for the Democrats.

He's a good guy, too.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Edited....change to cold shoulder.
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 12:56 PM by madfloridian
Time for that to stop.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. I missed that
Where did the Trauner people do that? I read that he just wouldn't be attending the fundraiser.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. It is no secret.. This is part of the 50 state strategy...
I posted the Kos diary, and here is one from The American Prospect. Dean is helping Trauner, this post tells about how much raised, so why not go to the fundraiser?

Of course there is some effort in the article to divide, but they should all proudly go and say thanks for paying attention to our state.

This is part of the 50 state strategy.

http://www.prospect.org/midterm/2006/07/wy_at_large_pol...

"Trauner also owes DNC Chairman Howard Dean some thanks; Dean has helped fund Trauner as part of his 50-state strategy. According to a Roll Call report, the DNC has committed over $120,000 over two years to the state.

If Trauner and Tester win this November, itll mean more than just a couple of seats for the Democratic Party; it may mean a readjustment in how many D.C. insiders view how money should be spent, and where."



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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. I read all those links and nowhere do they diss the Party
Not going to the fundraiser is not dissing. It's possible he wasn't invited. The article quoted in the OP said the fundraiser was for the DNC. State party officials and candidates are not always invited to those. Trauner is a great candidate; I've met him and I seriously think he will win.

I honestly think you're jumping to a conclusion here. I agree that the Governor was over the line but I wouldn't ascribe the same actions to Trauner.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. where did he diss the chairman publicly?
do you have a link for that?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. See my posts above with the links to Kos and Tap..
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 12:44 PM by madfloridian
.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Okay, I read those. I'm still wondering where he dissed dean
:shrug:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Changed it to giving the cold shoulder.
In case there was more in the statement from his campaign..like he would have been proud to go.

I don't think the chairman, no matter who it is should have to pretend to be having r&r or visiting relatives or such.

It could all be a big joke, but right now at this crucial time it is not funny.

I don't believe red states get a pass on coldness and rudeness.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. thank you for changing it. Still,
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 01:05 PM by fishwax
I don't see anything wrong with not going to a fundraiser if going to the fundraiser might hurt one's campaign. Attendance at fundraisers is far from required, and he didn't diss dean publicly (it's not his style, from what I understand), so what's the big deal.

Trauner's time is better spent continuing his campaign of knocking on doors.

And I'd bet dollars to donuts that howard dean (who, i think, will eventually go down as one of the greatest chairs EVER) would see it that way as well.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
36. he dissed the chairman
because running away from the national party is what it takes to get a Democrat elected in Wyoming.

Wyoming is one of the few states where Bush still has a positive approval rating.

Dumping on Dean publicly will help the campaign, not hurt it. I'm sure Howard Dean is aware of this.

It's probably why he went there.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. But *where* did he diss the chairman?
Answer: he didn't. At least, not according to any story I've seen. Freudenthal yes, but Trauner no. I'm not sure why madfloridian has chosen to smear Trauner.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. I changed it to cold shoulder, but you won't read it.
It is rude for them to act like that in Wyoming, and I will not excuse it anymore since my hard-earned money is going to the 50 state strategy.

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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #41
44. I read it. Didn't see it right away, what with all the tubes on the
internets ;)

My hard-earned money is going to the 50 state strategy too, and for a couple of good reasons:

First, I want democrats to win this year, and Trauner has an excellent chance of picking up a bargain-basement, rusty-red republican seat that the democrats haven't seriously challenged for since the 70s.

Second, I want democrats to build the infrastructure to make future challenges in these states possible. Having grown up in Wyoming, I realize that any attempt to make that state blue (let alone progressive) is a project that will take time (several election cycles) and forethought. I think the 50-state strategy is a great way to go about it.

I didn't support the 50-state strategy so that dems in conservative states would genuflect to howard dean. And given the choice between having Trauner go to a Dean fundraiser in Jackson Hole and having a Democratic Congressman from the great state of Wyoming come January '07, I'll go with the latter. And I guarantee you that Howard Dean would make the same choice.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. You don't get it, do you?
This is not about your state or my state. It is not about Wyoming being any more special than Florida.

It is about being in it together.

It is not about Dean, but it is in a way. The DLC idea was to be like the other party and not hurt their feelings. So that is why red states have been given a pass for being rude and not wanting certain Dems to go there.

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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. No, you don't get it. It's about winning.
It's about winning in the short term and building the sort of infrastructure that will make it easier to win in the future. It isn't about one state being better than any other state--but in the past, wyoming and other red states have been thoroughly ignored by the dnc because they were considered lost causes. Thankfully, Dean has decided to revise that approach.

With respect to Trauner, it's about Trauner winning this year in Wyoming, something no democrat has done since the Carter administration. There has been exactly one democratic representative since the end of world war ii. Trauner is doing a great job of competing in that race, and he's done it without dissing the chairman or the party. I don't even see any evidence that he's given the party the cold shoulder, other than the fact that he isn't attending a fundraiser. Big whoop.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #39
51. I was referring to the governor
not Trauner. "Campaign" was the wrong word - it's Trauner who is running for office this election.

I don't know why MF has chosen to smear Trauner, I'm not a psychiatrist.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. gotcha
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 01:45 PM by fishwax
actually, both are running this election, but Freudenthal has a much easier road, given his high approval rating and the fact that, while wyomingites almost never elect dems to national office, it isn't unusual for them to elect a dem to the governorship.

:hi:
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #39
53. Agreed; he didn't
I still think, from what the state chair said, that candidates probably weren't invited. It was not a state party fundraiser rather it was for the DNC. Locals usually aren't invited to those kinds of things.

The Governor has made it clear over time that he's not tied to Dean and the DNC. Trauner has made no similar claims and I'm sorry he's been chastised in this thread unfairly.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #53
56. that's sort of the impression I get from the article too
it's pretty hard to tell whether or not it's something the candidates would even have any reason to be at.

Trauner seems to be running a sincere and honest campaign in which he openly ackowledges both his ties to the DNC and his differences. I would love to see him knock out Cubin this year. She's horrid.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #36
45. No more passes on dissing the Democratic party.
No more excuses.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #45
55. have you ever been to Wyoming?
It's really, really conservative. And they don't like northeasterners very much. Like Dean. Or Kerry. (or me, actually - to the point that I stopped telling people where I was from).

Bush won there by over 40 points in 2004.

Running away from the national party is a viable strategy in places like Wyoming. It's a viable strategy in a lot of red states. In Colorado last election, Ken Salazar didn't attend Kerry's campaign rally. Salazar won. Kerry lost. That's the way it goes out here in the wild west.


We've got a chance to get a Dem elected there this year - an outside chance. If dissing the Democratic Party or dumping on Howard Dean is what it takes - that's all the "excuse" I need.


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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. you make a great point that
freudenthal's comments about dean reflect not so much an anti-democrat stance as a regionalist stance. Folks in Wyoming don't like to be told what to do by anybody, and they don't trust people from the outside who think they know what's best for Wyoming (which is how northeasterners and the eastern establishment are often perceived in wyoming, as well as other mountain states).
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #55
59. Do whatever you want. I am tired of being made to be the bad guy.
Wyoming is racing to not appear with Dean, to be sure all the Republicans know that they don't approve of the DNC. And it is being turned on me here.

Even our very conservative Democratic party leaders here in Florida get their feet held to the fire when they try that.

We call them, we tell them what we think.

Wyoming can do whatever the hell they want. They can run from the Democrats, whatever.

But then they should turn down party money.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. you're not being made the bad guy
I've spent a lot of time over the last 25 years both living and working in Wyoming.

I'm just trying to explain, as someone who probably knows this part of the country better than you, what is going on here.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #59
63. the only thing being "turned" on you here is your own disinformation
You said trauner dissed the chair, then changed it to say he gave the "cold shoulder," when there was no evidence of that either. And then you claim that wyoming is racing to not appear with Dean, when in fact all we really know is that freudenthal was quoted saying something rude.

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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
11. Calm down...it is gonna take time...
The 50 state strategy is not something that is gonna turn around everything overnight. The fact that there is a Democrat in state-wide office in Wyoming is an accomplishment in itself...

I have no doubt Dean knew this was coming, and I would not be surprised if Feeudenthal has had private conversations with Dean letting him know this was gonna happen.



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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. That is hogwash, pure and simple spin...and the time for that is over.
They should NOT be ashamed to be seen with the party chairman, no matter who it is. They should not be running scared like that.



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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Wyoming is not Connecticut..
It is gonna take time...Democrats are not popular in Wyoming...

A good ground game is what wins in the long term, not the occasionally successful Hail Mary...

Dean is setting up a good ground game...let him do the job.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Oh, baloney. You don't make fun of your own party.
Even in Wyoming.

Stop lecturing me about letting Dean do his job. He is doing his job.

You were just advocating letting Lieberman keep his status in the party for fear he might go Republican, and now you are saying this is ok.

No, it is not ok. This has been going on far too long.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. Do you read my posts ?
I said no such thing...

I said it is politically stupid for the sake of Ned Lamont to strip Lieberman of his committee assignments...not because he might go Republican. I hope he does go Republican as that would seal his defeat

It provides no benefit to anyone to do that and could potentially benefit Lieberman...

I don't mind people disagreeing with me, but I do mind distorting what I say.

And I am sorry, but you are burying your head in the sane if you think anything like Lamont could happen in Wyoming. It is a miracle they elected someone with a D after his name at all...no matter how conservative they are.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Wyoming should not diss the party, period. Not now, especially.
That is my point. It is clear and simple. They are Democrats or they aren't.

This is a crucial time. There is no reason they could not attend Dean's fundraiser or acknowledge they were going.

This is about Democrats who want the party's support but then act like the Republicans want them to act.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Because...
In Wyoming Democrats are not liked...especially Democrats that are perceived as very liberal like Dean ( I agree he is not all that liberal...but that is the perception)...it is that simple...

I realize its childish, I don't like it either...but I am not willing to cast aside progress in such a red state over it...

And I'm sure Howard Dean isn't either...


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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. their election in wyoming is more important than your approval
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 12:39 PM by fishwax
and the fact that they aren't attending this fundraiser isn't a swipe at Dean. Freudenthal's comments are, clearly, but not going to Jackson Hole to meet with Dean doesn't equate to dissing the party.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Thanks- that's probably true.
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 11:54 AM by Rose Siding
And I don't believe Dean would take it personally at all.

Still, is it really necessary for them to go out of their way to snipe? I think that's cowardly.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. I disagree. It is NOT ok to diss your party.
That governor has been doing that since Dean became chair. Even in our state our party would stand up to crap like that. They would not run away from it. Our state party is not very much in favor of Dean, but they don't diss him.

We have excused stuff like that for so long, that red state people think it is ok.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. I don't think it's ok either and I didn't say so.
I *do* understand that photos of WY dems with their arms thrown around Dean wouldn't be helpful for them, but if he didn't want to say anything nice, he should have kept his yap shut.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. I think its childish myself...
But its gonna happen...Feudenthal knows that Democrats in Wyoming are generally unpopular, so we have to take it slowly...

The fact that we are in there at all is progress.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. I guess I lost this round. Will do a disappear from this thread.
You guys seem to think it is ok, I don't.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
37. Just slinging mud and leaving eh?
You make all these accusations about Trauner dissing Dean, but have yet to back that up.

Freudenthal shouldn't have said what he did, but that's no reason to try to discredit the first legitimate democratic house candidate in wyoming since the 70s.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. I edited my subject line, now you edit yours.
Red States don't get a pass on rudeness, not when my money is going to them as part of the 50 state strategy.

Rude is rude.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. Thank you for editing your subject line
I'm glad that you chose to stay in the thread and clear up the charges against Trauner rather than leaving, as you indicated you were going to.

I agree that rude is rude, and that red states don't get a pass on rudeness. But there's nothing rude about not going to a fundraiser.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. If that is all the campaign person said, then it is not polite.
The article could have snipped portions, but Dean is giving that state money and should not be treated in a manner that seems like they are defying him as chairman.

Wrong.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. Freudenthal has butted heads with the national party since before dean
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 01:37 PM by fishwax
came aboard. A few years ago he told state dems that he had basically given up on the national party--and really no wonder, since the national party had long cared little about wyoming.

I'm not sure why (or, truthfully, to what degree) Freudenthal remains critical of Dean, since one of the main thrusts of Dean's chairmanship is designed to counter that very oversight. But I agree that Freudenthal's comments about Dean were unnecessary.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #52
65. They almost all do
It's very difficult for rural/red state Dems to win with the national party platform and that's been true long before Dean. They equate things like regulation of snowmobiles with national democrats who have no comprehension of how destructive that would be to local economies. It isn't Dean's fault, but he sure hasn't done enough to really open communication between rural and liberal and that's what is really needed. And an end to the snark as well, I'd agree Freudenthal and others like him need to stop with that shit, it needs to stop from both sides.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #65
67. that's true, and at the same time
it's been very difficult for dems in small, red states to get much support from the national party, since they've been considered pretty much irrelevant. That's one thing that Dean has certainly taken steps to change, and I actually think he's done a good job of giving red state dems both access to resources and flexibility in terms of the national program. Clearly, though, it's a long process that will require more than an election cycle or two to really take hold.

Regarding Freudenthal, it just strikes me that much of his (understandable) criticism of the national party to local democrats (as opposed to wyomingites in general) concerns the same issues which dean's 50-state strategy was meant to address. I would think Dave would be on board with that, whether praises dean publicly or not.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. Yet there was a Dem/Dean fundraiser there
Which would seem to indicate some Democratic support for the national party platform and strategy from somewhere in Wyoming. The folks who attended that fundraiser are the ones who are going to have to drag the local Dems into the national debate and serve as the conduit between liberal and rural, it seems to me. When I read things like that John Gibson column today, I just shudder when I think of what must pass as news to some of these rural areas. Somebody has got to get even beyond grassroots to the plain old roots and start correcting some of this complete trashing of the Dem party that has been going on. But like I said, it also has to filter out so that those same people feel like "big city eastern libruls" understand them and their needs. I'm not blaming Dean at all, but I sure had hoped we'd have made more progress by now.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #68
79. I understand the WY Dems had nothing to do with the fundraiser
That was in another post in this thread.

In many cases, the local Dems are not included in these private fundraisers.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. People flew into Wyoming for the fundraiser???
Where'd they come from if not Wyoming?? Jackson Hole has a fair number of liberals and wealthy ones at that.

Trauner says "I wanted their financial support, but I also wanted them to know that I am not going to agree with Howard Dean or a someone from Massachusetts on everything. I am a pro-business, pro-gun Democrat." That's my point, rural Dems think there's a difference between them and someone from Massachusetts when Kerry was probably right where Trauner is on business and guns. He knows he has to "get people past the label" so why is it that so many at DU are completely tone deaf to this when it's what these folks are saying themselves. Until that 'label' is broken down, people like Trauner have no choice but to distance themselves from "massachusetts" national party politics. At the same time, they need to educate themselves and help the process along which they aren't doing either.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. Perhaps I wasn't clear
I meant the Wyoming Democratic Party.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. I meant local people
Big D and little d, really taking on the right wing smear machine and pushing the change from farm to farm if necessary.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
27. What's wrong with this thread is what's wrong with the party.
Too many are still thinking it is ok to insult the Democrats and pretend it is ok in order to win.

They should have, everyone of them, been there at the fundraiser, proudly, very proudly.

They should not ever have even thought of distancing themselves from it.


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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. No one here said it's "ok" to insult the party.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. You can't argue with people who don't get it
Edited on Thu Aug-10-06 12:49 PM by depakid
They're part of the coalition of the losers- the people whose sort of thinking has made the Democratic Party largely irrelevant in national policy making.
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Change has come Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
58. There are two separate stories here
Gov Frudenthal is a jerk.

http://www.casperstartribune.net/articles/2006/08/10/ne...

*snip*

"I haven't changed my position on Howard Dean," Freudenthal said. "I didn't invite him, don't plan to meet with him. It's a free country, I guess, and he's free to go wherever he wants."



Howard Dean was not in Wyoming for a Trauner fund raising event.

*snip*

Bill Luckett, Wyoming Democratic Party spokesman, confirmed that Dean was in Teton County for a fund raising event. He and other party leaders had no details about Dean's schedule, and said state Democrats had no ties to the function.
The (Democratic National Committee) does a lot of things that they don't keep the state party in the loop on, which is fine, Luckett said. Kyle DeBeer, executive party director, said national political figures occasionally cash in on fund raising events in Jackson, which is known for its wealth. I don't know of any (Wyoming) candidates who will be attending Wednesday night's fund raising event, DeBeer said. Linda Stoval, campaign manager for Democratic U.S. House candidate Gary Trauner, said she'd heard that Dean was in Wyoming but had no details about the visit. I know it isn't related to our campaign, she said.


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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Thank you
That should clear things up.

No one dissed Dean (well, maybe the Governor.) The Wyoming Democratic Party is working hard to elect Trauner to its one Congressional seat. I wish them luck. They know how to run things in their state.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. thanks for that additional info
so attendance (or lack of attendance) at the fundraiser had nothing to do with support of dean or the dnc. The original article seemed ambiguous, and I thank you for bringing in something that cleared it up.

(incidentally, i know bill luckett from a long time ago. It's cool to find out he's the state party spokesman.)
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IronLionZion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
49. Freudenthal is one of the most popular governors in America
and will win re-election easily this year without much effort or money in a radical reactionary red state. Simply because the governor's effect is local, not national.

Many red-state Dems choose to distance themselves from the national party and that's a shame. But he doesn't have to go out of his way to insult the party when they are there to support him and his state. What an asshole.

Like it or not, Howard Dean's Democratic party is a national party and supports candidates in all 50 states plus our offshore territories. Wyoming is no exception, and Dave will just have to learn not to bite the hand that feeds him.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
64. They run away from the national party
Local Dems are going to have to make the changes in any given state, and some folks are going to have to accept that the way issues are talked about will have to vary from region to region. It doesn't do any good to go to each of the fifty states if you aren't listening while you're there and bringing what they say back into the national platform.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
66. DNC has promised over $120, 000 over 2 years to the state.
Not as much as some states get, granted. But not as big a chance at pick-up either. But it it is something. Dean is also helping Trauner as mentioned above.

http://www.prospect.org/midterm/2006/07/wy_at_large_pol...

"According to a Roll Call report, the DNC has committed over $120,000 over two years to the state."

There is no reason for that state to be afraid of working together with the party. It is just an outdated notion, this distancing stuff. This is the result of a over a decade of the party trying to cater to Republicans, this distancing tactic. It does not need to be.

More on the DNC help here..it is a beginning.

http://www.westerndemocrat.com/2006/07/50_state_strate....

"In 2004, Mike Gierau and other Wyoming Democratic leaders wanted to boost the Kerry-Edwards ticket's local profile by securing some bumper stickers. But helping local Democrats in a state that the ticket was certain to lose in a landslide was not exactly the first priority of either the national party or the presidential campaign. So Gierau, now the state party chairman, was reduced to ordering the items from an online store.
What a difference two years - and a new Democratic National Committee chairman, Howard Dean - can make.

As part of Dean's strategy to build up the Democratic Party infrastructure in all 50 states, the DNC has committed $120,000 to Wyoming over two years - enough to hire a field director and a communications director, rather than just an executive director, as in the past.

The DNC also donated $5,000 to jump-start the party's grass-roots organization, said party executive director Kyle DeBeer. The party plans to have teams of 25 volunteers deployed in 57 key precincts on Election Day."

We are all in this together.
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Change has come Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. $120,000 is great news.
After reading the links you provide, I don't see proof that any of this money has gone directly to Trauner. It seems to be an initial start-up for the Wyoming infrastructure and it looks like the local Dems are thrilled with the support. Wyoming and many parts of the West has been neglected on a national level and the local republicans have used this fact to great advantage.

I was born and raised in Wyoming and would dearly LOVE to see Barbara Cubin defeated. This woman has offered nothing to the State and her continual and unquestionable support of the right-wing Congressional leadership has caused great damage to our Country.

If it turns out that Mr. Trauner publicly distances himself from the DNC, I will be disappointed. If he can use the current political climate to his advantage and acutally win this race, I will be thrilled.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. We have donated to Trauner. I like Trauner.
The day after he was given front page at the DNC he got a boost both financially and namewise.

I wish him the best of luck.

Yes, some money has gone to him because of the DNC's boost. Part of it was ours. If you do a search there is more, I am sure.

I am just not giving even governors of red states any more passes on being rude. Ford has done the same thing, blaming it on being from TN. He goes on Imus and other shows to lecture us and blast the chairman. Not excusing red states anymore.


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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #69
75. Hi sgcase!
Where in Wyoming are you from? (I grew up in Sheridan. I too, would dearly love to see Cubin get beat. She's horrid.)
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Change has come Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. I'm from Lander
:hi: I'm currently living in Nevada but will always consider myself a Wyomin' Boy! Sheridan is in a beautiful part of the State. Did you know they now have Air America? http://www.airamerica.com/stations

Times are changing!
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. wow, that's quite a surprise
I never would have guessed they have air america in sheridan. It really is a beautiful part of the state, and I still have a big place in my heart for nw wyoming and wyoming in general, even though I haven't been back to sheridan in several years.

Always good to see other wyomingites on DU. I've been to Lander a couple of times, though I'm not super familiar with it. Riverton, yes, but Lander no. :)

Times are changing!
I hope you're right. :hi:
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #66
71. it's a great beginning, and points towards an even better future
I think it's a good investment from the national party, and will pay immediate (and lasting) dividends if Trauner gets elected this year. (If he wins this year, he stands a good chance of being in congress for a while. Wyoming hasn't kicked an incumbent out of national office since 1976, and only once since 1964.)

I applaud what Dean has done, and I also applaud what the state democratic party there has done. They sought help from the national party, got it, and are, I'm sure, putting it to good use. Freudie may have said rude things in public, but that doesn't mean that the state party has. Trauner says (as candidates pretty much everywhere that isn't completely controlled by machine politics do) that he's a democrat who differs with the national party on certain issues. And it's been printed in various stories about him in the wyoming press that he has solicited dean's help, telling dean that he was an economical buy but that he differed from the party on things like gun control, just as it mentioned in the kos post that you linked to above.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with that. I don't think wyoming dems are attacking the party, simply pointing out to their constituents that there is plenty of room in the state and national party for people who don't agree 100% with the national platform. That's not as nice as having a genuine progressive tidal wave in wyoming, but, as you say, it's a beginning :)

Thanks for posting these articles, I found them interesting :hi:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. Could you please tell him Dean is not for gun control?
He keeps referring to the fact that he is pro-gun. He does not seem to be aware of Dean's stance on this. He needs to check on it. Also Dean always governed as very much a pro-business governor...people just think we Deaniacs are too stupid to know it.

Many of their stances are the same, Trauner may not realize it. Dean was endorsed by NRA 8 times I think.

Most of us are far more alike than we are different, and we have let the other side divide us.

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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. but the party is for it
First, I'm not sure he ever said that Dean was in favor of gun control. In the article quoted in Kos he says: ""I wanted their financial support, but I also wanted them to know that I am not going to agree with Howard Dean or a someone from Massachusetts on everything. I am a pro-business, pro-gun Democrat."

I wouldn't be surprised if Trauner realized how close he and dean really are on several issues. If Dean had had the chance to get his full message out in the '04 primaries, I think he could have played very well in rural conservative states, but he was always painted in the media as a flaming liberal because of his anti-war stance.

Proclaiming oneself a pro-business, pro-war democrat who isn't going to agree with the northeastern establishment on everything is not about dividing us, it's about reaching out to others in wyoming who might be receptive to the democratic message, thus bringing new people into the fold.
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
73. The "50 State Strategy" isn't necessarily about supporting those in office
It's about building the Dem Party from the ground up, across all the states, and eventually the people in each state will have "real" Dems in office. Only so much can be expected when the environment is so Rightward-tilted.

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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:09 PM
Response to Original message
77. Can he spell L-i-e-b-e-r-m-a-n?
Gov. F. should start paying attention.
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