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I'm not usually one for "conspiracy" theories...Lieberman prediction

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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 08:56 AM
Original message
I'm not usually one for "conspiracy" theories...Lieberman prediction
Edited on Sat Aug-05-06 09:00 AM by SaveElmer
So I will call this conspiracy speculation...

My gut tells me Bill Clinton, Barabara Boxer et al have a tacit agreement with Joe Lieberman to campaign for him, if he agrees to drop his indie bid if he loses...

My prediction is that Lieberman loses on Tuesday by between 7 and 10 points, and announces the next day "for the good of the party" that he has decided not to pursue an independent bid, and will endorse Lamont.




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Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. What is the difference between "conspiracy" and "strategy" here?
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Well a conspiracy...
Is a plan hatched among 2 or more people. A conspiracy can included a strategy, but not all conspiracies have a strategy.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
2. I hope, for the sake of the Party and for all our sakes, really...
that you are right about this. That same thought has crossed my mind, but Lieberman is such a loose cannon.

TC
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
4. nah, here's MY conspiracy theory
which is actually a conspiracy....
Sen. Clinton greases the skids for Rumsfeld to be forced out, since they know Joe won't win the primary.
Immediately after the primary, and Joe loses, he replaces Rumsfeld. The DLC wins, the RNC wins, and Sen. Clinton triangulates to the "center" again.
Bill Clinton, now chummy with the Bushes, before he goes on stage, tells Joe what's Up. It takes a long time, because even though Joe will get to be secretary of defense, he still holds out vain hope for the primary. Bill is the messenger for Bushco on this.
And the democratic party wins, because without Lieberman in the independent slot, the republican candidate is toast.

you may consider this a theory, but watch and see if what I predict does not come to pass.

I suspect there is a direct relationship between the neocons and the DLC, and if Lieberman replaces rumsfeld just like I say, I will be even MORE convinced of the collusions.

yes, yes, I have no proof whatsoever, this is just my theory.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Creative...but highly flawed...
First, it requires Bill and Hillary Clinton to be traitors to the Democratic Party...which is of course utter hogwash

Second, conspiracies only work if they are kept relatively simple. A dolt like George Bush is nowhere near smart enough to understand, let alone execute a plan such as this.

When you get too many people involved in a conspiracy, it becomes impossible to keep it secret.


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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. we'll see, won't we?
its a theory. If rumsfeld is forced out by Sen. Clinton and replaced with Joe, we'll see at least part of my theory fits observable data.
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
5. I live in CT, and I heard this a few days ago.
I didn't post it, because although the person I heard it from stated it as fact, it still sounded like speculation to me.

The person I heard it from is quite active in CT politics. Who he heard it from, I don't know.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Well if the reports of 817 signatures is accurate...
I don't see how Lieberman could possibly collect all the signatures he needs. Don't they have to be submitted by next Wednesday? Maybe he already put the brakes to it!
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. 817? Wow, I missed that!
Yes,they do need to be submitted on Wed. Do you have any links on that?

BTW, any word on how Rep. Diana Urban is doing on her signature drive? I haven't heard a word since she announced her intention to run.
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femmedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
15. I just checked into that 817 number.
It sounds to me like the Lieberman camp is just sitting on their signatures, because they don't want any press surrounding their petition drive.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
8. That sounds like speculation to me. Not conspiracy theory. Politicians
make deals like that all the time. My be the Clintons don't want to the the Democratic Party diminished by Lieberman bolting to the Repukes. That sounds smart.

Who knows if it is true. But you are speculating. That's the word.
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calico1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. I know that at least in Clinton's case
he came to support Lieberman with the condition and understanding on Lieberman's part that if he loses in the primary he will lose Clinton's support and Clinton will then back Lamont. That was mentioned in the news. I also believe that another condition to Clinton's support was that Lieberman not run as an Independent.

The Clintons as well as other "Centrist" Democrats like Lieberman. He is one of theirs. But...he is not more important to them than holding the Party together. THAT is the priority for the other Democrats. Knowing Lieberman's past demostrations of utter selfishness it would not surprise me in the least bit that he does run as an Indy. In which case the Democratic party will throw him overboard as far as him being a good Senator, friend, etc. I really don't believe that he would be offered job of Sec. of Defense. Unless possibly he switched to the Republican party. The Republicans like Lieberman because he allows himself to be used by them. He thinks they respect and admire him. They don't really. But he is so easy to use and they love having a "good" Democrat that they can show off. He is mostly just a tool to them.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Right. You know some stuff. And the rest is speculation. You don't have
Edited on Sat Aug-05-06 01:35 PM by applegrove
an overwhelming amount of known facts to base the speculation on. So just admit your are speculating.. when you say it. Say..this is my guess. Or use IMHO. Just be clear of what the guessing is. Cause you are not a fly on the wall. Nor are you witness to more 50 bits on info on the current Clinton - Lieberman relationship. You have about 3 bits of info. And that is all.
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calico1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I didn't know that to express my opinion
Edited on Sat Aug-05-06 01:55 PM by calico1
I had to specifically indicate it was my opinion. I'll try to remember next time. :eyes:

By the way I live in CT so while I don't claim to be an expert, I do see a lot more of what goes on locally than someone who is not from the State as do other CT residents.

Edit: The last statement is my humble opinion. ;-)
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. You OPied with how you were making a "conspiracy" theory. Which is
wrong. You were just speculating. You opened up the topic of what your supposition was by calling it CT in quotes. NO?

Saying some people who know each other and show a pattern of working together as colleagues over years (like Senior Tri-State Democratic Senators)..might be working on something new ... and you are guessing what it is..is not a consiracy theory. Otherwise.. every set of chefs in every restaurant in the land.. let alone groups of closely aligned politicians.. would be up to a conspiracy.

Just trying to keep it clear.

Cause there are nasty freeper GOP Kaos manual for the New American Century types who log on and try and obfuscate our discussion. And I know you are not one of them.

So when you use something totally wrong... even in quotes.. expect a comment on it.

Just say you are guessing or speculating. Don't debase your own discussion with wrong labels...cause you debase us all. And our discussion.

I was interested to hear your speculation. Yup. I hear Hillary is supportive of Lieberman till he looses too. I have no ideas if there is a deal beyond that. But I was curious to view your post.. and enjoyed it.. after skipping over the CT (conspiracy theory) label.
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Iniquitous Bunny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
9. I wouldn't be surprised.
I think it will be, "Joe, the party did all we could. Now play by the rules."

He's toast as an independent. He'd be a successful Republican though.
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DODI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
12. I agree with what you say except for endorsing Lamont.
I don't think he will. If he has proved one thing with this campaign it is that is is a very petty person.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
14. The word..
... "conspiracy" has so much baggage as to be useless to describe something like this.

"Agreement" would be more like it. And I've heard the idea before and I give it 50/50.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
17. I agree with your speculation
I think Clinton's appearance in support of Joe - and his subsequent announcement that he would support the winner of the primary - indicate that Big Dog's help was conditional on the promise that Lieberman accept the results of the primary.

So there are two options if Lamont wins: Lieberman will a) respect and abide by the wishes of Clinton and the party establishment and abandon his independent run or he will b) run as an indy and caucus with the Republicans if he wins.

I don't like option B at all, but I really feel that if at this point he runs as an indy it be will a complete and total severance of ties with the Democratic party.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-05-06 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I agree.
I think it has been made clear that the Dems en masse will support the winner of the primary, as it should be. His withdrawal from the race after the primary will not be done for honorable reasons, i.e., the preservation and respect for the democratic process, but rather because he will find himself out on a limb, alone, lending credence to the notion that you reap what you sow.
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