CBS News: "The Scariest Damn Film You'll See this Year" 4 Stars

[madmunchie]

CBS News: "Four Stars (Highest Rating).

AMERICA: FREEDOM TO FASCISM

The scariest damn film you'll see this year. It will leave you staggering out of the theatre, slack-jawed and trembling. Makes 'Fahrenheit 9/11' look like 'Bambi.' After watching this movie, your comfy, secure notions about America -- and about what it means to be an American -- will be forever shattered. Producer/director Aaron Russo and the folks at Cinema Libre Studio deserve to be heralded as heroes of a post-modern New American Revolution. This is shocking stuff. You'll be angry, you'll be disgusted, but you may actually break out in a cold sweat and feel a sickness deep in your gut; I would advise movie theatre managers to hand out vomit bags. You may end up needing one."


http://www.freedomtofascism.com/trailer/AMERICApromoV1....

Primary Objectives

Stop the polarization of America
Stop the domination of the Democratic and Republican parties over our political system
Shut down the Federal Reserve system
Return America's gold to Fort Knox and have it audited
Have Congress and the IRS, in a public forum, reveal the law that requires Americans to pay a direct, unapportioned tax on their labor.
Make computerized voting illegal in all 50 states
Keep the internet free and out of the control of large institutions
Rescind the law called the Real ID Act so Americans never have to carry a National ID Card
Make it illegal to implant RFID chips in human beings
Educate juries to the fact that they have the right to determine the law as well as the facts of a case
Educate juries to the fact that they are not obligated to follow the instructions of a judge
Stop Globalization because it is the path to a one world government
Protect our borders
Restore the environment
Put an end to the Patriot Act
Sign up millions of Americans so we can accomplish our objectives

http://www.freedomtofascism.com/index.html


If interested you can read these:

http://www.canadianliberty.bc.ca/relatedinfo/dick_eastm...
http://www.federalreserve.gov/FOMC /
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/reserve.htm
http://www.worldnewsstand.net/today/articles/fedprivate...

[Homer Wells]

1. HOLY CRAP???

Is this for real???

K&R

[madmunchie]

5. Yes, it is and we need to let everybody know about this

[papau]

21. no we don't - progressives need not endorse right wing crap n/t

n/t

[rman]

28. When RW-ers say grass is green, is it crap?

[ToeBot]

29. Maybe, I'd check a pantone chart just to make sure they weren't lying

Just to be on the safe side.

[rman]

30. Fair enough. Problem is some would dismiss it outright just because

it's said by the RW.

[readmoreoften]

34. RW & LW are only half of the picture.

Are they RW authoritarians or libertarians. LW authoritarians or libertarians. In many ways I have more in common with a RW libertarian than a LW authoritarian. These people are for BRINGING BACK VOTING. They see through BUSH.

Yes, when they vote, they will vote against more taxes and against LGBT people and against women. But right now we have a totalitarian society that is against all these things. Hell, let them help us bring back real voting and then let's vote against them!

All the better that RW libertarians are saying that it's a fascist state. It'll help wake up the sheep. The left CANNOT wake up the sheep. We're only 50% of the country. We need the only 50% to wake up their people.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

75. What makes you think libertarians will vote against LGBT?

All the ones I know think like I do about it, it's none of the governments damn business.

[madmunchie]

47. This film points the finger at everybody, not just the left or the right

If all of this information is new to you, I could understand why you would view all of this as a wacko radical kind of a thing. But it isn't wacko or made up. Our rights and freedoms are being taken away on a daily basis. I think that we can all agree on that at least. This movie and these facts make up the whole story.

Computerized voting - - vote theft, we need a paper trail or we need to abolish computerized voting

The two party system is becoming a one party system with very few differences

If we pay income tax, let it all be out in the open as to why we pay and how we pay and where it is going

Obviously make it illegal to plant chips in people

Ending the Patriot Act will restore some of our rights

The Federal Reserve system is a Government's way to steal from it's people....

What sense does it make that a bank can loan up to 80 x its assets in loans and then collect interest on it.

My son has been telling me some of these things for a while now and I wasn't ready to hear it, now I am. He is right, the more I look, the more I see our Democracy is gone and Fascism is taking over.

Don't you see it? The Democrats are guilty to. They could be screaming from the streets and halls of Washington about all of the laws being broken and the Governments abuses of power. No, they make a peep now and then, but that is about it. I don't think that all of the Dems or Pubs are in on this, but I think most of the ones in power are. What I want to know is what do we start doing to protect ourselves and to get the word out to others.

So many loose ends now make sense to me. Watching all that has been happening the last few years has puzzled me in many ways. This movie trailer, articles that I have read and the other movie that I have been watching has all pulled it together for me. I don't even begin to understand how people who follow politics would doubt most of what this trailer has so far presented. If this isn't our wake up call, then I don't know what is.

[femrap]

59. I've seen fascism since the beginning of

w's reign. I'm so glad to see that this movie is coming out! I think people are ready to see it. They know something smells in the state of USA.

They need it spelled out.

I've been reading about the origination of our Federal Reserve system....and how both Lincoln and JFK wanted to print NON-INTEREST bearing notes. Look what happened to them. To me it is all starting to make sense. The corporations and these Elite Families must be stopped...or at least shown to the public.

I loved 'Master of the Universe.'

[madmunchie]

61. That is exactly what I thought!

Look at what happened to Lincoln and Kennedy. Jackson was almost assassinated to and he was trying to get rid of central banking.

It is all coming together for me to. Looking at some of these posts, many are not ready to accept what I feel is right in front of our noses. What scares me the most is the complictness of Dems and Pubs....how many of them are actually working together? I really am wondering about that.

[femrap]

67. So many of the Dems have given in....

either bribed or threatened, I imagine.

Where will we find a person who will stand up to these wealthy families and their corporations? This insatiable Greed has got to be regulated. I believe many wealthy people (not on the Rothschild level, however) see where this Greed is taking us...unrest and instablity. I don't understand why these rich assholes can't tolerate a middle class. It's not like they're going to starve or anything.

Of course some of these very rich and old families have participated in lots of inbreeding....which I think makes them nutty and even greedier.

When Andrew Jackson ran for Pres....wasn't his slogan, "Jackson and not the Bank?' I think I read that somewhere.

[madmunchie]

68. Jackson was Hell bent on getting rid of the bank!

I don't know about campaign slogans though.

[shance]

2. Google "The Money Masters" - amazing documentary

n/t

[madmunchie]

6. Can you see it on line, or do you have to buy the DVD?

[SupplyConcerns]

16. It's been put up on Google video

[SupplyConcerns]

12. Most educational three hours I spent in the last few months

And I'm a politics major at a good school.

[papau]

22. a politics major at a good school might want to do a fact check - and

might want to note that even as assertions, the direction is not progressive change -

We have here far right wet dreams under the cover of a few civil rights/other ideas progressives might support (Keep the internet free and out of the control of large institutions, Rescind the law called the Real ID Act so Americans never have to carry a National ID Card, Restore the environment, Put an end to the Patriot Act), or what 3rd party types might support (Stop the domination of the Democratic and Republican parties over our political system - when a parliamentary approach just does not work in our non-parliamentary system). or what feel good folks might support (stop the polarization of America - not stop the rape of the middle class by the rich, make computerized voting illegal in all 50 states - rather than make it auditable with required random audits, make it illegal to implant RFID chips in human beings - despite the use as a medical card being helpful, Stop Globalization because it is the path to a one world government - rather than control globalization and it make fair and good for the economic and health of all, and, of course "Protect our borders" - by screwing who and doing what so that we are not afraid - of what?)

What a load of crap.

Todd, the CBS radio station movie reviewer (which radio station?) should be ashamed of himself for assuming this stuff was all true.

[shance]

25. Should Milton Friedman be ashamed of himself? Who are you

Papau to make the authoritative accusations, in addition to responding so self-righteously and defensive in regards to a three hour documentary?

Are you an economics expert?

Again, what are your credentials that qualify you to so vehemently criticize an excellently referenced and sourced documentary?

In addition, what are your credentials in comparison to the experts interviewed, referenced and highlighted in the documentary?

[papau]

35. Yes - I am - albeit a Samuelson not Friedman school - and what did

Milton say exactly, since the summary of the movie's points is bullshit? I expect Milton's comments are taken out of context. My education is MIT and the SOA as a Fellow and with 40+ years applying all that continuing ed in the field for individual clients, companies, and to influence public policy. I am not a practicing economist except as it is needed in my practice as an Actuary.

An excellently referenced and sourced documentary?

An excellently referenced and sourced documentary does not suggest that a National Bank system is not needed and that the Fed not being in existence would improve our lives,

it does not suggest the "gold owned by the Government" need be in a given location and imply it has been stolen and imply that it is not audited on a regular schedule,

It does not imply that an apportioned tax, as required by the original wording of the Constitution, can not be supplemented by an income tax, when that tax has been added to the Constitution by Amendment and that process and effect have been always upheld by the Supreme Court - indeed calling on Congress and the IRS, in a public forum, reveal the law that requires Americans to pay a direct, un-apportioned tax on their labor - is a super con that the nuts have been selling for years, sending many folks that believe their crap to jail.

It does not preach the end of law and advocate hang them because you hate them - the classic result of juries nullifying the law in their decisions and refusing to convict - indeed the result for a hundred years of White murder of blacks in the South trials - we tolerate jury nullification as a safety valve - not as a better way.

I repeat - it is a load of crap mixed with objectives that the left, the 3rd part folks, and the feel good folks might like.

And it uses a radio critic movie review as "CBS" rates this 4 stars.

What bull.

[madmunchie]

40. Thanks, I started watching it. They really lay it all out in an unbiased

easy to understand way.

[TexasChick]

3. You are bound and determined to get the word out, ain't ya

madmunchie? That's okay. I noticed that DailyKos doesn't have information about this film over there tonight. Maybe you can create an account and then create a diary over there to see if it will gain traction, or how about www.smirkingchimp.com?

:hi:

[madmunchie]

4. You bet! This is too important to not be seen by many members of this

board.

How do you like this post? I think that I will use it to contact other boards. If you have any suggestions, please let them fly, I want to get as much help on this as possible.

[TexasChick]

7. Okay, first, go to Smirking Chimp. That site is for people with

thick skin, however. LOL! I have had people make me cry over there, but they do have very GOOD articles about facism, so the response would probably gain more traction faster then DailyKos. Use the title of the film to be the title of your threads. The title is very catching. Try both sites, madmunchie, if you feel strongly about this, and obviously, you do.

I think it will be like Fahrenheit though; it will probably take a while to gain traction because it will have to be by word of mouth. Just pray for Aaron Russo, okay. Pray hard for him. Actually, go to his website and join his cause. He has a lot of events coming up that could use your help and doing that will make you feel good about spreading the word.

[madmunchie]

15. Thanks for your interest and advice

I will start tomorrow and see where it can go.

[MindMatter]

39. Correct me if I'm wrong, bit isn't this mainly about

people who think they don't have to pay income taxes?

That seems like such a waste of time. The government must be funded somehow, and an income tax as as good or bad as any other means. The income tax has nothing to do with the fascism that has this country in its grips. We enjoyed many decades of freedom and progressiveness AND had an income tax at the same time.

Is Lyndon LaRouche behind this project?

[TexasChick]

43. Hey, MindMatter, it's about other things too. Like, the FEMA

camps being built around the country, the National ID cards, and chips that can be implanted in you. There was one example of a clip where this guy was ordering pizza and when he called to order the pizza, a screen from the pizza parlor came up with all of his personal info on it. His bank account records, his health issues, lots of other stuff. It's not the income tax thing that bothers me most, but the chips they can implant into you, the FEMA camps being built, etc. Kind of scary. I do think this country is moving slowly to fascism very subtly and Americans are not getting it. But, that is only MY opinion. The more we can make Americans aware of what is going on, the better. Anyone can disagree with the film, I don't mind that, but we have to stand up for our freedoms because they are being systematically taken away, regardless of the film.

I have no idea who LaRouche is or if he is behind this project. Who is he, if you don't mind me asking?

[MindMatter]

65. Lyndon LaRouche is

(or at least was) a quadrennial Presidential candidate whose platform seemed to track closely to the items you just ticked off.

Maybe those are issues. I'm a whole lot more concerned about the war, the state of elections, the whole money situation in Washington, the environment, how we can have a sustainable future economically, getting America somewhere beyond third world status in health care, and so on. These are important issues affecting every working American. Frankly, I don't want to be associated with the hysterical fantasies that movie seems to be dealing with.

[TexasChick]

66. To you, it may be fantasies, to others it may be realities,

depends on how each of us interprets it, I guess.

Thanks for LaRouche background.

[madmunchie]

69. Hi! Started doing what you advised! The thing is though

Now when I look at issues, I am seeing many of these issues as consequences of the bigger problems brought to light by what we are talking about here. Helping the poor is just a pittance to what the real issue is, who ultimately controls the money? If we do thru our Government, then it is our decision and fight to decide how to divvy it all up. If others are controlling the purse strings though, no votes, no discussions will ever resolve anything, until the root of the problem is addressed. The rest is icing.

We argue about Dem vs Pub vs all the rest that make no difference, when in all actuality, the people above them are controlling both parties and we are just being entertained and occupied by all of the drama of the meaningless elections.

This whole thing has really changed my perspective on all of the issues, they really are a side note to the real action. The funny thing is, that all of this has clarified what the Hell has been going on for some time now, while others here, seem to be in either partial, or total denial. Some, are even missing the whole point. I am glad that this is getting the attention now though. I hope that when the movie comes out, many will go to see it, and then let the discussions begin!

[MindMatter]

70. I agree with al of that,, but

Judging from the trailer, this movie wraps itself up with all sorts of red herring stuff that will just turn people off. What does the Fed have to do with a claim that there is no law compelling an income tax? The two are completely unrelated. The courts have consistently held that the Federal government can impose an income tax. And if they ever find that the laws are lacking, then Congress will very quickly pass a law explicitly authorizing it.

Bringing up that argument turns the whole endeavor into a bunch of crackpot nonsense. Likewise for the ID chips. I have a family member who honestly believes that we implanted him with a chip to control his behavior. He is nuts.

It is a shame that these producers are driven to get into the crackpot stuff because there truly are important issues in that mix that will get completely lost.

[madmunchie]

72. Aarron started investigating about the Federal Income Taxes and

his investigation took him in this direction. Personally, I don't know about the tax thing, I really care about other things mentioned in this trailer though. It has led me to do some further research and I am finding the Federal Reserve Bank thing is true and that we are being duped by our Government. The chips, could very well come into being, I don't see that being out of the realm of possibilities with everything else that is going on. Most movies, put their most exciting stuff (or so they think) in these trailers, I can't wait to see what else this guy has to say. For me, viewing the trailer was an "Aha" light bulb moment.

[TomInTib]

9. Thanks for the plug for smirkingchimp

Arguably the most literate site on the left-web.

[MindMatter]

71. Some would say a literate circle-jerk

[madmunchie]

73. They just locked this topic on me. So much for The Smirking Chimp!

[sandnsea]

8. Freemen Militia stuff

I was hearing this kind of stuff 10 years ago in Montana. This list of goals would come from right wing extremists, just so's everybody knows.

[bahrbearian]

13. On some points the Right and Left can agree ?

[sandnsea]

19. Just puttin' out the info

Before you jump on a bandwagon, you better know where it's going. Yeah, Freemen can get riled up about some important stuff, but no way do I want to go where they want to go.

[papau]

18. I agree - this is right wing crap spread by the fascists of the GOP, with

the cover of a few civil rights/other ideas progressives might support (Keep the internet free and out of the control of large institutions, Rescind the law called the Real ID Act so Americans never have to carry a National ID Card, Restore the environment, Put an end to the Patriot Act), or what 3rd party types might support (Stop the domination of the Democratic and Republican parties over our political system - when a parliamentary approach just does not work in our non-parliamentary system). or what feel good folks might support (stop the polarization of America - not stop the rape of the middle class by the rich, make computerized voting illegal in all 50 states - rather than make it auditable with required random audits, make it illegal to implant RFID chips in human beings - despite the use as a medical card being helpful, Stop Globalization because it is the path to a one world government - rather than control globalization and it make fair and good for the economic and health of all, and, of course "Protect our borders" - by screwing who and doing what so that we are not afraid - of what?)

What a load of crap.

Todd, the CBS radio station movie reviewer (which radio station?) should be ashamed of himself for assuming this stuff was all true.

[Guaranteed]

37. Yup. Taxes, implanting chips, national ID card, etc.

"Just like Nazi Germany!"

[depakid]

10. Some of this stuff is as whacky as La Rouche

The 16th Amendment- and the legislative history behind it, for example couldn't be clearer.

As far as I'm concerned- once the trailer went down that road- the film lost a lot of credibility.

Too bad, because it apparently addresses a number of other issues that are actually of public concern.

[PennyK]

11. Aaron Russo is somewhat cuckoo

He used to be Bette Midler's manager...he was incredibly jealous and he almost ruined her career. He's been trying to get involved in politics for a few years now.

[cantstandbush]

14. Does that make him wrong? Untruthful? Just asking. nt

[papau]

20. yes n/t

n/t

[mnhtnbb]

17. First I've heard of a national identity card

My God, this is chilling.

[OwnedByFerrets]

23. I would love to hear more about

why some people dont like the message that is apparently sent by this film. Btw, I havent seen it.

[papau]

24. Details on the Real ID Act

http://news.com.com/National+ID+cards+on+the+way/2100-1028_3-5573414.html?tag=nl

The REAL ID ACT means a new drivers license with federally mandated content - it is a response to the Virginia drivers license scandal that gave real illegal alien terrorists a driver license so easily.

You will need this improved drivers license beginning in 2008 to travel on an airplane, open a bank account, collect Social Security payments, or take advantage of nearly any government service. To many people this amounts to a national identity card.

The key point is that the DMV identification process will be more rigorous since you'll need to bring a "photo identity document," document your birth date and address, and show that your Social Security number is what you had claimed it to be. U.S. citizens will have to prove that status, and foreigners will have to show a valid visa. State DMVs will have to verify that these identity documents are legitimate, digitize them and store them permanently. In addition, Social Security numbers must be verified with the Social Security Administration. The ID info will include at a minimum: name, birth date, sex, ID number, a digital photograph, address, and a "common machine-readable technology" (magnetic strip, enhanced bar code, or radio frequency identification (RFID) chips) that Homeland Security will decide on. The card must also sport "physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes." Homeland Security is permitted to add additional requirements--such as a fingerprint or retinal scan--on top of those. We won't know for a while what these additional requirements will be.

The Real ID card is a recommendation that the 9/11 Commission made last year.

State DMVs will share this information by agreeing to link up their databases. Specifically, the Real ID Act says it hopes to "provide electronic access by a state to information contained in the motor vehicle databases of all other states."

The Supreme Court ruled last year that police can demand to see ID from law-abiding U.S. citizens.

The only legal challenged might be the photo being a violation of religious freedom (already shot down in many states) and the old imposing costs on states without properly reimbursing them (again unlikely).

[Jamastiene]

32. They are already doing that in some places in Europe, if

I am not mistaken.

[readmoreoften]

26. We won't survive if we don't join hands w/ reasonable cons on some issues.

I'm a middle/working class lesbian atheist of jewish descent. I have no desire to join hands with the RW. In MOST ways, these people are my mortal enemies. But there are things that we can argue about later, because in this fascist state our ARGUMENTS are even irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the will of the dictators. There are things that we have to "reach across the aisle" on right now. That makes us STRONGER not weaker.


Primary Objectives

Stop the polarization of America STRONGLY AGREE
Stop the domination of the Democratic and Republican parties over our political system MORE DIVERSITY COULDN'T HURT IMHO
Shut down the Federal Reserve system UNDECIDED
Return America's gold to Fort Knox and have it audited UNDECIDED
Have Congress and the IRS, in a public forum, reveal the law that requires Americans to pay a direct, unapportioned tax on their labor.DISAGREE]
Make computerized voting illegal in all 50 states STRONGLY AGREE
Keep the internet free and out of the control of large institutions STRONGLY AGREE
Rescind the law called the Real ID Act so Americans never have to carry a National ID Card STRONGLY AGREE
Make it illegal to implant RFID chips in human beings STRONGLY AGREE
Educate juries to the fact that they have the right to determine the law as well as the facts of a case STRONGLY AGREE
Educate juries to the fact that they are not obligated to follow the instructions of a judge STRONGLY AGREE
Stop Globalization because it is the path to a one world government STRONGLY AGREE
Protect our borders MIXED
Restore the environment STRONGLY AGREE
Put an end to the Patriot Act STRONGLY AGREE
Sign up millions of Americans so we can accomplish our objectives STRONGLY AGREE

So as a liberal, I only strongly disagree with ONE TENANT out of 16 and I strongly agree with 13 TENANTS out of 16. Listen, once we have VOTING again, I'll be against all conservatives. But if there are conservatives who are against a police state, then I'm willing to build a coalition.

[MattP]

27. Some stupid stuff

I cannot believe I skimmed through that junk, they talk about the central bank,new world order,and the bank of England wanting to take over the world. Sounds like some way far out shit lifted out of the Protocols of Zion and mixed with black helicopter shit also they talked about computer chips implanted for tracking people.

[PaDem]

36. about the chip............

There is indeed a chip that can be voluntarily implanted in your arm. The company responsible for this chip is headed by Tommy Thompson (formerly the HHS secretary and Gov. of Wisconsin). The chip stores your medical history and is supposedly to be used if you are unconscious in a hospital requiring medical attention. I believe Thompson has tried and will continue to try to convince the government that his chip can be used on a large scale.

[femrap]

62. Go read some history on how our

Federal Reserve System began. 1913 and Wilson signed it into law. He very much regretted it.

You do realize that there are some mighty rich families in this world that own most of the world, don't you? Rothschilds, Rockefellers....they go back a long time.

Then check out the Council of Foreign Relations, Bildenberg, and for entertainment these rich white males play at the Bohemian Grove....where sadism is the game of choice.

These rich families are not nice neighbors. War is fun for them...they fund both sides.

[rman]

31. Common ground between the Left and the Right

As is pointed out at the end of the trailer:
"Stop being good democrats"
"Stop being good republicans"

a few points:

Paul Krugman (economist) and Mike Rupert (former LAPD, narcotics dept) may not be a far left progressives, but they sure aren't free-market fundamentalist RW-ers either.

Regarding the Federal Reserve, riddle me this: if the Federal Reserve is a government agency, then why is the government lending money from itself to itself and pays it back to itself with interest?

The left and the right may still have some differences to resolve, ie whether or not The People should chip in to fund programs and services that benefit society (to which all The People belong). Then again, polls show that a clear majority of the population is in favor of "nationalized" (tax funded) healthcare (aka universal healthcare).

Another difference may be wether or not - and to what extent - the government should regulate corporations. On the other hand i don't expect much republicans to be in favor of leaving corporations free to do "whatever it takes" to make the most profit possible, if that means for instance poluting the environment, movingjobs to foreign countries, and to not have a living minimum wage.

[Solon]

53. The government doesn't borrow money from the Reserve...

they use the Reserve as collateral for Bonds, which are the most common way for the government to borrow money. Think of WW2, when people bought war bonds to support the war. Today, our biggest "Customers" in regards to bonds are Japan and China, we should be concerned, but at least get the facts straight.

[femrap]

63. I think you need to check the books....

Federal Reserve is NOT part of our gov't. Read about Lincoln and JFK trying to issue non-interest bearing notes...what happened?

The Fed is run just like all the other central banks of this world are run....all by the same very wealthy families who go back centuries.

[Solon]

76. You are incorrect...

The Federal Reserve is run by a board of governors, which is answerable to CONGRESS, the Federal Reserve was CREATED by Congress, and is a PUBLIC, government owned, corporation, similar to the USPS or your local natural gas utility.

[rman]

79. With New York bankers in the forefront, an international coalition lobbied

... "the Federal Reserve was CREATED by Congress" is only part of the story:


THE INTERNATIONAL ORIGINS OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE SYSTEM
http://tnt.spidergraphics.com/cup8/cup_detail.taf?ti_id=2865

...
"Key institutional features of the Federal Reserve Act addressed both these shortcomings but it was the goal of internationalizing usage of the dollar that motivated social actors to pressure Congress for the improvements. With New York bankers in the forefront, an international coalition lobbied for a system that would reduce internal problems such as recurring panics, and simultaneously allow New York to challenge London’s preeminence as the global banking center and encourage bankers to make the dollar a worldwide currency of record. To those who organized the political effort to pass the Act, Broz contends, the creation of the Federal Reserve System was first and foremost a response to international opportunities."

...

[femrap]

85. well then I think I'll go buy stock in it....just

like fannie mae.

Go back and read some history about this, OK? Andrew Jackson....also Wilson, who regretted signing the law that brought it into existence.

Some very, very wealthy old-time families wanted that Central Bank and they wanted to control it.

Believe what you want....

[rman]

74. Then aren't bonds and foreign nations go-betweens

for borrowing money ("the most common way for the government to borrow money")?
And does it not have to be payed back at interest?
Is not the Federal Reserve the ultimate authority when it comes to US currency?

[Solon]

77. I don't see what you mean by "go-between"...

Bonds are simply a MEANS to borrow money, the buyers of those bonds DO expect interest rate returns, that is expected, also the Federal Reserve does determine what the value of the American Dollar is, by making sure that the Dollar is kept at a constant level of circulation, to keep inflation down. However, the Reserve answers to Congress, no one else, the board of the Fed has to justify its actions.

[rman]

78. So the govt pays interest for the money it borrows from the Fed,

bonds notwithstanding.

So IF the Fed is a govt organization, that means the govt borrows money from itself to itself and pays it back to itself with interest. Which doesn't really make sense.

It wasn't like that in the time when the govt issued its currency by itself.
It's not like only a financial institution can make sure that the Dollar is kept at a constant level of circulation.

[Solon]

83. No, that is NOT what I'm saying...

OK, the Federal Reserve's is the Central Bank of the US Government, part of its charge is ordering money from the Mint to be distributed throughout the country, BTW, the Mint also prints money for countries like Mexico as well. Anyways, the Government doesn't BORROW money from the Federal Reserve, it sells off bonds, long-term, short-term etc. to Individuals and organizations that will buy them, those individuals "loaned" the money to the Government, the Federal Reserve's only task in this is to keep track of these loans. So the Government doesn't borrow against itself, it borrows from others, usually its citizen's, but also organizations and companies, including other banks, as well. Think of Bonds as reciepts for loaning, if you will.

Let's say you buy a 20 year Government Bond, at a set interest rate, let's say it cost 10,000 dollars to buy. OK, you LOANED that 10 grand to the government at the time you bought the bond, the interest rate on the bond is GUARANTEED to never go down, after 20 years, you get that 10 grand back plus interest. That is how the government borrows money.

[rman]

86. Still comes down to the same thing

The Fed controls the currency, the govt borrows it and pays interest over it. If the govt itself would control the currency it would not need to borrow it nor pay interest over it. The details you mention do not change the essence of it.

[madmunchie]

82. Your wrong, they get money from the Reserve AND they pay interest

on that money from our tax dollars.

[durrrty libby]

33. Not sure I have the guts to watch. Our current gov't

is depressing enough.

[Joanne98]

38. I'll take all the help I can get. I support the film.

[leesa]

41. The ideas about juries are NOT good. I would NOT want a jury interpreting

law or ignoring the judges instructions. Return the gold?? Some of this is good. Bot some is just really wacko.

[Southsideirish]

42. Link didn't work for me.

[KyndCulture]

44. Unreal so many DUers dismiss this film...

just because it's equally harsh on the left as it is the right.

Please get some facts. The Real ID act has been passed. The chips are real, see post above about Tommy Thompson. The federal reserve IS a private bank. The wiretapping is real. Dems and Repubs all had a hand in all those things.

[Joe Fields]

49. Thank you. I concur.

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. The reaction by some of you is unreal

yes they do have the anti IRS shhtick which is very, VERY libertarian... tell me folks are the RDIF chips real? Yes, yes they are.

And if this is what will wake up the other half, I am all for it

[KyndCulture]

46. Agreed.

The movie isn't just about the IRS thing, that's only a piece of it.

Some people said the Real ID act isn't real. WTF??? It's real and was passed.

[sandnsea]

51. No

This is a classic case of being so open-minded your brains fall out. Cozying up to the Freemen??? People don't know what the hell they're talking about supporting groups like this, they really don't. It's like welcoming the KKK because they're against the Iraq War too. :crazy:

[high density]

55. I don't know who Aaron Russo is...

But it all sounds too libertarian for my taste.


(Ahhh... on further investigation, it's a big surprise that it sounds Liberatarian...)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Russo

LOL.

[sandnsea]

56. Freemen masquerading as Libertarian

This stuff is way beyond Libertarianism even. Just google up Aaron Russo and Freemen, they quote him all the time and he uses "free men" quite frequently. Rene Russo does too, I haven't found out whether she is connected to Aaron Russo. Maybe this is where Mel Gibson went off the path, listening to Rene Russo during those Lethal Weapon movies. These people are way way out there.

[Solon]

54. First, its RFID chips, and they are pretty widespread on merchandise...

This is a classic example of making a mountain out of a molehill. RFID chips are generally used to track inventory in stores, similar to the old "circuits" used on CDs, DVDs, and clothing that sound an alarm if you try to leave the store. RFID chips are slightly different, in that they actually hold a little info, on a ROM chip, and can transmit that data outwards. What people DON'T get is that these chips are EXTREMELY limiting, specifically in bandwidth and power. Using standard radio frequencies as they do, and with extremely low power, most RFID chips cannot be read beyond about a Meter from a reader. This is unlike pet implantation chips, which are unpowered, and need to be activated by the reader itself. However, while this could be considered a cause for concern, think of people roaming around to pick up cell phone frequencies to steal them, a similar thing could happen with RFID chips IF they contain any of your personal information.

I'm not saying its NOT a cause for concern, but, to be honest, I don't think, because of security risks, that RFID chips would be used in ID cards for general purposes, they are cheap, but the advantages are outweighed by the disadvantages at this time, and may be insurmountable.

[madmunchie]

58. Not these chips, but at my grocery store you can now use

your finger to electronically pay for your purchases. All you do is touch a finger pad and that registers who you are and identifies your paying information.

In some of these points, we may not be exactly there, right now, BUT, it really doesn't take much imagination to see this being implemented in the very very near future.

More of the points brought up in this are more true, than not true. There are many things out there to support much of what is being said.

National I.D.? on its way
Micro chips, technologically possible
being tracked by everyone, well aren't we moving into that direction at a lightening speed? How much privacy do you really think that we have? Between electronic banking, paying tolls on highways with electronic I-pass, fingertip use of paying for groceries (electronic) Electronic payment for all bills on computers, in stores, cell phones able to be tracked, being issued traffic citations from camera's on the streets, wire tapping w/o subpoenas, medical and high school records going directly to computers, Oh, the list just goes on and on. Why is it such a stretch? To me, it is right around the corner.

[Solon]

60. Biometric security is odd at a grocery store...

I will say that, but it isn't a NEW technology, just a new implementation of it. No one, in their right mind, will carry around a "chipped" ID card that TRANSMITS, 24/7, their SS#, Name, Address, etc., especially unencrypted. The best security would be a code number that is associated to you, and that could then be traced back to a database that contains all your info. Its a disaster waiting to happen, ID theft, which is already bad, would go through the roof. Computer Databases, for EVERYTHING, has been SOP for about 15 years, in most industrialized countries. Its how that data is protected, from both criminals and government, that is what matters, not that it happens at all. What we need to make clear is this, everything you mentioned, in order to be accessed by ANY party, required a subpeona or warrant until Bush came into office.

For example, you cell phone example is a classic example of this, they can trace it, to the nearest cell tower, which can cover a half mile or so, but ONLY if YOU LEAVE IT ON. Cell phones TRANSMIT DATA, that is HOW THEY WORK, otherwise they are paperweights, use a cell phone and yes someone could trace you, that is no surprise, "black market" radio stations have the same problem, they can usually be tracked as well, because they transmit radio waves that can be traced back to the source.

Look, if we REALLY want to talk about what is technologically possible with a RFID chip, let's see, it would have to be about the size of a clock radio to TRANSIT data about a mile, and that's assuming a clear line of sight. The idea that a chip in your wallet could track you through almost any means besides it being within FEET of a reader is laughable. I'm speaking of what is technically possible today, this has nothing to do with politics, and everything to do with, oddly enough, physics. Any RFID chip of a size to fit in your wallet, without outside antennae, would have a VERY short radio wavelength, in other words, the radio waves it transmits will have a very short range, lining your wallet with tin foil can, pardon the pun, foil it.

We should NOT be concerned with the technology itself, it is neutral on such subjects, instead we need to ensure that our RIGHTS as people are protected through strong 4th Amendment protections. People sometimes get too paranoid, while losing sight of the big picture.

[madmunchie]

64. Do you really think that you know all of the capabilities of our

Government? Do you really know all of the technology that our Government has developed to further their goals? I don't believe that, we, the public, are privy to all that our Government has in technology. I really don't. I believe that in a pretty short amount of time (if not already), being able to track and identify everybody will be commonly accessible to those who want to use it.

I don't know for sure, but, looking at everything that is happening around us, tells me that we are well on our way of this becoming a reality. Obviously, I could be wrong, but, unfortunately, my gut is usually right on about this type of thing, and my gut is saying, accept it, it is real.

[rich4468]

48. Come on...

I read the premise of this film that "there's no law that requires citizens to pay taxes"...

That's stretching things a bit since the Constitution vests in the congress the power to assess and collect taxes... It's right there in Article 1, plain as day... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to put 2 & 2 together to come to the conclusion that if the Constitution allows Congress to collect taxes then the citizenry is then bound by the Constitution to pay said taxes no?

Why do people chase around nonsense like this when there are so many other STARTINGLY REAL, CURRENT AND RELEVANT issues that are more worthy of their time?

[Jeroen]

50. Because money makes people listen...

very smart way to promote the core message

[sandnsea]

52. That IS their core message

Has been for years and years. A bunch of down and outers who got mad and decided the solution was to pay no income taxes, no property taxes, oppose all drivers licenses and regulations, and everything associated with the government. God created "Freemen". These are the most far right extremists there are, way out there with the Army of God types. They've got nothing in common with liberals when you understand the core of what they're about.

[Solon]

57. So get facts wrong to be believable?

Or just straight up lie about the facts, that seems to DESTROY the MESSAGE, whatever it is, rather than promote it.

[MattP]

80. Black Helicopters

I wonder how many people that posted on here actually took the time to watch the whole 15 minute "preview" or saw the whole film to understand the paranoid new world order black helicopter crap this guy is talking about. You should start the Libertarian underground.

[madmunchie]

81. These issues affect ALL AMERICANS. not just Dem, Pub, Lib, Ind

...

It amazes me the way people have to categorize everything. Can't we be concerned because we are human beings? Why must labels be issued to every discussion?

My personal freedoms are not labeled, not yet at least. Yes, I saw the whole 14 minutes, I read follow up material and I have seen things on some of this in the past. What this guy has done is put alto of it together. Hey, some people are not ready to accept the things that are happening. I just hope that enough people wake up real soon, like before it is too late for freedom and democracy.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

84. I just saw a 3 part documentary on exactly the same topic as the film...

and I haven't written online since, until now. Search for THE MONEY MASTERS on google. It's old grainy video that looks like it's been dubbed over about 3 times too much.

It is also the most eye-opening piece of media I've ever seen in fifty years of life, 25 in media. Do you want to see something REALLY SCARY right now?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4991544789166784731

I'll do an OP on this, after I confirm the major historic quotes...

[madmunchie]

88. That was already mentioned in an earlier post.

I have been watching it and it is truely a fascinating as well as a mindblowing piece of work.

Please let me know after you confirm the major historic quotes. I feel that this film has taught me more than anything else has in a very very long time. I am wondering how I will get my mind around it and be able to utilize all of the information. Besides telling people about this, how do we protect ourselves???? Is there even a way. I believe that these films should be sparking a whole new host of conversations on DU and other political boards.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

87. It's a long movie.

6 years long, so far, and it's only three quarters over.