I remember John Kerry, 1971. I remember what it meant to oppose that war.

[Faygo Kid]

I remember an impossibly young John Kerry. I am 52 years old, and the Vietnam War was wrong; but this Imperialism under George W. Bush is far worse. I remember John Kerry - a decorated veteran - speaking out against that war. I appreciated his courage then; I recall it now. I thank Howard Dean for his moral courage, and his wake-up call to Americans to say, no more 2002 elections. He is a Patriot. I thank Wes Clark, for his leadership, and refusal to buy the kind of cheap militarism that the Bush Administration stands for. I thank John Edwards, for he is truly right - there ARE two Americas, and he has stood up for the forgotten. I thank Dennis Kucinich, for his conscience, and for reminding us what is at stake. I thank Al Sharpton; to leave America's urban areas an undebated part of this election is intolerable. But, I declare, on the basis of what I say here, for John Kerry. Perfect? No. But, back when it counted, he Stood Up. And he has been an honorable leader since then. Those of you too young to remember, he showed remarkable courage, at a time when it was not easy to do so. He goes back further than anyone. (Go see "The Fog of War.") Thanks for reading this. I declare, here and now, for John Kerry. George W. Bush is a fraud. John Kerry is authentic, and I am old enough to say he always has been.

[mitchum]

1. Beautiful post, faygokid

[Faygo Kid]

19. Thank you. I am humbled.

I appreciate your compliment. Thank you, mitchum.

[BeyondGeography]

2. He saved lives when he fought the war

and he saved lives when he came home and his courageous opposition added to the groundswell against the war.

[BootinUp]

3. Nice declaration

Something for all to consider, thanks.

[dogpatch]

4. well said!

:kick:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

5. I agree and many of the liberals who applauded him then are slaughtering

him now.

While I was against the Iraq war, the VOTE did not make the war more imminent than it already was.
In Viet Nam, 50,000 Americans and 2 million Viet Namese and Viet Cong were killed.
He regrets his IWR vote. He is the best person experience wise to get us out of there both diplomatically and militarily.
His commitment to alternative energy sources is much stronger than even Gore's was.

1 wrong vote and the guy is persona non grata for carrying water for liberals for decades.

[Faygo Kid]

6. Thanks for your post. I can disagree with Kerry, but he has guts.

Again, I remember him standing up against that war, a war LESS immoral than the neocon dream war against Iraq. I didn't make a stand until now. I support all the Dems; best field ever. But I stand with John Kerry. He stood with us. Mistakes? Yeah, of course. But, George W. Bush, or John Kerry? Let's get to work, folks. Gawd, I can't believe I am this enthusiastic. But I am remembering John Kerry, and his courage when he was accused of being a traitor. And he was right, and he was a Patriot.

[blm]

14. That just gave me chills, faygo...

salute.

[MuseRider]

7. I remember him then too faygokid.

He was courageous in battle and courageous when he came home. It is difficult for me to fault him a lot because of this. I don't agree with him on quite a number of things but I have him as my #2 and this is one of the reasons. It was very hard back then, we all protested but he stood up and fought it for every one of us who were no more than numbers in the crowd. Iraq is terrible but Nam was killing so many more by that time, we must get out of Iraq now before it becomes like Nam. That is why Dennis Kucinich is my #1. They are different but both good men. Thanks, this is a nice post.

[Jacobin]

8. I wish he had stood up when it counted most recently --IraqNam

If he had he would have had my support and my vote. As it stands, he'll have my reluctant vote and a solemn oath by me that should he escalate the IraqNam debacle, I'll work like hell to get him defeated in his re-election bid.

[blondeatlast]

13. Somehow I doubt you were born before 1970.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I'm a Kucinich supporter, but I know what it meant for him to stand up in protest back then. It took untold courage.

[Cascadian]

20. Kerry should have not voted to support the war.

He should have followed Ted Kennedy's lead and went against the damn thing. This is why I have a little trouble in supporting Kerry. Never mind that Kerry wanted Bush to go to the UN. He voted for it and that can never be erased.


John

[genius]

9. I think the baby boomers will relate to his stance on Vietnam.

A lot of people in the service hated it andwere eager to get out. He was a hero and was lucky he wasn't killed. A lot of guys were killed - even though they did not want to go.

[Straight Shooter]

10. Did he or did he not call the U.S. soldiers genocidal murderers?

I can find nothing definitive as to that statement. Did he call those U.S. soldiers still in Nam murderers?

And did not Kerry go to Nam knowing full well the reasons behind the protests in the United States? Why did he have to go to Nam to figure out they were right?

This is why Kerry does not impress me. Flame away. I'm from a military family and have Vietnam Vets as good friends who aren't impressed by Kerry either.

[Faygo Kid]

15. No flame, just facts: Kerry fought in, and against, that war

Yes, he said atrocities took place. Of course they did; this was war. That's the bad thing about war. It's not clean. As Sherman said, War is Hell. Kerry knew that. And he testified to it. Yes, he could have gotten out of it, with his connections; I might have used them, had I been him. But he didn't. John Kerry went, and he fought, and he came back, and he said that war was wrong. And he was right; so right. Go see "The Fog of War." And look at the fog around us. Kerry resonates with vets because he genuinely put his life on the line, and genuinely opposed that adventure. I think it took guts to come back and do that, at such a young age. I think your relatives and friends from that era really think so, too. They have been to the Wall. Ask them.

[DemBones DemBones]

16. But are you old enough to remember it all?

I think that makes a big difference. I think Kerry's getting a lot of older boomers' votes because we remember.

I'm from a military family, too, and knew guys who went and guys who didn't and it was a difficult time for all.

:hippie:

[Faygo Kid]

18. Born in 1951, and an avid history buff

Remember "it all?" No one knows it all; that's why the movie is called "The Fog of War." Still, an avid reader. And obviously remember it well. The very best book on it is George Ball's "The Past Has Another Pattern." George Ball was a Statesman, like George Marshall, and unlike Colin Powell. Look, I don't have the answers. I believe Vietnam was the wrong war, in the wrong place, at the wrong time, for the wrong reasons. But, I believe it was more blunders than evil intent. Iraq? Wrong war, etc. - but WITH evil intent; an insane neocon dream of Ruling the World. Certainly, Vietnam was never that. This is our most important election. Ask your friends and relatives. Ask what they think about this war, and where we go from here.

[DemBones DemBones]

21. You misunderstood, I was asking

the person who posted post #10.

I agree with you.

[Faygo Kid]

22. My mistake, and my apology.

Must be time for bed. Thank you, and let's continue this civil discourse here. My best to Dennis Kucinich, and I am glad he was another voice in this campaign. Never had a chance, but I agree with him. Please consider John Kerry. He really, really did fight the good fight going back to Nixon.

[cindyw]

26. Response to your accusations.

>Did he or did he not call the U.S. soldiers genocidal murderers?
I can find nothing definitive as to that statement. Did he call those U.S. soldiers still in Nam murderers?

Kerry in his own words: "WINTER SOLDIER INVESTIGATION

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command....

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

We call this investigation the "Winter Soldier Investigation." The term "Winter Soldier" is a play on words of Thomas Paine in 1776 when he spoke of the Sunshine Patriot and summertime soldiers who deserted at Valley Forge because the going was rough.

We who have come here to Washington have come here because we f eel we have to be winter soldiers now. We could come back to this country; we could be quiet; we could hold our silence; we could not tell what went on in Vietnam, but we feel because of what threatens this country, the fact that the crimes threaten it, not reds, and not redcoats but the crimes which we are committing that threaten it, that we have to speak out.

>And did not Kerry go to Nam knowing full well the reasons behind the protests in the United States? Why did he have to go to Nam to figure out they were right?

Your version of events would be convenient to compare to the Dean supporters characterization of Kerry on the Iraq war. Being able to say that Kerry has a history of ignoring protests and supporting war anyway, only to finally accept the protests of the many. But the facts are against you. Kerry joined the military in 1966. Way before the protests to the Vietnam war had roared up. He did what many rich kids of his time did not do. Like GWB. GWB joined the guard in 1968. He knew then that protesters opposed the war and made the decision to avoid taking a stand in the matter by protecting the skies of Texas. When the protests of Vietnam were at their height, Kerry was on a boat in the Mekong Delta.

>This is why Kerry does not impress me. Flame away. I'm from a military family and have Vietnam Vets as good friends who aren't impressed by Kerry either.

I come from a family of Vets too and from a family of war protesters. They are impressed. They remember him. They appreciate what he did. My guess is that if you are a republican and a vet you don't like Kerry. If you are a Democrat, you like him. Politics as usual. I can live with that. But Kerry will change minds. I believe his presidency will bring a much needed opportunity to heal from the wounds inflicted in Vietnam for many people in this country. I pray for that.

I will leave you with Kerry'sw answer to your question. The answer he gave 30 years ago.

"In response to Senator Symington's inquiry about American men and women still in Vietnam and their attitude toward opposition to the war within Congress, Kerry offered the following comments.

...I don't want to get into the game of saying I represent everybody over there, but let me try to say as straightforwardly as I can, we had an advertisement, ran full page, to show you what the troops read. It ran in Playboy and the response to it within two and a half weeks from Vietnam was 1,200 members. We received initially about 50 to 80 letters a day from troops arriving at our New York office. Some of these letters -- and I wanted to bring some down, I didn't know we were going to be testifying here and I can make them available to you -- are very, very moving, some of them written by hospital corpsmen on things, on casualty report sheets which say, you know, "Get us out of here." "You are the only hope he have got." "You have got to get us back; it is crazy." We received recently 80 members of the 101st Airborne signed up in one letter. Forty members from a helicopter assault squadron, crash and rescue mission signed up in another one.

I think they are expressing, some of these troops, solidarity with us, right now by wearing black arm bands and Vietnam Veterans Against the War buttons. They want to come out and I think they are looking at the people who want to try to get them out as a help.

However, I do recognize there are some men who are in the military for life. The job in the military is to fight wars. When they have a war to fight, they are just as happy in a sense, and I am sure that these men feel they are being stabbed in the back. But, at the same time, I think to most of them the realization of the emptiness, the hollowness, the absurdity of Vietnam has finally hit home, and I feel is they did come home the recrimination would certainly not come from the right, from the military. I don't think there would be that problem.."

http://www.richmond.edu/~ebolt/history398/JohnKerryTestimony.html

[cally]

11. Thanks

I think all of us need to consider the Viet Nam War Era. Kerry was and is courageous. Not as much as I would like but he has proved himself. I don't expect perfection, just courage.

Maybe this is for another thread, but the viet nam war has too much influence in this election. We have all grown up and I think too meany votes are based on old politics.

[bread_and_roses]

12. The courage of the anti-war Vietnam Vets

is probably not something those who did not live through those times can fully understand. That Kerry was one of them gives me hope that despite his votes for Welfare "reform," the Patriot Act, and the IRW (for none of which any rational is sufficient, imo) he would not be a war-mongerer. I think it likely he understands the catastrophic consequences of Imperialist Militarism.

If, along the way, his youthful courage has dwindled, whether through ambition or strategy, the current situation may encourage him to find it again. Certainly, I think Dean, Kucinich, Clark and to some degree Sharpton deserve thanks for demonstrating that an anti-Iraq war stance is not sure suicide. And in Kucinich's and Edwards' case, that to speak to Populist and Progressive concerns does not equal immediate political death.

Kucinich would be my first choice, but in the context of the rightward path of the Dem party, Kerry's over-all record is probably the best we could hope for in a nominee. To my mind, it is a better record than his opponent's (excepting DK's).

[DemBones DemBones]

17. It seems that a lot of us who support Kucinich

are more comfortable with the thought of voting for Kerry than many of those who support someone other than DK or JK. Maybe it's a generation gap? (Speaking of the sixties/ seventies!)

:hippie:

[Eloriel]

23. I can't pass this up

Yes, it's a beautiful post and you're certainly entitled to believe whatever you want.

But what you describe about Kerry is the main reason I was originally opposed to him. He was a decorated war hero (and let's pause to acknowledge there are some controversies about that, including but not limited to his use of his medals), and came home to become a renown Anti-Vietnam War Hero.

And then, in time, became one of the old men he once protested against.

If anything, he sent young Americans to die for an even more senseless and immoral, unnecessary war than the one he served in and later protested. I can never forgive him. Never. The blood is on his hands. He of ALL people should've known better, should've done better.

But no. His political career was far more important to him. Just as, I'm sure, the political careers of the old men who once sent him and others of my generation to war. It's a betrayal beyond what I can forgive, until or unless he renounces his war vote and apoligizes -- which he won't do and which by this time, knowing him so much better now, I wouldn't believe as anything but another piece of calculated political opportunism.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

24. But you can sit there and post on a computer even though

2 million Africans have died for the Coltan used in it and the wars resulting from it..so don't tell me you can't rationalize political death or ignore it for your convenience. If we're going for moral purity are Iraqi's worth more than Africans or just more sensational?

[Faygo Kid]

25. Wow! A great post, and thoughtful. But, I still support Kerry.

It is indeed "an even more senseless and immoral, unnecessary war." No question. But I think your error lies in assuming that Kerry could foretell just how far this Administration would go. He was wrong to vote for the resolution. Period. I opposed it then. I oppose it now. But the blood is not on his hands; it is on Bush's, and his minions. The perfect is always the enemy of the good. I believe, despite that mistake, that John Kerry is a good man. I believe it because he was an incredibly strong (and often lonely) voice in 1971, and has been since then. I wish to God he had voted against giving that evil man, Bush, authority to go to war. I hope, as you do, that he admits his mistake. But I believe that he is a good man who could be a very good president, despite that mistake. And I thank you for one of the best posts I have ever seen at DU, even if (maybe especially if) it challenges me.

[mitchum]

28. Deleted by mitchum...

because this beautiful thread ALREADY had a couple of snide posts on it

Kerry 2004

[Octafish]

27. Thanks, faygokid!

You made my DU day!

Regarding 1971: I remember those days, as well. Not many people stood up to the Monster then. Fewer since have kept the fight going. John Kerry is one and I can read that you are another.