Hillary will spoil the midterms for the Democrats

[niceypoo]

There will be two chorus' on the democrats side in the up coming midterm elections, a unified group consisting of a majority of democrats whom want us to pull out of Iraq ASAP and Hillary on the other preaching "stay the course". The punditry and the Rovians will jump on this as "Democrats don't have a unified voice" on Iraq. They are doing it already; I see it on talk-show after talk-show. They show the majority of democrats on one side saying "get out" and Hillary on the other preaching "Stay" as proof that "democrats aren't unified". This will be all we hear until Hillary shuts her trap. It will drown out the democrats position and message.

If Hillary is so hell bent on us "staying the course" she should at least keep her trap shut about it until AFTER the midterms. All she is doing is harming our chances for the upcoming elections with her spoiler "Bush lite" stance.

[mike_c]

1. Hillary and Joe....

Let's not forget Zell, er I mean Joe Lieberman.

[niceypoo]

5. Zell has no pull in the democratic party....he is seen as republican

Even the GOP is hiding Zell. Lieberman isn't taken seriously and he doesnt have the star power Hillary does. Hillary is the lightening rod of the democrats. Every word she utters about Iraq is 'news'.

[mike_c]

8. I didn't seriously mean to suggest that Zell Miller has any influence....

It was a joke.

[Strawman]

2. Meh. People are pissed and fatigued with this bunch

Incumbents are in trouble and that means Republicans will lose the most. People are more attentive to how quickly the total has been running up at the gas pump than any of these political news programs hardly anyone watches. When they see Bush on TV I suspect they're mostly just sick of seeing his mug which means he can't really help any Republicans in trouble, only hurt them.

I'd prefer it if the Dems were unified on getting out of Iraq. But do I think it will save the Republicans? Nope.

[izzie]

3. Hillary does not leave me feeling to good. Not sure why yet.

Besides the endless ego thing for power that I feel she has. She has always been interested in social things so it may be just me. The Right seem to like to take out their hate of Bill on her. This is were we get to what is in peoples mind even if it is not true.

[saltpoint]

4. Respectfully disagree. The Republicans are running some absolutely

horrendous candidates in the House and Senate races in 2006 and those candidates have already pretty much stunk up the place on their own.

Senator Clinton will keep a relatively below-radar profile through the end of the first week in November, during which she will be crushing her GOP opponent, KT McFarland, to death with over 60% of the New York vote. She won't even do all that much traveling until after that race to avoid the appearance of grandstanding for higher office at the expense of her NY constituents.

[niceypoo]

6. If Hillary keeps a low profile, I will be happy

but she needs to keep her mouth shut on her "Stay the course" crap. If she keeps it up her position vs the democrats position will become the main focus of Rove. They will use it to claim that the democrats "can't come up with a plan" for Iraq.

[saltpoint]

10. The public has decided that Bush's war was an ill-considered move.

I think that's going to cast a very long shadow over the 06 midterms, and that the Republican candidates -- those horrendous ones I mentioned above -- are going to find themselves in a bit of a stew trying to defend an indefensible and increasingly unpopular "war" in the Middle East.

By all counts, George Allen should be coasting to re-election in the Old Dominion, and as the week ended, he found himself only 5 points ahead of Jim Webb.

Not a good sign for the Republicans when one of its up-til-now successes is under such strong challenge.

And then there's Connecticut. Lamont is really putting the heat on Lieberman, and it's political and not personal: the Bush smoochin' has really wounded Joe.

Rove will do his usual sludgework behind the scenes but an indefensible and disastrously-managed war is going to be very hard to smear away.

[saskatoon]

24. lamont putting the heat on Joe

Please, please please whoever is in charge of the future LET IT BE. That damn mealy mouthed Joe has got to go.

[saltpoint]

25. I'm following the Lamont-Lieberman primary from afar but I'm

enjoying it just as much as some people in Connecticut.

CTYankee and larkspur and other Connecticut DUers have put up some great posts on DU about the race.

[ladjf]

7. She's not going to shut up until Bill advises her to and he's not

going to do that.

[Cerridwen]

9. Why do we always run defense?

"the republicans will do..."
"the republicans are gonna say..."

Why, yes, yes they will do and they will say...regardless of the candidate. It does not matter who the Democrats run, the republicans will go into full attack mode. For example, eight years of smearing President Clinton, ridiculing Mrs. Clinton's health care plan, ridiculing their relationship, calling Chelsea ugly and a dog, "swift-boating" Senator Kerry, remember what they did to Senator Max Cleland? Remember what they did to mc cain, one of their own?

The only question at this point is, will we be dealing with old "baggage" or new "baggage."

How about we quit doing their dirty work for them. I doubt we'll find a "pristine" politician to put forward. Everybody has skeletons in their closet which doesn't really matter as the repubs will plant any skeletons they need anyway. Even "good works" are fodder for the repub attack dogs.

Though I've not played a lot of sports in my life, I'm pretty sure you can't win with nothing more than defensive plays in your play book.

[agio]

11. i agree

I think we need to ignore the bullshit coming from the GOP and the GOP-lite DLC. Take the battle to them: make them defend their positions.

This election will be all about getting our base energized, and to the polls.

[Cerridwen]

13. Thank you. You just told me the answer to a question

rumbling around in my head.

What is a good offensive strategy?

It was obvious but I missed it. Figures.

12 years of repub controlled congress, 6 years of repub controlled gov't. It's all on them.
750 signing statements
largest terrorist attack on u.s. soil - "solved" but not prosecuted 5 years later
etc.

[spag68]

14. defense

In football terms, defense is most nesessary, but you also have to run and throw the football to win the big games.

[Cerridwen]

16. Exactly my point n/t

[niceypoo]

20. This is true spag but...

I have seen no offense from the democrats in the last 6 years and I don't expect any now. What do we have now? Milque toast.

[spag68]

12. Hillary

I'm living in NY, and even though i'm not a big Hillary fan, I think we should save our vitriol for the rethugs.

[PWRinNY]

34. Hear hear!

Well said!

[karynnj]

15. We need to challange the value of unity

Various pundits have pushed the idea that a party has to have only one position or they are disorganized and not united. They apply this idea only to the Democrats, implicitly implying that the Republicans are in complete accord. Both Senator McCain and Senator Hagel have positions on the war that are significantly at variance with the (unstated) Bush plan. The difference between McCain’s call to greatly increase the number of soldiers and to change their mission is a at least as great as the difference between Kerry/Feingold and Levin’s amendment. Yet not one talking head has called McCain to task for not supporting the CIC of his own party.

Both Democratic plans emphasize the need to change a policy that is not working. Without Kerry, Feingold, there would have been no Levin amendment. The Democratic position would have continued to be (in Nov 2006) that "2006 should be a year of significant transition." In Nov 2005, this was a consensus position, weaker than some would have liked, that then had value as it did move the discussion. To talk about transition in 2006 in the second to last month of 2006 is nuanced beyond belief.

But there are significant areas of Democratic agreement:
- Bush's plan is not working and many mistakes were made
- We need to change the course
- No permanent bases
- Tell us the truth
- We need to transition more, more quickly to the Iraqis

[JNelson6563]

17. We proles have the power

to render her and the other neo-con appeasers irrelevant.

[union_maid]

18. I don't think so

The public as a whole is as flummoxed as anyone as to what to do next. I think that the danger is not in Hillary's position, but that the blame for this mess that is justifiably Bush's won't translate to your local Republican congressperson. That's what I'm worried about. Well, that and "voting irregularities".

[LUHiWY]

19. Been there?

Hillary's been in the big house. Seems once this happens people become insane or something.

Too much wheelin' and dealin'?

And there are a lot of people who just won't vote for a female for prez anyway...and that's real life.

This country is too deep really serious doo doo to take a chance on Hillary...trust me....

[niceypoo]

21. Im not talking about 08

Im talking about November 06.

[Vidar]

22. Lieberman is beyond redemption, but I think Hillary is too smart

to take a chance on losing the midterms, as long as we don't succumb to the rovian divide & conquer strategy. No democratic president stands a chance without congressional support. Personally I'm for Clark or Gore, but I regard Hillary as an able senator

[oasis]

23. Candidates who want Hill to stump with them will make that determination.

That's good enough for me.

[AtomicKitten]

26. your theory reeks of pessimism and blaming for predicted doom

Rove is playing his dirty tricks again, boxing in the Democrats, putting them on the defensive, making them feel like they are responsible for a plan for Iraq when, in fact, the Republicans have none. I realize people hear what they want and assign blame randomly for what apparently you are predicting will be a failure in November, but maybe it's time to roll up our sleeves and starting doing the hard work. HRC has nothing to do with November except in her own race in NY. And it's okay to have different ideas on how to fix Bush's mess, but keep in mind it is Bush's mess and stop blaming Democrats for it. I don't know why you are predicting gloom and doom in November without mentioning EVM in the same breath, but I'm not prepared to throw in the towel.

[niceypoo]

27. And Hillary is playing right into Roves hands

When Hillary goes on TV and says "Stay the course" as she did the other night on Larry king, she affects the race nationally. Don't kid yourself into thinking otherwise. Out of all the democratic women on Larrys panel, Hillary was the only one that didn't support a pullout. After all of them had voiced their position on Iraq, Larry asked why Democrats can't find unity on the issue and the camera panned to Hillarys face and she sat there looking smug and self satisfied at being the spoiler.

Between Hillary's smug arogance and satisfaction at being GOP lite, the democrat's milqtoast lack of spine, two blown elections and the media's gushing over all things republican, I really can't find anything to be optimistic about.

[AtomicKitten]

31. well she's on my shit list now

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2693948&mesg_id=2693948

[Awsi Dooger]

28. OK, we're doomed, even if Hillary sits on a toilet for months

EVM. EVM. EVM.

Diebold rules the wuuuuhhrrrlllldddd.

[niceypoo]

40. Actually if Hillary went and sat on the john til December I would be quite

happy indeed....

[sandnsea]

29. It's Dems against Bush's"failed collision course"

The only way they can frame it as Dems v Dems is if we help them.

[niceypoo]

39. "We" don't have to. Hillary is doing it for them.

If Hillary would only keep her trap shut until after the midterms we would most likely win big but her ego won't let her do that...

[sandnsea]

41. I agree with that

But we don't have to be triangulating idiots just because she is.

[Cocoa]

30. fear Hillary

she is all-powerful.

anti-Hillary hype from both sides. :eyes:

[guidod]

32. Hillary is a spineless asshole!

Fuck the DLC! :mad: :mad:

[TayTay]

33. I don't think this is at all accurate.

I am not the biggest fan of Sen. Clinton, but it is ridiculous to set her up as the fall person for a race that hasn't even really formed yet. I can understand that some people want to nationalize the race. But to blame losses that haven't even happened on someone who is not on the national ballot is ah, premature at best. (And the wrong thing to do in any case.)

I agree with Sen. Clinton on a lot of things. I saw her give that speech last week at the TBA conf and the part that wasn't in the press reports was the genuine concern and passion she had when she talked about the plight of the first responders to the 9/11 disaster in NYC and how those poor folks are being given the shaft by the Bush Admin. She was being an effective advocate for a group that the nation would rather not think about. (Hey, we only think about 9/11 as a rallying cry, not something that has ongoing and serious repercussions for real people.) I may not end up voting for Sen. Clinton should she choose to run for national office, but I respect the woman and I think this OP is a 'swift boating' of her and is totally unearned and unfair.

[niceypoo]

38. Hillary hasn't the yarbles to take a stand on Iraq because she is scared..

.....that she will be labeled a "Flip flopper" in 08 if she does. Everything she does plays into Rove's BS. That and her warped delusion that republicans will vote for her in 08 if she pretends to be a republican.....

[columbusdem]

35. This is a Republican misinformation campaign

Republicans like to talk about things in a matter-of-fact way so that it seems like common knowledge and even we Democrats start to believe it. By talking down Senator Clinton over and over, they have created the appearance that everybody is sick of her. The things we should focus on are the splits between Republicans, like the rift between McCain and Bush over the war or the rift between Specter and Bush over the judicial nomination process.

[LittleClarkie]

36. Only 13 Senators said get out by July 2007. The rest left it open ended.

That's hardly Hillary on one side and the rest on the other.

[niceypoo]

37. I stand corrected, she has Zell and Lieberman with her

How could I have missed that??

[donsu]

42. Hillary won't spoil it - the rigged voting machines will

nt