Godsmack's Sully gets smacked for selling the military!!!!! HuffPo

[inthebrain]

This is some really wonderfull work. For an Alice in Chains derivative I think Layne Stayley would spit in Sully's face for this crap.

I was happy to hear Pearl Jam's "Layne" at the end of the Lost Dogs CD. He ripped this idiot a new one for capitalizing on them. I've always hated the derivative assholes that followed up the Seattle thing. I thought those guys wrote songs that railed against the establishment wile striving to be unique.

I'm glad someone ripped one of them for being a greedy pig; (Link to the whole HuffPo article at the bottom)


Referring to Greg Goldin's 2003 article in the L.A. WEEKLY, "Selling War: How the military's ad campaign gets inside the heads of recruits," Jay didn't exactly get the interview off to a palsy-walsy start.

JAY: So I notice you guys have been really involved with promoting the military.
SULLY: Well, they actually came to us, believe it or not. Somebody in the Navy loves this band, because they used 'Awake' for three years and then they came to us and re-upped the contract for another three years for 'Sick of Life.' So, I don't know. They just feel like that music, someone in that place thinks that the music is very motivating for recruit commercials I guess. And hey, I'm an American boy so it's not... I'm proud of it.

JAY: You're proud of recruiting your fans into the military?

SULLY: Well, no. Don't be turning my fucking words around, you!

JAY: Well, tell me what you mean. You said your music is powerful, it's got an effect, like you said, and you're letting the military use it. The military, who are they recruiting? 18-to-30-year-olds, right?

SULLY: I guess... I don't know what their recruit age is. I know it's at least 18.

JAY: Yeah, they do down in the high schools now.

SULLY: My thing is... Listen, here's my thing with the military. I'm not saying our government is perfect. Because I know that we make some mistakes and we do shitty things BUT, BUT. You wouldn't have your job, and we wouldn't have our lives, if we weren't out there protecting this country so we could lead a free life. So there's kind of a ying and a yang to that. Sometimes it's not always the best choices that we make, or we stick our noses in other people's shit, but at the same time, we protect this place enough that we're able to like pursue careers and do what a lot of people in other countries aren't able to do. They're kind of picked and they're chosen to be whatever they become... I'm, I'm, I'm proud to be an American, I'll tell you that.

JAY: So your country, right or wrong?

SULLY: Uh, no. Not right or wrong. But I'm proud to be an American. I love my country. I've seen the depressions and how people live in other countries and how they're told what to be, and they don't have the choices that we have. I do love that about our country. So, you know... And I actually sympathize with a lot of the soldiers, and the military in general, that are trained to go out and protect FOR us, and what they have to go through, it's really kind of shitty in a sense that these young kids have to go over there and die, sometimes, for something that isn't our fucking problem. And that kind of sucks. So what I have to do is at least support them, because they don't have the choice that we do.


After some more sparring, Jay and Sully got into it pretty heavy.

JAY: Well I have a quote from you here: "We've always been supportive of our country and our president, whereas a lot of people I thought"—and you said this in 2003, to MTV News, you said—"a lot of people I thought lashed out pretty quickly at what we did and I thought the government did everything pretty cleanly and publicly as possible."
SULLY: Yeah...?

JAY: Well, what are you talking about?

SULLY: That was my opinion at the time. The whole war thing, and trying to keep us up to date like... If you remember, back in other wars, we didn't have the opportunity to follow it through the media, and CNN, and the news—live updates and that kind of thing. And I thought that for the most part you know we were allowed to follow it as best we could through the media sources that were feeding us information.

JAY: You didn't think the media was being controlled by the military?

SULLY: Well, it could be. I don't know.

JAY: You didn't look into it?

SULLY: Listen. Are you a fucking government expert?

JAY: I'm not telling people to go join the military and then not knowing what the military is doing.

SULLY: I don't tell people to go join the military!!

JAY: You don't think using your songs—the POWER of your music, which you were talking about—has an effect on the people that hear it when it goes with the visuals that the best P.R. people in the world use?

SULLY: Oh man, are you like one of those guys that agrees with some kid that fuckin' tied a noose around his neck because Judas Priest lyrics told him to?

JAY: You were telling me how powerful your music was, and what age the people are that listen to it, and you must have thought, 'Well the Navy sure thought it was useful,' so you tell me.

SULLY: Hey, listen. The Navy thought.... It's the same reason why wrestlers work out to the music, and extreme motocross riders listen to the music and do what they do. It's ENERGETIC music. It's very ATHLETIC. People feel that they get an adrenaline rush out of it or whatever, so, it goes with whatever's an extreme situation. But I doubt very seriously that a kid is going to join the Marines or the US Navy because he heard Godsmack as the underlying bed music in the commercial. They're gonna go and join the Navy because they want to jump out of helicopters and fuckin' shoot people! Or protect the country or whatever it is, and look at the cool infra-red goggles.

JAY: You said to MTV, "We're not a very political band but we're supportive of the U.S. military and how they approach things."

SULLY: Listen. Someone turned that around. I never said "and how they approach things."


This led to the explosion I was talking about and to Sully slamming down the phone on Jay and refusing to get back on with him, even after Jay promised the publicist he would just talk about the songs on the new album (IV). Only read the transcript if you don't mind a little a lot of foul language.

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/howie-klein/not-all-rock-stars-are-li_b_20648.html

[Trajan]

1. Wow ....

Wasn't he being baited a tad ? ...

It seemed that the interviewer WAS putting words in his mouth ....

I frankly don't see how what he said was terrible .... I am proud to be american, even IF I am NOT proud of the party in power at this moment ....

IF America were not a great and wonderful experiment in freedom, then what is there to protect from Bush ? ... why bother to rescue something bad or wrong if it isnt worth rescuing ?

AGAIN: MORE cynicism .. without hope ....

I have MUCH Hope .... I feel we CAN rescue OUR land from these numbskulls: and hatred of self will not get me there ....

I did NOTHING wrong, and neither did at least HALF of your fellow countrymen .....

[inthebrain]

2. He wasn't baited

The point being made is one that all artist know about advertisers. These agencies hire psychologists to gear the message of their ads.

Toy manufacturers and clothing companies are known for this. The idea is to make the product appear as something kids can't live without. Even to go so far as to make kids feel innadequate for not owning the product.

The millitary hires the best in the business and that's no secret. When you sell your work to a company that work becomes synonomous with the product.

That's the prime reason why many artists are hesitant to get into that game.

Sully has been in the game long enough to know this.

[gratuitous]

3. I think the boy was trying to have it both ways

The band is taking money from the government so the military can use its songs. Without prompting, dinglefritz (I don't know who this fellow is, much less do I care) says he is "proud" of that. When the interviewer asks if he's proud to be recruiting for the military, he finally (?) figures out how it might be perceived, and gives the interviewer what for.

Then he comes off with the wholly disingenuous remark that he's not sure how old the recruits are for the military. Oh sure, dinglefritz is so proud of the country, so in tune with the military, but he doesn't even know the age of recruits. Pardon me if I call bullshit.

Then it's time for dinglefritz to take the dogma out for a walk with the whole canard that our system of government is somehow based on our military might, and that we citizens would have no freedom if it weren't for the military.

Nauseating.

[Trajan]

4. I wasnt pleased to hear Godsmack in a military ad .....

and perhaps Sully is a tad naive about the impact of what all this means ....

But there is NO DOUBT that a great deal of speculation was interjected, fallaciously, into the intent of his words .... Yes; one can chastise someone for not being aware, but to insist they are ACTIVELY promoting something which they clearly are not overtly promoting, I simply think it is wrong ....

I think that there are bigger and more suitable targets for EXTREME hatred, if that is what makes one pleased with themself, then feeding this particular person subjective opinions, which he obviously denies on their face.

One might call the interviewers assertions "Strawman Fallacies', if one were so inclined to analyse them ... inadvertant support doesnt equal active, overt, knowledgeable support ....

[inthebrain]

5. Read this quote

Pick out the straw man.

JAY: You don't think using your songs—the POWER of your music, which you were talking about—has an effect on the people that hear it when it goes with the visuals that the best P.R. people in the world use?

SULLY: Oh man, are you like one of those guys that agrees with some kid that fuckin' tied a noose around his neck because Judas Priest lyrics told him to?





Rest assured, the only one laying out the straw man fallacy is Sully. This guy allows recruiters to recruit at his shows and has been extremely pro Bush. I was a graphic design major and aspiting musician. I never got out of the club circuit and I knew what it meant to sell your work.

Especially to the millitary.

Sully is not naive.

[Trajan]

6. Clearly ....

The interviewer tries to interject meaning into the intention of Sully, which Sully immediately denies ....

Being ignorant of an effect one might have is NOT the same as ACTIVELY promoting a policy ...

EDIT: IF the man was actively promoting military enlistment at his own shows: well that is a different assertion ....

OK ..... do this:

1) Show some evidence of this assertion: show some extraordinary proof that the military brought recruitment operations, or even 'officially' brought a single recruiter(or recruiters) to one of their shows ....

2) Show ANY instance where Sully asserts a 'pro-bush' advocacy. Cite ANY external evidence that DIRECTLY implicates this person with a precise quote that unequivocally promotes Bush ....

I will apologise immediately if you do .... but you must provide verifiable third party proof ....

Even then: Those 'promotions' are not on display here .... This interviewer tries to get him to say this, but he clearly doesnt get him to go along ..... classic strawman at play here ....