Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Post 10,000 - here's looking at you kid

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 04:58 PM
Original message
Post 10,000 - here's looking at you kid
Edited on Wed Apr-26-06 05:28 PM by welshTerrier2
One thing we all have in common is that we're all DU'ers ... some days i just take this place for granted ... you click a link, bring up a page, read a little, spout a few opinions, get bashed a bit, get a recommend or two ... go away ... come back tomorrow ... same thing ...

but really, thinking that most of us often engage here with our deepest thoughts and passions, most of us strangers in some sense, is nothing short of remarkable ... each of us sees the world a little differently and yet we come here to contribute toward some purpose in some way ...

and DU has grown and grown from its wacky infancy into a growing political force ... of course, it's not just DU; surely we are part of something larger ... we are part of something not yet well-defined ... make no mistake about it though, from all this chaos eminates a genuine threat to the realm ... there is no doubt our presence has become known to them ...

so to all DU'ers, my hardiest congratulations ... keep it up; do it more; do it even better ... we're scaring 'em ...

now, as to what we're doing and how we're doing it, we need to aspire to dialog and consensus building in a more effective manner ... we're never going to have agreement on each issue or even any issue for that matter ... but we spin our wheels more than need be ... positions harden and no path to truce is sought ... all would benefit from greater unity ...

and so here is what i propose ... I see two key areas of conflict on DU ... one seems to be between those who see themselves as pragmatists who are willing to overlook certain deficiencies or disagreements with our candidates to get rid of bush and the neo-cons and restore the party to power ... their view is that regaining control must be the first step before any progress on anything can be made ... the second group, often labeled "the left" for some reason beyond my comprehension, is frustrated with what they see as a "win at any cost; finger in the air" politically motivated agenda ... their view is that if the party condones candidates that don't represent their deeply held beliefs, we will never see any progress whether Democrats return to power or not ...

so, conflict one is between these two competing belief systems ...

and how does this conflict manifest itself on DU? ummmm, poorly? yeah, very poorly ... we all should realize that unity is ultimately necessary for either camp to succeed ... the reality is that we need each other but can't get past our differences to form the necessary teamwork ... the result is endless flaming threads and lots of bashing ... we can do better with one simple change in method ...

here's my proposal ... the "support the ticket and we'll fix it later" crowd needs to show far more respect for those being discriminated against, those who have in many ways internalized the madness of this war, and those who genuinely do not believe the party is willing to stand up to the tough challenges and start representing them ... respect the passion of these people; don't insult them ... these are passionate warriors; enlist them don't alienate them ...

and passionate warriors, insulting the candidates of loyal followers, beyond a focus on your legitimate disagreements on the issues, will not serve your purposes ... keep your eye on the grape ... your mission should be to win support for your issues from those in power and those who follow them ... criticism is fine; bashing is not the way ...

here's the very simple solution ... it's the piece that DU always seems to miss ... to simplify, let's just use the terms Party supporters and issue supporters ... Party supporters say "put your issue aside for now and support the Party"; issue supporters say they will not support the Party if the party won't support their issues ... the solution is simple ...

the Party needs to endorse, as an ultimate and eventual objective, the positions passionately held by its grassroots ... for example, there can be no compromise on equal rights for all ... period ... none ... where there can be compromise, and often must be compromise, is on tactics and timing ... that's where issue supporters, buoyed by an unequivocal platform plank endorsing their values, can demonstrate some flexibility ... so, for example, whether you view civil unions instead of gay marriage as "politically pragmatic", it becomes far easier for gays to see that as a "transitional approach" when the party endorses 100% equal rights for gays ... the idea here is to move both camps away from their strident extremes ... separate the party's stated values from its political tactics and timing ... that's the only path toward greater flexibility from both sides and the only path to unity ...

the second source of great conflict, and it will only get worse as we enter the next presidential primary season, is conflict between supporters of one candidate versus another ... i'm an issues person; not a candidate supporter ... take it from me, nothing has less credibility than someone supporting a candidate who NEVER disagrees with their candidate and changes their positions on issues only when their candidate does ... i would be no more influenced by a talking parrot ...

the candidate supporters i read the most and respect the most are those who sometimes say they don't like what their candidate said or how they voted on some issue ... doing that makes you, the supporter, much more credible later when you praise your candidate ...

one last group i want to address - it's the "non-forgiveness" group ... there can be no absolutes here ... if you'll just never forgive someone for what they did or how they voted, OK ... those are your values and that's the way it is ... I would only ask you to realize that, however legitimate your criticism, i still think there's room to respect that person's current actions ... it doesn't mean you have to like them or vote for them; still, if they're now fighting the good fight on some issue, it's helpful to recognize that ... frankly, we need all the support we can get even from those who have failed us in the past ... part of complimenting their current action is to help build their current position, assuming you agree with them, into a unifying consensus ... you send a very unclear signal when someone proposes a great healthcare bill and you bash them because they voted to approve a Supreme Court nominee you didn't like ... again, support them ON THIS ISSUE; it doesn't mean you'd vote for them ... this adds integrity to your posts and to you and tones down the hostilities around here at least a notch or two ...

so, that's my long-winded jabber ... 10,000 posts ... all of them probably a little too long ... thanks for reading ... keep up the great work DU; you really are making a difference!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. Congratulations on 10,000!
You've shared some great thoughts here, and I'm glad you posted this in GDP rather than the Lounge. I never would have seen it because I block Lounge posts from my "Latest" page.

Anyway, congrats and thanks for being here! :pals: :toast: :party:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. congratulations and best wishes
Another source of conflict --- grudge holders.

I am evolving, in life and here on DU. I appreciate the gracious nature of those whom I have locked horns with in the past and are willing to not hold it against me. We all have are days, our moments. I'm trying to read nonpolitical stuff and hang with nonpolitical friends from time to time to let my brain air out.

The bottom line is treating people respectfully. The best conversations I've had are with those I think I disagree with, only later to find out we have much in common. We have an epic battle ahead and I trust most of us consider each other comrades rather than adversaries.

So, welshTerrier2, many happy returns. Thanks for your much-appreciated efforts at DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Congratulations on the big 10,000 .... and.....
I dunno which of those DU groups I'm in.. but if I'm in the one you don't like.. it's all AtomicKitten's fault!!

Atomic ---> <--- Me

~~~~~~~~ (( ))

DU'ers on our annual field trip:



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. yo momma
:)


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-26-06 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Right back atcha
Edited on Wed Apr-26-06 05:24 PM by larissa

Thanks for the post Welsh Terrier ~~ :hug:

(geez, I wish I had one of those puppies!)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-27-06 01:50 PM
Response to Original message
6. Kicked.
because welshTerrier2 deserves recognition.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-27-06 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. woOT!!
I am very happy for you, wT2, and happy to know you. :toast:


I would have about that many by now if I hadn't started over with a new screen name. Oh, well.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-27-06 10:48 PM
Response to Original message
8. (((((((((((((((((((( LISTEN )))))))))))))))))))))
:loveya:



One problem with strategery is that too many people sell out their principles based on their belief that OTHERS are selling out theirs. The strategerist then decides everyone should sell out principle like they did because they think everyone else did/will/should.

That is not :patriot: that's :crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC