What about organizing some roses or a thank you to John Kerry for the

[saracat]

Iraq withdrawal resolution he presented? It seems he is doing the one thing that many have asked for and it it being overshadowed by the Libby squeal. I think he deserves a big Thank you! Maybe not roses but I don't see why not.Any suggestions or volunteers?

[madame defarge]

1. I think he'd prefer...

that we all co-sign his Senate resolution calling for troop withdrawal...

http://www.johnkerry.com/action/deadline/

[NMDemDist2]

2. and send $$$ to his PAC n/t

[saracat]

3. We should do that too!

[Jersey Devil]

80. Right! Done, and kicked

Enough with the roses. If we are going to spend let's make it where it counts - campaign donations

[katty]

4. send $

[HereSince1628]

5. Eh??????? I sent Feingold roses on my own because no one else

was interested.

WTF????????

[Capn Sunshine]

70. I sent Russ flowers too

from our local DFA chapter.

So you weren't really alone.
But party-driven DU has yet to recognize risky behavior as something worth encouraging within the party.

Kerry might be in a different spot today if he'd come out with this in 2004.

But it was too risky.

[blm]

6. I'm sure he'd prefer we co-sponsor his resolution -

He's always been a very serious lawmaker, and getting this plan spread around and in the public eye is what he would want more than anything, imo.

[saracat]

Why can't we do both?

[WildEyedLiberal]

11. I'm actually not sure

If sending gifts is legally allowed. IN fact, I don't think it is. I think Boxer had to donate all her roses to Walter Reed Army Hospital because accepting gifts is against lobbying rules.

I know that it's inane that DUers can't send someone roses but Jack Abramoff can buy all sorts of lavish shit for Tom Delay, but you KNOW if someone so much as gives Kerry a brownie the news media will be all over it - "KERRY ACCEPTS GIFTS FROM LEFT WING LOBBYISTS!!"

I wonder if we could donate to the USO in Kerry's name? It's one of his favorite charities and helps the soldiers. I will probably donate to his PAC today in gratitude.

[blm]

13. of course -

I just see him most comfortable with an action action - heh - I know you know what I mean. ;)

[Joe for Clark]

7. Kerry,

Oh Please, he lost an election he should have won and doomed a thousand kids by failing to fight -

No more Kerry - Some of us have kids that will pay for his "Lack" of fighting.

Joe

[saracat]

8. So you don't support the resolution?

Odd. If you want to protect those kids. Interesting it took Kerry to sponsor this.

[WildEyedLiberal]

9. LOL, you're cute

You care about the war? You should care about Kerry's resolution to end it, then.

Come on, show your support for ending the war and sign: http://www.johnkerry.com/action/deadline/

That's right, now you can DO something about the war instead of just bitch about it. Thanks to Kerry!

[Joe for Clark]

14. What do you know about war??

I know a lot - I got to live with it A LOT.

Kerry is not a fighter - he is a loser - We can't afford to lose anymore, the stakes are VERY high.

In my family I am the only male to not go to war - the only one.

We cannot afford to back anymore losers.

My kid goes back in three weeks - don't you ever talk to me about what war means. I lived with it growing up and I live with it as a parent.

Kerry isn't it. We have to move on.

Joe

[WildEyedLiberal]

15. Then sign the fucking resolution.

Or else you're all talk and no walk. You can tell me how much you supposedly "know about war" until you're blue in the face, but the fact that you're trashing John Kerry the same day he goes on the floor of Congress and presents a resolution to end the war tells me volumes more than your words.

[saracat]

17. Do you actually know Gen. Clark? Because I do, and I think he would be

ashamed of your reaction.

[Joe for Clark]

19. I do not know him personally -

But you are wrong.

The people I grew up with fought a great war - and they understood citizen soldier, VERY well.

SO, I don't know him - BUT I know WAR, I KNOW what it does to people, I really know.

End of the day - my kid goes back - again - because why?? Kerry couldn't really fight as he said he would??

He is not a great man, I think CLark is - because I think he would have done what he believed.

DO not tell me about war - don't - you will get a diatribe you will not handle well, and I am still a democrat, despite Lieberman.

Joe

[WildEyedLiberal]

20. We can handle you just fine

There are illogical people on blogs every day; you're no exception. Signed that resolution yet, Mr. "I hate war"?

[Joe for Clark]

22. No, and I won't.

Please, tell me your experience - really, I do want to know. Maybe I missed something growing up - and I'd like to think so.

Please reinforce this, I'd really like to believe it, I just can't.

I know Murtha is probably right - I know from experience - and I know this isn't political anymore - the day your childs life is in the equation it isn't political.

Please reinforce the statments made -

Do you know war??


Joe

[rockymountaindem]

27. So you're going to let your hatred of Kerry stop you from signing

a resolution to end the war you purport to hate. That makes a lot of sense :sarcasm:

I'd ask if some Clark-related PAC paid you to schill for him, but General Clark is far too classy for your kind of tactics and short-sightedness. He would back Kerry on this, and the General takes the high road. You, on the other hand...

[Joe for Clark]

29. Can't you tell me what you understand??

I can think for myself - I understand many things -

What do you know - TELL ME?

I mostly think Gore should be President.


Like I said, you know nothing about war, what it does, or you wouldn't post that -

I do not think we can afford to lose anymore - and the guy is a loser, that simple.

Not that he is a bad buy, he just can't win. And we better win.

Joe

[Mass]

31. If you have so many pbs with Kerry, why dont you avoid pro-Kerry threads.

Who cares if Kerry can win right now. This is NOT what this thread is about.

It is about the proposal he made today.

Either you agree with it or you dont. It is not that complex.

[Joe for Clark]

39. Your right -

I have been to a few of those graduation classes - and I know some of those kids that died, horrible deaths, because of the political results.

We had to win to save those boys, and we lost.

It is a sore point with me. Cause those were good kids, I knew a lot of those kids - and they are dead now.

Joe

[karynnj]

51. Kerry did campaign to win

Did you watch the campaign at all? The TV coverage was incredibly biased. Kerry had just 4 events to let people see him not filtered by the media. (The last convention night and the 3 debates - and he made the most of them.) He, his family, friends and the Edwards were out their every day for months.

The strategy of going for the swing states would have worked - if the Ohio party could have functioned properly on routine things - like looking aty the reports of how many machines were to be placed where and having enough people to assist those who needed help figuring out where and how to vote. Kerry very likely motivated enough people to go out to vote for him- but you can't count votes not cast as people left rather than wait 4 plus hours or votes improperly cast or registions improperly processed. I can't prove this - but what percent of people do you think would stay and wait in a line that long? Percents I would guess (but couldn't defend) would be more than enough.

The actual operation of the local parties isn't controlled by the Presidential candidate - he has enough to do. Kerry nearly won in spite of having everything against him.

[Joe for Clark]

54. Kerry won the damn thing, he really did

Where was the fight? - I think Edwards (and I do not like him, paticularly) was willing to fight - but where was he??

It is my problem with the guy - cause we have to have a fighter to win this.

Joe

[rockymountaindem]

64. Here's what I know

This war needs to end ASAP.

Kerry proposed a resolution today to try and accomplish that.

For some focacta reason, you won't sign it.

This is a resolution to end the war, not a Presidential election.

What else do I need to know?

[Vektor]

38. Haven't signed it yet?

Then you must like the war. Way to look out for that kid you claim to have at war.

Come to think of it....a lot of folks show up here bitching about Kerry claiming to have kids at war, then refuse to adopt an anti-war stance.

Hmmm.

They usually get axed pretty quick, too. That's a very old and transparent tactic.

[blm]

21. Clark would have had the same DNC not supporting a recount that Kerry had

Neither Bill Clinton or Terry MacAuliffe believed in voting machine fraud. They apparently believed it was OK to let Ohio's Dem party infrastructure collapse after 1996, too.

In 2004, Clark would have had the same DNC, same lame Dem pundits, same weak left media, and same board of elections in Ohio that Kerry had.

[Joe for Clark]

25. Do not pretend to tell me what General Clark would have done.

He was a general officer of the United States Army - many of our parents were officers of the United States Army -

They WOULD have done the right thing.

They almost died to do the right thing.


Joe

[blm]

30. So did Kerry - and laid his life on the line again to expose IranContra,

BCCI, and CIA drugrunning - not friendly areas for any lawmaker to be in.

And don't PRESUME that you have earned rights that I have not. I have only said that Clark would have been under the same circumstances with NO backup that Kerry was in 2004 - there's no dispute to be made there.

And if Clark had a plan to deal with the voting machines before November, I know he would have shared those plans with Kerry, because the two have been good friends for years and long before either ran for president.

[Joe for Clark]

33. You presume an awful lot.

My total wisdom is that our kids should be brought home now, thats it.

I PRESUME you have no idea of the fights being waged now, I also presume you have no interest in the OUTCOME.

DO YOU??


My kids life is in the balance - is yours??


Screw Kerry - Murtha makes a lot of sense to me. To a lot of of us.


Joe for Gore

[Mass]

34. Ok, you disagree with him - It would have been simpler to say so and

to leave, rather than hijacking the thread.

Listen, assuming that your story is true, I am sorry for your son. But your posts have a different flavour for me.

[Joe for Clark]

50. I cannot lave a fight - not that takes my kid

Oh, indeed - what is this flavor - I do not understand -

Boy goes back in a few weeks, what is not clear??

You have a question PM me.

Joe

[blm]

37. That's pure BS - Kerry's is the only SPECIFIC withdrawal plan that sets a

date and an ultimatum - he has included aspects of Murtha's plan into his because he and Murtha have been working together for a few weeks now to make this happen.

Why the badgering attack on Kerry AND us? It just doesn't make sense that the day a solid, detailed Iraq withdrawal plan is submitted that you would set course to attack it. Especially if your concern is for immediate withdrawal - May 15 demand is as immediate as it gets.

[Joe for Clark]

41. Jesus, do you believe the world is flat, too??

I only have a problem with Kerry - the day he failed to fight doomed many of our kids - it really did.

They are dead now - that did NOT have to happen.

I just want someone who can fight - and it ain't him.


I grew up with guys that could fight this out - and he was not in the mix, at all.

Maybe it can be a Biden, or a Gore, or someone else - I know his name does NOT start with a K -

so, he better just be glad he is a senator.

I want to win this - we have to win this - Kerry has to go to the back of the line now.


Thats all,

Joe

[WildEyedLiberal]

42. So sign the petition

Jesus. I'm starting to think you don't actually care about the war, but only with your stupid disrupting pissing games.

[Joe for Clark]

44. OK.

I care about my kid - at some point in your life your kids are your only reality.

Kerry is wrong.

He is an idiot, persuaded by the public. It is not good enough. Maybe some day you will be old enough to understand that - you are not now.


Something wicked this way comes - it is true. We don't stop it, we give it breath - and that IS the problem.

Bad things happen in war - very bad - how dare we enable this - in Gods name, you know??


Joe

[WildEyedLiberal]

53. I understand that you are making ZERO sense

Kerry is wrong about wanting to end the war? You don't care too much about your kid if you want the war to continue, then.

If you care so much about your damn kid, then sign the fucking petition. It's not too hard. I mean, since you care about WAR so much. :eyes:

[Joe for Clark]

56. I don't understand what you don't understand -

I care about my kid that much - tell me what you REALLY understand.

How dare you lecture me - how dare you?

The problem is I so doubt you understand war, AT ALL.

I think I do, a little. I don't think you do at ALL.

Kerry can go screw himself - those kids needed him - and he walked away.

Well the chickens come home to roost eventually - This will be a bloody summer - QUOTE ME-

Kerry could have stopped it, he didn't - I want someone that CAN, don't you???

DO NOT EVER tell me about war - I lived it for generations - and I can see you didn't.

Joe

[saracat]

59. You really jump to a lot of conclusions considering you don't know to whom

you are speaking.And as for lecturing, you seem to do a pretty fair job of that yourself. You are spouting some pretty RW stuff wrapped in anti-war rhetoric. You need to show a bit of tolerance for others viewpoints particularly as all of us are , allegedly on the same side. Unless of course you are special?

[Joe for Clark]

62. Man, I am NOT special - I didn't have to do the "deal".

I have no tolerance for idiots, not at all - cause I know they kill good kids, I know for a fact.

My kid is one one those kids now - a very strange position I find myself in, really.

I got a bunch of business degees - and today I know it was on my parents "WWIIs" GI backs.

I think Karma is right and Paying it forward is a correct concept -

That is where we find ourselves today, you know.


I am not special - I think I learned the right lessons, thats all,

God hopes we all did,

Joe

[WildEyedLiberal]

71. "I got a bunch of business degrees"

You sound REAL edumacated. :eyes:

[saracat]

81. IFor an educated person it seems odd that you have no sense of grammar

and can't spell. Is that deliberate on your part?

[Mass]

43. OK, but what does this have to do with anything in this thread.

Nobody except you is speaking about 08. He is doing his senator's job and this is what we are talking about.

That's all.

[blm]

61. Haha...they would have had the same Dem infrastructure - and there are

PLENTY of men who are ALIVE TODAY because Kerry stuck his neck out and fought.

There isn't a lawmaker alive who has saved more lives than Kerry. Don't lecture me when you can't even get history right.

[karynnj]

52. What was the right thing

[Joe for Clark]

67. That is the million dollar question.

At what point is the wrong right??

I still am not sure of that answer.

But it is the question before us -

Joe

[ProSense]

73. A ton of criticism without an ounce of solution, and riddles.

Sounds like Rumsfeld with the "known knowns, known unknowns and the unknown unknowns." No more riddles, please!

[sandnsea]

23. Sabatoge is a dumb war strategy

As is mixing politics with battle plans. This isn't about Clark or Kerry, it's about ending the war, plain and simple.

[brentspeak]

47. And more specifically, Gen Clark would be supporting Kerry

[politicasista]

49. Absoulutely. n/t

[LittleClarkie]

26. We're not trying to get him elected fucking president here

You go to war with the warrior you have, not the one you may need or want.

But if you like, you can wait for someone more to your liking, if you think your kid has that kind of time. We'll take what's in front of us and use it.

Meanwhile, the dude is a Senator with a job to do. He's not going away. So why not support the plan even if you're not thrilled with the man behind the plan. If he can build momentum where others couldn't, more the better.

[TayTay]

45. That means no one who ran in the '04 cycle can run either

btw, because they are all losers. They lost to Kerry.

Just something to chew on.

[LittleClarkie]

24. I will share in that responsibility

I failed in my bid to get him elected. Sorry about your kids. We tried.

[Vektor]

32. Here's a great idea!

Why don't you go ahead and take the histrionics elsewhere? This "WAHHHH!! HE LET US DOWN" B.S. is so stale it's petrified.


I'm a little perplexed as to why you bothered to click on a thread entitled "Roses for Kerry" anyway.

Odd too, I've never seen a rude Clark supporter. All of the General's supporters I have seen here are nothing but gracious.

This is strange indeed.

[brentspeak]

48. Kerry is a lousy campaigner, but he's an honorable Senator

And I don't understand this "I know War" thing. It makes as much sense as Bo Jackson saying "Bo KNOWS football."

[WildEyedLiberal]

72. ...

:rofl:

[pacalo]

10. Just a thought, but how about balloon bouquets or candy bouquets.

I really like the idea of sending money, but a visual expression displayed in his office speaks volumes of the People's desire to be represented.

[WildEyedLiberal]

12. He IS a chocaholic

However, see my above post about lobbying laws. I'm not sure if we're legally allowed to send him anything he can keep or use - Boxer got away with the roses because she donated them to Walter Reed. If we sent Kerry chocolate and he ate it, he'd probably be indicted. :eyes:

[saracat]

16. He can send the roses to Walter Reed! But chocolate sculpture might work !

I just think we need a visual show of support for his action. The press and Repukes need to know he has support.And I personally would like him to know he has support! Tons of chocolate would be rather neat! Maybe we could even get a chocolate factory to donate something neat in chocolate, a sculpture of something he likes? Or maybe an American Eagle for patriotism? He does fight for the SBA.
I once had lunch next to JK and he ate two huge peices of chocolate cake. I think that says something very good about a man! Yum!

[blm]

18. I like the idea of donating to a veterans' cause in Kerry's name.

Are there specific programs at Walter Reed that accept donations?

[Joe for Clark]

66. You don't answer the quesion -

I am Catholic, so is Kerry (so is CLark) - Is what he did was right in 2004? It IS the question.

I know it shouldn't be, but it is. I will never vote for him again becuase ot it - Never.

What-so-ever-you-do -to-the-least-of-my-brothers -that was the quesion.


He got it wrong.


Joe

[WildEyedLiberal]

75. You're insane, is the answer

Bye!

[TayTay]

46. It's kind of unethical

Ahm, I would sign the form, sign the new one from MoveOn.Org and make a donation in the name of the troops to the USO or the new soldiers hospital in Texas.

I, of course, speak only for me.

[saracat]

57. The problem is that as wonderful as these ideas are

they do not give either Kerry or his resolution the publicity it needs. A huge gesture would do that. My point was not only to show our gratitude but also to drum up support and open a few eyes! I do see I was able to flush out some hypocrisy at least!

[TayTay]

60. I think that's all to the good

But I am queasy about gifts to legislators. (I was queasy about this for Barbara Boxer and the flowers.) It just doesn't feel right.

Like I said, it's just me.

[beachmom]

68. You can't send ANYTHING of any monetary value to a politician

Before the recent lobbyist bill passed, there was an under $50 rule, but now they've eliminated that. It would be great if we could somehow generate publicity but technically now you couldn't send him $1. If you donate to the USO, it CANNOT be in his name, at least inferring that it is somehow a gift to him. All you can do is sign the petitions, send money to his PAC, or perhaps send money to the USO and write him a thank you note (which will take about 2 months to get there) saying you were inspired by his speeches to give to the troops. That's it, folks. Gifts to politicians are over.

[WildEyedLiberal]

76. A donation in honor of someone isn't a gift to them

The money would still be going to the USO, so I don't see how that's at all illegal.

[Joe for Clark]

69. If I really thought it was his belief, I would be more gentle

I know it isn't-

All political.

Kerry is not our friend - how could he have been, he chose not to be.

The war is our enemy. I think Gore would be good, Dean would be good - Kerry - it is sad.

He was so smart when he was young, how could he be so wrong in old age - so sad.

I hope you do flush out hypocisy, I really do.

Joe

[WildEyedLiberal]

77. No you don't

Go home, it's past your bedtime.

[sandrakae]

79. Okay now you did it. I have to speak up.

Gore was within 537 votes and did not fight for that victory. On election night John Kerry was 120,000 votes behind. He said if it was within 50 thousand he would have demanded a recount. How can you Criticize someone who did not drag out the inevitable with a 120,000 vote deficit but not think anything wrong with someone that had a 537 vote deficit. I admire Gore and this is not a Bash on him, but he left us, never thanked anyone and chose not to re-run. John Kerry never left us, and is still fighting for us.

[sandnsea]

82. He joined the recount

Somebody posted the letter here a few days ago. He joined the Green/Libertarian recount and wrote a letter with key points on how it should be conducted. He joined several lawsuits and is still involved, last I heard. So he did what he could, nothing materialized that he could contest any further.

[pacalo]

83. That's exactly the point! Not only is Kerry not getting the publicity

he needs, the PEOPLE aren't getting their message heard! The media hasn't even scraped that surface, unless you want to count the contrived immigration protests or the French workers' protests.

The roses-for-Helen Thomas project spoke volumes. It's an alternative way to protest in a peaceful, massive way & get our voices recognized.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

28. The rose thing is a great way to recognize some things and some people.

I think it was an appropriate gesture to acknowledge Helen Thomas' courageous service as a journalist. But ("gift" issues aside), I think it's totally overboard, and not even useful, to bury some politician in flowers just because he did his damn job. Send his campaign or a PAC some money -- I think a thousand bucks would be far more welcome under the circumstances than a thousand bucks worth of roses.

[Vektor]

35. Good idea!

If you show me your checkbook, I'll show you mine. :-)

[LittleClarkie]

36. Wait a cotton pickin' minute, here.

"an appropriate gesture to acknowledge Helen Thomas' courageous service as a journalist

So, then what is Helen Thomas' job? She's a journalist. So what was she doing? Her damn job. And she got roses.

So what is Kerry's job? He's a Senator. So what was he doing? His damn job. And some folks wanna send him roses.

I don't get the distinction myself.

[saracat]

58. I don't either.

[Catchawave]

63. I agree with ocelot

And JK would appreciate supporting his PAC, or the candidates he's supporting for 2006, rather than flowers. There's a similiar fundraiser supporting Feingold's PAC now on DU.

[pacalo]

85. I regard it as gratitude & an opportunity to get our voices heard.

It represents a peaceful, positive way of showing our disgust & feelings of desperation that have been ignored too long. Visual gratitude gets attention & compels bypassers to ask about the reasons behind it. Bottom line is, we want to be heard & to openly show gratitude to those who speak out for us!

[ProSense]

40. Days to deadline donation:

40 days until the May 15 deadline.

[blue cat]

55. I'm a Kerry supporter,

and I think it's a bad idea. Too sissy. He is doing his job and he can handle it himself, as well he should. I will never forget what he did during Vietnam. He is a big guy, doesn't need roses. We need every D to start standing up. There will be other people/reasons to give roses. We need to use our political dollars wisely. The Helen Thomas gesture was beautiful, and heart felt.

[Pryderi]

65. Why don't we send him a pink tutu while we're at it? Stop suggesting rose

s for men!

[LittleClarkie]

86. The Kerry group sent him truffle chocolates a while back

for the fillibuster. We suspect the staff ate them though.

So I would suggest feeding the Senator's sweet tooth. We know he has one.

[willers]

74. Sunflowers for Russ Feingold!

Heya, this is my first post here (I'm a DU virgin! Oooh!) and I'm not allowed to start a thread yet, so I hope this is okay to jump in here.

I'm organizing a Sunflowers for Russ Feingold campaign! We're off to a little bit of a slow start, so I can really use your help spreading the word.

They will be delivered on Monday, April 24, when Senate is back in session. It's only $10 for a bouquet of five sunflowers and an American flag!

Our dedicated toll-free number is 1-800-560-0501, and our web contact form to leave them your phone number is here: http://www.coasttocoastflorist.com/customerServiceForm.cfm?typID=18.

Please show Russ that we have his back and believe in him, even if the other Dems don't! And if you don't agree with this or would rather donate to the PPF, that's fine... just please don't pick the campaign apart, it's been a lot of work to set up.

Thanks everyone! Be gentle with me, it's my first time. ;->

[robinlynne]

78. We already organized a gift for Feingold.

Look through the older threads. there is a great project going already. you go to www.progressivepatriotsfund.com, and donate 17.76. Then sign on to the Du slit of epople who have contributed. It has been going on for 4 or 5 days now, and Feingold is receiving 100s of controbutions for 17.76. They're going to send a letter at the end with all the names. It is a gift for his roganizaiotn, whihc works to help progressive candidates, a worthwhile cause times 2.

[napi21]

84. You could call his office and thank him, but I look at that as his

job, and he should have been doing it all along.

[blm]

88. He has been doing it all along - people forget that he submitted a

withdrawal plan last October laying out steps to take while that last window of opportunity for political success in Iraq was still open. It relied on a huge withdrawal of troops immediately after their Dec 15 election, and significant drawdowns at every major step after.

He said then that the next 6months and Iraqi leaders gaining control would dictate any changes. What he saw was the further fracturing of the groups who weren't taking the idea of US withdrawal serious enough and who were getting no direction towards unifying from American leaders.

Thus, the deadline and ultimatum to the Iraqi leaders.

This plan just didn't appear from a vacuum - Kerry went to Iraq last September to discuss withdrawal plans with commanders on the ground and many Iraqi parliament members. They wanted a withdrawal plan and Kerry gave them one in October - Bush didn't budge an inch - now Kerry is putting the onus on the Iraqi leaders as well as Bush.

Bush won't act if the press buries Kerry's plan again.

[hippiechick]

87. Thanking him for doing his job ?

:wtf: Uhh ...

[LittleClarkie]

89. We thanked Helen for doing HER job

I'm not sure what the difference is.

[napi21]

90. The difference is Helen has to depend on someone calling on her

to be able to ask a question, and when they DO, she always asks good ones. Kerry is a SENATOR! He doesn't have to depend on anyone else to speak!

[LittleClarkie]

91. So we should have sent the person calling on her roses?

After all, she doesn't control that aspect.

Still her job though.