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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:13 PM
Original message
Why are there so many Hillary Clinton Threads? (negative and positive)
I thought it was fairly well decided that most people don't support her candidacy for 2008 ...

I know the media is playing it up like she's number one in the country -but most of us know that's manufactured and most of us know that she is not wildly popular or supported by the left or the right.

So why is DU subjected to endless threads focused on her. Doesn't the nature of the posts here on DU demonstrate enough evidence of the divisiveness the mere mention of her name conjures up?

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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm waiting for the Playboy interview myself n/t
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. LOL!
that would be amusing! :rofl:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. Divisiveness is the name of the game, I expect.
I couldn't care less who's running in '06, but I am concerned about how the media is feeding the frenzy, and how DUers are lapping it up.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. i'm concerned too.. it's actually divisive and demoralizing..
is that what HRC supporters intend to cultivate I wonder?
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. no, we'll leave that to you
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Ksec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. I dont know who is hated more. Hillary or men.
Seriously, everytime I log on theres numerous threads bashing men , especially caucasian men, and Hillary.

Great recruitment tool for newbies.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. That's interesting...
it just occurs to me that the GOP is having their straw polling, and everytime something that is going on in the msm, a massive amount of HRC threads appear here.

duh... her operatives are hard at work doing her bidding, drumming up a basis for that "support".

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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. Did you see Tweety's show from the GOP rally?
They showed the GOP gift shop. Now keep this in mind...the GOP is always bashing us for simply being negative, not saying anything positive about what we'll do if elected, just bashing Bush. But the GOP gift shop that Tweety and Bill Frist got such a big laugh out of featured NO "support" pins or buttons of any kind. The only things they were selling were anti-Hillary swag. "Happiness is waking up to Hillary's picture on a milk carton" was one of them.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. No I didn't see tweety's show, but you make an important point.
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 09:02 PM by radio4progressives
Across the board, all dems don't merely dislike Bush, we actually hate the bastard. But before dubya got elected a huge Hate Hillary movement was already under way, but i just didn't appreciate the full extent of it until the "Monica Lewinsky" thing came along as well as the "She murdered Vince Foster" memes. The hatred from the right is so intense, she would not be able to be good at her job, i don't believe.

We would need someone totally fresh and fairly untouchable. But I'm not talking about a milktoaste Republican Lite type either. It just seems obvious to strong loyal supporters, why would they want to see HCR go through such a brutal nightmare?

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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Hillary's the strongest American female candidate in history
There's certainly going to be a bunch of controversary.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. hmm, I think you're right, but I'm a feminist....
and have long wanted a strong woman elected as president. But after watching Thatcher, Kirkpatrick, Madeline Albright, Condi Rice and a few others - it occured to me there is no point in pushing for a Woman President, if she's going to carry on the same imperialistic/militaristic policies of every other other president in the past?

I want a woman to CULTIVATE some fundemental changes in our current policies, not carry on the same macho bullshit we see every president engage in.




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billbuckhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I think Hillary isn't the war monger she is portrayed as.
Since Watergate, Hillary has often worked to change the system from the inside out. I want the brains behind Clintonism, not Joan of Arc. I already have Cynthia McKinney here in the ATL.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Her Unwavering Support for the Iraq War disputes this assertion..
I'm surprised you would claim othewise.
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necso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
9. Some crap on TV, I'm guessing.
(Never watch that crap myself.)

A large number of threads here are started because of some crap on TV.

And it doesn't take much to get the bickering started.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. that's part of it..
i think what's playing on the tube is an indication of behind the scenes machinations and strategies... just a guess..
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necso Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Sure there are drivers beyond
the immediate vehicle. And sure there are things going on "behind the scenes".

But there are many rivers to cross between now and the presidential primaries, and I see little point in talking about things before the time is ripe... or there is some need.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. The only thing that is ripe to me, is call for impeachment..
that's the only thing that rank and file dems ought to be hammering on. that's another thing that mystifies me.. the HRC functionaries have shown absolutely no interest in this cause, and that just boggles the mind. Everything else will follow, if we just go to impeach these bastards now.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
12. " thought it was fairly well decided that most people don't support her "
Just where has THAT been decided?
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. My bad, should have said Most people HERE on DU
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fed-up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
15. If anything it should unite almost all DUers as most are against the War,
why is it so hard for people to understand that the majority of voting Democrats want to endorse a candidate that will represent them.

Heck, even the repukes are starting to see that this war was based on lies and will never end and are/will suck our countries coffers dry.

If our own party can't represent it's members then why do we expect any elected official to do so?

Maybe I am just naive and don't understand this Post 911 world.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Message should be about Iraq and Constitutional Crises
a little while back I suggested that the winning candidate will run on a very simple platform, with Out of Iraq as one component, but mostly on a Constitutional / Bill of Rights platform.

About an hour ago, i think it was on Keith Oberman or News Hour, mentioned GOP talking about Constitutional issues and Iraq at this little straw poll gathering they're doing.

I thought to myself, dammit to hell! they're stealing what the democratic message/platform that I suggested ought to be!

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fed-up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I agree-WE DESERVE BETTER, if those problems are resolved everything else
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 09:03 PM by fed-up
will have the funding and the backing of the US and the world.

There will be money to deal with global warming and natural disasters, there will be money to deal with universal/veteran's health care, education, and the environment.

We deserve to know that our government will be there for us when we need it and not spying, arresting, jailing those that disagree with its current policies of destruction and neglect.

We deserve a law abiding democratic government as an example for our citizens and for those countries that are moving towards democracy.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. exactly..
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 09:09 PM by radio4progressives
One of the problems that i have with our party refusing to back Feingold on the Patriot Act, and not capitalizing on the Domestic Spying issue is their own lack of interest on these issues, seems extremely stupid and out of touch.

Gore is absolutely correct about this point, and though I'm no Sandra Day O'Connor fan, (pissed at her for resigning and for Bush vs Gore Deciding vote) she apparently came out on the similar theme in a talk today.

By the Dems avoiding this issue, leaves it squarely in the hands for the GOP moderates and Libertarians to run away with it...

dollars to donuts, whoever does end up runing on the Constitutional Crises message/platform is going to win the 2008 presidency by a huge margin.



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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
24. I believe a lot of people sincerely like her. But I also think a lot of RW
'ers pretend to like her and really want her to get nominated. They may be underestimating her, and people who really like her have every right to make their arguments. Howeve, astroturf/false flag operations inevitably create tensions.

I think that's what's going on here.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Ineresting... astro turf is a term i'm trying to get a handle on...
but false flag operation... hmmm.. i occasionally wonder about that.

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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:09 PM
Response to Original message
26. Something else could be a play that could make DU a reality
that is not shared out on the streets. We pay attention to politics, most people don't.


I do feel that 2006 should be our focus. If we can win and if there is real justice, we will be talking about President Pelosi.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:12 PM
Response to Original message
27. Decided by whom...?
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 10:19 PM by SaveElmer
Those living in the DU fantasy bubble...?

The fact is, in the country, right now, Hillary Clinton is the most popular Democrat.

She will likely be the nominee...

And in my opinion, will probably be the next President...

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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Speaking of Fantasy Bubbles...
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 11:14 PM by radio4progressives
Where is the evidence that Hillary Clinton is the most popular Democrat in the country. The MSM polls?

As a registered Democrat, I would expect to have been personally asked whether or not I support HRC for 2008, or would i rater see someone else - I haven't been asked that question either by professional pollsters, or not even by people in the Democratic committees in my area - in fact, every single Democratic county and state committee people do not like or want Hillary Clinton. These are ole timers, by the way - and they're not on DU, and I'm not referring to PDA or DFA people. these are old time, mainsteam established caucus committee members.

Though I'm a Leftist, (and fairly more left than these old mainliners are)it appears to me that my assessment that Hillary isn't as popular "in the country" has more merit than your assertion that she is.

Could be a regional thing, but the opposition is strong and it's mostly about Hillary's position on Iraq and her alignment with the Bushies on other conservative issues.

So, the jury is still out on any such notion that HRC is the "most popular democrat in the country"... as far as I'm concerned.



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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. You are right...
I do not view polls as good evidence...particularly when they are 2 years out...even though every poll of Democrats taken clearly has Hillary Clinton well in front..

http://www.pollingreport.com/WH08dem.htm

If you are stating an opinion as to Hillary's popularity...I accept that...I disagree with it based upon my experience. I live in a purple (though turning more blue) area of a red state, and Hillary is quite a bit more popular here than even I would have expected. In fact, in the circle of acquaintances, Democratic Party workers, and volunteers I work with, I have heard nothing negative at all about her. Might just be the people we associate with.

It is my opinion that she is probably far more popular than many here are willing to believe...

It is my opinion that she will win the nomination (should she run...which she may not)

ANd it is my opinion, that if she is nominated, she will be the next President of the United States.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Thanks for the data...
would have liked to have participated in at least a few of these polls.

I really do hope with all my heart that they turn out to be dead wrong when it comes time for a lot of reasons, i do not want to go into here..

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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Well maybe it evens out...
I didn't get called either!! :-)
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #33
41. dammit, why won't they call us?
:hi:

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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
29. Why is the fact that "she's number one in the country" "manufactured"?
Because you say so? You mean because most DU'ers can't stand her it means the rest of the country feels exactly the same, so she couldn't possibly be number one?

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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I'm a Life time registered Democrat, but I've never been asked
by the party estabslihment, DNC or DCCC or by any other part of the Democratic Party apparatus, nor have I been asked by professional pollsters. Nor has anyone that I know of personally been asked, how they feel about HRC as president.

It would seem to me, in order to make such a claim, at the very least wide spread polling by the party apparatus should be conducted.

Given the way that these events have been unfolding, and given a very obvious and enourmous attempts to present this notion in the media as if it were a certain fact, and given that we have all seen this before, and given that we all know about the long tradition of front loading candidates, given all of these historical patterns of modus operendi combined with current machinations, one is compelled to draw certain conclusions, that is the stats are indeed manufactured.

pulled out from thin air...
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. Whenever the media mentions she's on top, they refer to polls
I've seen them mention Gallup polls and other polls when they refer to Hillary as the number one contender for the Democratic primaries. Now whether these polls are accurate or not is another question.

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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Here's a link...
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Thanks. I guess that puts to rest the "manufactured" argument.
Nice link!
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Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
34. It's every Republican's wet dream. They propose Hillary for 08...
and they watch as moderates are scared to vote right...and they laugh as Democrats are riven down the middle on the topic.

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TheVirginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
38. The fact that DU has endless threads about her proves
Its not manufactured. Face it, Hillary is a newsmaker. Why? Because she's the only first lady to be elected to the Senate. Because she wears her presidential ambitions on her sleeve. Because she's trying to be the first female president. Because she has a $50 million war chest. Because everything she does, and everything she's done since she was elected, has been about getting to the White House. Because every poll that includes her has her blowing out the competition.

The Hillary hype is not manufactured. The media only increases the hype, no doubt, but there are many, many legitimate reasons for her actions to recieve so much attention.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Love her or hate her, I don't think anyone can argue with what you said
And what you just said was very well said, I might add.

:toast:

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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #39
45. My dreams for a far better candidate gets shot down before
the race even begins.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 12:28 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. True enough..
her ambitions, her war chest and the political machine behind it all is something I certainly can't argue with.

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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 12:04 AM
Response to Original message
40. I don't know
but it goes to the fact that she's a very polarizing character. Hell look how she does on this forum alone? Just imagine how it is with the general public... While she has a base of followers, she has many detractors and her negatives are high.

She seems to have pretty much pissed off what should be her base to cater and pander to a community that will not vote for her regardless.



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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
42. Republicans don't dictate to me who I'll be voting for - Schumer-Feingold
even Boxer are more sensible as Dem Candidtaes -- Hillary jumps on the band-wagon AFTER others step up to the plate first, Like Murtha said; " they're afraid to commit or say anything that will effect their campaign plans...
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
44. By the end of 2007, the Hillary bandwagon will be overflowing. People will
begin to get used to the idea of a woman president. Voters will see Hill as a serious, hard working admministrator.

Hillary will take the Dem nomination and win the general.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #44
46. the very idea of it saddens me to no end, it will be an extension of this
administration's policies and that is not what i want to see for the future of our country...

may as well pack it up now, don't even bother going to the polls.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #46
48. "It will be an extension of this administration's policies". I doubt it.
There will be policies we both like and dislike. Give and take. With the Bushies, it's all take.

We will be headed in the right direction. Although, not at the speed some desire. Remember, America is still a work in progress. I feel it is my duty to help her get back into being America again.

The least any patriot can do is cast a proactive vote. :patriot:
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election_2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
47. Because the MSM whores are trying to coronate her....
The media is trying to handicap the Democratic primaries two years out so that it's simply "a bunch of emasculated Democratic men running to be Hillary's V.P."

Pundits find any excuse they can to give Hillary a front page news headline, even if it's just a puff piece about the status of her war chest for 2006 (and how that could be used for 2008).

It's so obvious the media wants Miss Inevitable to be the nominee, and their efforts to pimp her to the public is so non-transparent that it's disgusting.

Many Republicans want Hillary as the Dem nominee, but for different reasons. They want a common rallying point for the GOP base and the fundies to turn out to vote against en masse (not to mention using her as a common enemy to draw prominent conservative fundraisers to their rubber-chicken-dinners), and in that respect, Senator Clinton is just what the doctor ordered.
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