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patrioticliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:42 PM
Original message
Wes Clark Jr. says Hillary will win primary
On The Young Turks.

That no one else has a chance.
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electropop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't believe that.
Dems desperately want to run a Dem next time.
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Kierkegaard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I agree with you.
With half the grass roots that pushed the '04 election, HC would face a serious uphill climb.
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. Primary? The NY primary?? Did he say "primaries?"
She's got a guy running against her in the NY primary, if I'm not mistaken...
He didn't say she'd win the NOMINATION (as in presidential), did he??
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. you are right, he might have been asked about the Senate Primary
maybe he was asked about anyone running against Hillary for Senate. and that's how he responded. in which case i would agree with him.
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Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #36
54. No, he was talking about the national primaries (plural)
WesJr was responding to a question from a caller: "What's wrong with Wes Clark?"

WesJr thought the guy was insulting his dad (it sounded that way) and mumbled... more of a growl... something like, why don't you tell me? Then the caller said, "Why won't he be the nominee? He's great" or words to that effect. That's when WesJr went on a bit of a tirade that HRC has it wrapped up, that everyone else will be locked out by "the system," that it's all about money, about who you know and who owes favors, and support from corporations and the media. Said she "can't be stopped" and when Jill (one of the regular Young Turks) chimed in that she isn't electable, WesJr said that big-name and big-money Democrats are already being pressured to get on board, and even those who don't think she is either "will fold" eventually.
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NCarolinawoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Ugh! I hate politics and Wes Jr. must hate it even more!
I think he had something to do with encouraging his Dad to run the last time. Then he worked with the campaign and saw his Dad's character attacked from every which way, including by other Dems. Ugh! The smoke filled room full of money is rearing it's ugly head.

General Clark is too good for politics.

I wish we didn't need him to prevent this country from careening further down the slippery slope of disaster.
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lillilbigone Donating Member (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. didn't he say he was gonna win in 2004?
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11cents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Wes Clark Jr = Gen. Wesley Clark's son
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Junior not Senior. And he isn't supporting her, just stating his take
Sadly, I tend to agree with him, I don't know how she can be stopped.

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Moody Bluz Donating Member (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. I think she can be stopped...
but it will be costly. May even leave the eventual nominee with empty coffers and exposed. The best thing would be for her not to run at all, but I honestly think that she believes she can win and will not be talked out of it.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. There will only be one anti-Hillary
She will suck so much of the air out of the room, only one strong alternative can get any traction, the media isn't going to pay attention to a wide field with Hillary taking most of their time.

Lets hope he has enough money and enough support to make a stab at it.

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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. Uh, no, General
Common sense will prevail, and the rank-and-file will pick a winner, not a loser.
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Not the General, his son.
I have to disagree. A lot can happen in a couple of years.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Phew!
For a moment, I thought General Clark had lost his marbles.

:)
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
7. She'll have to show how well she performs in a series of debates.
Just like anyone else.

Dems are funny that way - they take debates more seriously.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
9. I have never thought she was charasmatic enough
Plus her negatives are too high.

She is smart enough. I would be happy to have her as my President. Anyway, I disagree with Wes Jr.
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
10. He has said before that it's about the money.
Not surprised he thinks this, just hope he's wrong.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
21. I'd bet HE hopes he's wrong. nt
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:52 PM
Response to Original message
11. Yeah well he's wrong.
Anyhow its a bit early to call the winner.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
12. Sounds about right to me.
:)
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. Will Wes Clark run to beat Hillary?
Or will he run just to split the anti-Hillary vote?

A fair question deserving of an answer from the Clark supporters!
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. If he runs...
He will run to win. He isn't Hillary's monkey and I'm sick of this stupid shit.

Fair?

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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Did you just suggest he was a stalking horse? You should be
ashamed. :spank:

Clark is involved in politics becuase he feels the country needs him as a leader, not aa a stalking horse for Hillary.
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brentspeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Clark can win
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 07:07 PM by brentspeak
Same with Mark Warner. But the American public won't go for another controversial, headline-grabbing president after suffering eight years of that with Bush -- even though HC would obviously be a million times better than Bush. Personality (low-key, non-controversial, that is) will win the White House for whoever this time around.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #13
40. Remember Indiana Green.....the media is already annointing
Warner....and later on they will annoint Bayh as the Anti-Hillaries.....(although in my mind they are more of the same calculated cautious politicians as she, and therefore are actually more Hillary.2 and Hillary.3)

Just watch the media...and note who they don't mention.....(That would be Wesley Clark).
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OzarkDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
19. Actually I'd like to see Dean run again
He's the only one who seems to have learned anything from 2004.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. He can't
He's chairman.
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
20. !
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
22. Actually I think his dad is going to win
I hope Hillary is smart enough to stay in the senate.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
23. Hillary ain't going to do well in Iowa or New Hampshire
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 08:21 PM by zulchzulu
It will be pretty obvious that Iowans don't want to throw away their vote on someone who can only mobilize the Right Wing in full force to vote. Same with New Hampshire...

it sounds like Wes is hanging out too much at Fox.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. It sounds like
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 08:53 PM by incapsulated
You didn't read. This is Wes JUNIOR. In addition, he didn't say he was supporting her.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. Oh...
Sorry...I thought it was a bit odd.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. That's the key point
If you had six or eight primaries on the same opening day, spread out and more or less equally contested, then Hillary is the legitimate frontrunner and the money makes a difference. But Iowa and New Hampshire are a unique breed. They will handicap Hillary as not the best general election choice and momentum radically changes at that point. Inevitability is ancient history.
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Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #31
65. But we're not starting with just Iowa and NH anymore
If the DNC plan goes thru, there will be a couple caucuses in the 10 days or so between the two (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060311/ap_on_el_pr/primary... ). The more states smashed together, the more than money and name recognition counts. :(

I also wouldn't count on NH being much of a place to handicap Clinton. Seems to me that NE is where she's most popular. I could be wrong about that. I agree with you about Iowa.

I will say this, tho. A lot of the NH folks who voted in the Dem primaries in 2004 will be voting in the Repub primary in 2008, especially if they can vote for McCain or Giuliani. So it may give progressives a bigger voice on our side, and if Clinton sticks to her centrism (as I think she must if she cares about the GE at all), that should hurt her there.
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Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Thanks, I posted before that happened
I heard speculation months ago, but your link from Saturday is the first I've seen of the verification. That does change the dynamic somewhat, depending on which states are added before New Hampshire. Makes Iowa even more critical, IMO, since the residue will be tested in several states in short order, not just New Hampshire.
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NCarolinawoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
26. Wes Clark JUNIOR has always been outspoken; but I wish he hadn't said it.
It's way too early, and too many people on THIS thread think that was Wes Clark SENIOR speaking. Dad and son, however, have always been very close; and I don't have to go to the Young Turk site to know that Wes Junior is NOT supporting Hillary. The Clark family is extremely close.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
27. LOL
How funny. Not if John Kerry and/or Russ Feingold run she won't.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Or Al Gore.
Please, dog, make Al Gore run.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
32. What's The Young Turks? Only people I hear saying this are Republicans
who are trying to create a sense of inevitability around an HRC nomination because they know she's divisive and beatable.

I'd love to see WCK2.0's original quote so I can get a sense of why he's saying this.
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
34. Remember when everyone said that Howard Dean was a shoe-in for '04?
Let's wait until some votes happen
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #34
53. He WAS
until "they" realized it could happen; that's when it got tricky.

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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
35. is there a transcript or something of this ?
i would like to see how or why he said this. maybe he was joking. maybe someone asked him about her and he responded with a laugh . i don't know.

i would liket o see more though.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. He's extremely cynical
About the whole process and I don't blame him, I'm the same way. But he's seen it from the inside through his father's run and that has made him even more angry and cynical. I think the statement should be taken in that light.

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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #37
47. Truer words were never spoken...
The process has become so flawed and so balled up, how could he (WE) not be?

He's a hell of a guy. The whole family is aces!

TC
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Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #35
50. Supposedly you can podcast the audio at...
the Young Turks' website at http://www.theyoungturks.com/modules/sections/index.php... but I don't see last night's show there yet.

I heard most of what WesJr said. Incap is right that he was being very cynical about the money, the favors owed, the long-time relationships within party factions, and the pressure/eagerness to get behind whoever is perceived to be the inevitable winner. Mostly the money. He pointed out that an Edwards or Warner has many millions of their own to use, which at least gives them a start.

He also said he honestly didn't know whether his dad will run, but that he (Jr) thinks he (Sr) would like to because he's given so much of his life to the country and just hates seeing it go to shit like it is now, so he will continue to work on 2006 and, if he doesn't run, will help whoever is the nominee.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
38. Wes Clark Jr sounds like a very intelligent...
And perceptive person!!!
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 02:57 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. No...he just learned via his father's campaign how ruthless,
calculative and manipulative the whole political process is. He understands that's democracy is nothing more than one big sham!

It's about money and buzz....money creates buzz, and buzz generates money....It's not about issues, not about a message, not about anything but smoking mirrors, and the imfamous horserace...

It's all just one big bankrupt game!

I understand it too....and just like in years passed, the media will lead enough of us by the nose off the cliff!

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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #38
41. Wes, Jr. is intelligent, for sure....
and so, after seeing the inner-workings of this assinine Party, is probably drawing a conclusion based on its past performance AS WELL AS having seen what he saw as his father ran the last time. His remarks were probably made with the same cynicism and jaded disappointment with which ALL OF US WHO KNOW HOW THIS PARTY WORKS have come to have on the subject. I know I DREAD a Hillary run. She will lose. And, if by some miracle she doesn't, she is in no way progressive enough in her thinking or her affiliations to guarantee the U-TURN this Party and this country so badly needs to move away from and undo the Bush damage to this country, the Constitution and the American people. I don't trust her. I don't trust the DLC. I don't this Party to do the right thing or make the right choice. I am not optomistic. Not even a little bit.

TC
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. I tell you what I dread...
Another Nominee who lays down the first time the Republican slime machine goes after them. I want someone who has been through these wars and comes out the other side a winner. It is inconceivable that Hillary Clinton would have let the Swift Boat type attacks go by without a fight.

She will not lose, she will be the nominee, and the odds are better than even she will be the next President.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 09:14 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. I'll say this for you
Edited on Sat Mar-11-06 09:15 AM by Jim4Wes
You are one optimistic Democrat.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Actually...
I'm done underestimating the Clinton's. On more than one occasion I gave up on them thinking they could not possibly win...and they have proven me wrong every time....I am convinced Hillary is the only one in the race with the proven ability to go toe to toe with the Republicans and come out on top.
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #46
64. AMEN!!! Hillary can kick-ass!!!!
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Aaaargh Donating Member (203 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
42. Newly Discovered Wesclarkjuniorus Predictions for 2008!
Sounds like maybe he doesn't want his old man to run again.

But beyond that, tell me: why should I care what this guy thinks?

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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
44. Without a link or transcript, I'll assume this is not true. nt
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #44
48. google The Young Turks
their show is on sirius and free on the web. You might have to buy a transcript. You can assume anything you want but quite a few of us were tuned in when wesjr said HRC has it locked up.
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gulliver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. It's not personal. Political tips are no better than stock tips ...
... on message boards. They mean next to nothing. Wes Junior may have said what the OP and you are saying he said. Or he may have said it as a joke. It's just not possible to tell. It's a matter of credibility. Even highly credible sources like HuffPo, DailyKos, or TPM post links. Joe OP, no matter who they are, needs to also.

I'm not only assuming this is untrue, but recommending that anyone who wants to keep a clear head and rely on reliable information do the same. If you heard it directly, then you can believe. But I can't without a link, and I think it is wrong for anyone else to do so.
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
51. Hillary has no better chance against Repubs than Dean did post IOWA
Edited on Sat Mar-11-06 05:09 PM by Sensitivity
Whether for good reason or not, her negatives in public opinion are too
high and there is no overwhelming personal history of leadership that
could be used to change perceptions.

Hope Party does some hard thinking before the Primaries
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election_2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. It will have to look past the pro-Hillary media clutter first.....
Let's hope national/state/local Democrats don't collectively drop the ball.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
55. Not sure what General Clark is talking about.
I'm calling him, John Edwards, Al Gore, and maybe Gov. Warner and Sen. Feingold to beat the crap out of Senator Clinton in the 2008 primaries.

Beginning in Iowa, these four or so candidates will whittle away at Sen. Clinton's presumed lead until she is just one more in the pack.

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NCarolinawoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #55
57. OLd Crusoe, this is General Clark's son speaking.
Read #54. I like your idea of having others whittle away at Hillary and her money-bags.
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saltpoint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #57
58. Ok, it is. I should read more carefully.
I did go up and check entry 54 and that helped, too. I've got the context now.

Sorry for the confused post on my part, and many thanks.
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haypops Donating Member (81 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
59. Hillary would make a better president than candidate
I think that getting this possibility/probability out in the open may wake up some of us up. Lots of work to be done.
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mikehiggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
60. She won't run
In a sense her role in the 2008 election is over already. Given a choice between her and John McCain, who do you think the majority of voters are going to support? For all that we know that JM is a low life snake in the grass who'll let his family be dragged through the mud and then kiss up to the guy who did the dragging, there are still a lot of people who'd support a McKain candidacy out of ignorance or plain denial. Nominating Hillary against someone like that would make the Kerry nomination seem like the height of political savvy.

Hillary does NOT want to run and lose and, IMHO, she among all of them will not be blinded by advisors (even Bill) into giving up her Senate seat, where she may soon end up heading some vital committee, for the chance to sit on the sidelines as a footnote to history.

Just my opinion, of course.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
61. Yeah, and Lieberman led in the last primary.
Joementum (man, I STILL can't believe I heard the schmuck say that with my own ears!) didn't carry much.

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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
62. Well I hope he is wrong and if it does come to pass it will be because
the Clinton's forced her on everyone.
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jen4clark Donating Member (812 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-12-06 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
63. Unfortunately he's right about
the insider, money part. Corporate America runs the show and it IS a show. Now that they've got a lock (or so they think) on counting the votes, they can install whichever Corporate Buddy they want and play it up to look like "we the people" actually have a say. Until and unless enough people get involved to take back our country, I'm afraid nothing's going to change.

I plan on staying involved and fighting the corrupt power-mongers as long as I'm able. I, like many others, wonder just how bad things have to get before more people join our fight.
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