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Anyone who doubts Bill Clinton's presidency, please take a look at this

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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:33 AM
Original message
Anyone who doubts Bill Clinton's presidency, please take a look at this
fine list of his accomplishments. Yes, he deserves some criticism. They all do, but look at the overall picture.

(Warning to lurking freepers: You do NOT want to look at this list. I know how you love to brag about the much overrated Ronald Reagan, and seeing firsthand the accomplishments of someone who put him to shame just might ruin your Friday. You wanna see another list like this in the future? Well then vote for a Democrat next time.)

http://clinton5.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/eightyears-...
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meegbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. But he lied about a blowjob ...
so that nullifies everything. :sarcasm:
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smtpgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
103. so that constitutes nullification, I think not
I'll bet that * receives blow jobs too, and not by women
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Montauk6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
105. And even though he did not murder Vince Foster or millions of other people
in Arkansas nor did he host cocaine/sex parties at the White House, the Freepers BELIEVE it, and therefore, that supersedes any REAL atrocity caused by the current administration.
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bedpanartist Donating Member (915 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
2. My Problem with Bill and the Dems
is that they wholeheartedly or either cowardly participate in the totalitarian war on drugs, making them totalitarians. Sorry, but participation = guilt.
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johncoby2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. What an ignorant statement.
Or is it stupid?
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jschurchin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Question for you bedpanartist.......
Do you remember which President started that unbelievable waste of time and money?

Here is a hint: Tricky
One More: Repug
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bedpanartist Donating Member (915 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
26. who cares who started it
the entire political system has been going along with it and promoting it to the detriment of us all. They're ALL guilty.
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motocicleta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
61. Don't let 'em rile ya, bpa
Some people around here have severe clinton worship. I don't like the guy, either.

The pols are almost all guilty (excepting a few like Wellstone, Boxer, Feingold, DeFazio, etc), not just for the drug war but clinton most of all for globalization, the telecommunications act, and generalized corporate asskissing.

Unfortunately, no amount of pissing and moaning is gonna change those evils. The only thing that will is good old economics. No one can escape the heavy hand of market forces, no matter what ideology they believe in. To me that means: a bunch of nincompoops will be worshipping globalization until we are all unable to pay for all basic services on our third world salaries.

And don't talk to me about political expediency. I'd rather have generations of repuke leadership than democratic leaders doing the same stupid economic shit that the repukes want. That way at least I won't feel conflicted.

Plus, the farther we tilt to the right, the farther left the backlash will be. I can't wait.
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bedpanartist Donating Member (915 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #61
83. I get a kick out of pissing folks like that off
it confirms I'm doing the right thing - God's work.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #61
92. That's got to be one of the silliest things I've ever heard.
"Plus, the farther we tilt to the right, the farther left the backlash will be. I can't wait."

I suppose if we give up entirely and have all Democratic politicians commit suicide immediately, it'll mean even MORE power magically handed to us at some nebulous future point.
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motocicleta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #92
96. No
Don't be silly. Read Wealth and Democracy, think long and hard about the french revolution, the bolsheviks, marxists the world over, then get back to me. And no, I do not think those are examples we should follow. It is one thing to recognize the historical precedent, and another to think a bloody left-wing revolution is a good idea. And neither of those things includes a belief in magic, as you seem to be suggesting.

PS In case the above doesn't spell it out quite clearly enough - the "I can't wait"? That's sarcasm.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
107. Lest we forget Saint Ronnie did his part too !
Put marijuana in the same category of drugs under federal law as coke and heroin.
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Libby2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
23. Interesting username (nt)
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
64. Actually I've got an issue with that too...
But it's still better than these clowns.

Welcome to DU.
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Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
102. You're just as guilty as you deem Clinton.
Unfortunately, we have a two-party-race system.

What are you doing to change it?
Degrading a Dem.
Thereby putting a Repub on a higher rung?
Putting us all further from a solution?

You're MORE guilty than Clinton.
And, more so than the Dems in general.
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johncoby2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:41 AM
Response to Original message
4. Bush would have done the same, but 911 changed everything.
Maybe some freeper would like to list the good things that W has done. Hum.....maybe WE should list the good things he has done. And please no "we are free" "we are safe" crap.

I will start:
1)

OK. I give up. Someone help me.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Here ya go. Here are Bush's list of accomplishments:
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #5
48. Hey, that's not fair. I heard he finished reading a book.
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NightHawk63 Donating Member (447 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #5
106. According to Charlie Rangel...
...he forever put to rest that myth of white supremacy.
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
11. A friend and I were trying to think of anything positive that has
come of his "reign" yesterday and couldn't come up with anything either. It seems that everything he touches turns to sh**. I guess his list of accomplishments has been filed away along with all that good news from Iraq.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. LOL, Granny! "Everything Bush touches "turns to sh**."
Now that is the Anti-Midas Touch if ever there was one!

:toast:
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MadMaddie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #11
35. Hey Ark Granny I can tell you one thing that he has done successfully..
He has validated why there is a "seperation of church and state" and why we have to fight this fight to make sure the two never get joined at the hip again...

When the Dems get back in power this is one of the things they will have to dissect from the government...Faith Based Initives....

:popcorn:
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #35
82. This is absolutely true. I guess you'd have to call that a
back-handed accomplishment. I'm sure it was not what he intended.

:eyes:
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #11
58. The No-Call List. nt
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Arkansas Granny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #58
84. Now there is something he can brag about.
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bluethruandthru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #4
14. Well, according to the freepers...all that means nothing
because Bill let Osama go! That means 911 is Bills fault and, as we all know, 911 changed everything! :sarcasm:
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Shadoobie Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #14
36. If Bill let Osama get away...
If Bill let Osama get away and...
Osama caused 9-11 and...
9-11 changed everything...
and all the changes has made * a great President then...

Clinton is responsible for making * such a great President.

Such logic should make sense to a Freeper.

Greg
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NativeTexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #4
42. The ONLY good thing about Dubya is..........
........LESS THAN THREE YEARS!!!
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MikeNY Donating Member (242 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
7. Why is he friends with Old Man Bush???
Thats such a digrace... people think Clinton was some great liberal president because after 8 years of Reagan and 4 years of old man Bush a non-extremist conservative candidate looks like a democrat
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Nobody's perfect n/t
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MikeNY Donating Member (242 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Re:
He was great because he wasn't absolutely nuts like everyone we've had for the last 20 years.. and he knew how to balance a budget for a year or two.. (thank god). The economic prosperity was because we weren't at war with someone (cold war or otherwise) for the first time in who knows how many years. Since World War 2 the only thing that has kept this economy going is war and conflict.. going without a war for 10 years.. (without inventing a new enemy for ourselves to fight) now that would be something to see.
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. I've never had bad feeling about the friendship
Of course I don't buy into a lot of tinfoil stuff about him either.
I don't find it strange for the following reasons:
It seems to me that ex-Presidents have a bond that no one else does.
Clinton just loves to charm and conquer.
GHWB is the father Clinton never had, and Bill is the smart son GHWB never had.
Some people form friendships based on things other than politics.
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johncoby2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. God forbid a Democrat and Republican can join together for good of man
Good God almighty! This is a GOOD thing. If only our Congress could do the same, maybe we could move in the right direction for a change.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. Spot on, John. Hanging around occasionally with Old Pukeface
in an effort to promote good will doesn't take anything away from Clinton's accomplishments.
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. In fact, the comparison just makes Old Pukeface look worse....
And--to Bush the Smarter--it just makes his son look worse.

And the Big Dog just keeps smiling.
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. That's what I have concluded about these two...
"GHWB is the father Clinton never had, and Bill is the smart son GHWB never had." Once you make friends with Clinton, you'll want to hold onto it. Besides, I can't imagine all the flack Barbara is giving George about that relationship.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. "GHWB is the father Clinton never had, & Bill is the smart son GHWB never
had".

Oh, that is so good!

:toast:
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madmunchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #13
33. I like the tinfoil hats thinking better myself
I believe that they are paving the way for Hillary to be back in the WH and Bill to head the UN. Go ahead and shoot me.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #33
57. If that comes to pass....
would it be such a bad thing by comparison to what we have now? I'm by no means a HIllary fan, just asking.
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madmunchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #33
85. I don't think that it is necessarily a bad thing......or maybe it is
If the Clintons are actually in cahoots with the Bushbots, then THAT is the worst news. That means that we really don't have any say in anything. A two party system is just a facade then. Not to say that Hillary isn't qualified enough to do a good job in the WH and not to say that Bill isn't qualified to be head of the UN, just that we are all fucked if they (Bushbot and Clintons)are working together.
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motocicleta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #85
98. I'm not sure what you could be saying here
because we've all seen them working together. If you mean, working together to destroy the world, then no, they're not working together. Then again, the Bushbots aren't working together to destroy the world. They're working to own the world. Nothing less, nothing more. And in that light, yes, I think the Clintons and the majority of the Democrats in Congress are working together with the Bushbots.

So yes, we are fucked.
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #13
46. Nice. Bush's family business is politics
Of course he wants a son in the same field that he can be proud of. GHWB would probably have adopted Bill thirty years ago if he knew how his dynasty was going to end up.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #13
50. Interesting analysis. Hmmm
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
20. Maybe for the same reason Congress is the WH lap dog
Maybe he got an offer he couldn't refuse.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
27. How petty is that...
Because he is friends with someone of the opposite party that makes him a disgrace...

Ridiculuous...

Was John Adams lame because he rekindled his friendship with Thomas Jefferson. Was Jimmy Carter lame for becoming close with Gerald Ford? Was Tip O'Neill lame for being friends with Ronald Reagan?
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #7
45. Oh, come on.
There's only about three people in the world that understands what it's like being president. Bush I, Clinton, Carter. They've got plenty in common, and I bet George is a pretty gracious host: he ran despicable campaigns, but he's no W.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
49. Because he's a gracious man who can recognize common
humanity even in his political enemies. We'd be a lot better off if more Republicans could find it in their hearts to befriend Democrats.
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
9. Ooh, here's one that hurts: Paid off $360 billion of the national debt
Paid off $360 billion of the national debt
Between 1998-2000, the national debt was reduced by $363 billion the largest three-year debt pay-down in American history. We are now on track to pay off the entire debt by 2009.
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huskerlaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
63. That one
damn near made me cry. $8 Trillion, anybody? Fuck.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
10. He was a DINO DLC mutherfucker surely he didn't do well.
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johncoby2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. you forgot the sarcasm.
:sarcasm:

At least I hope you did, otherwise you might want to elaborate (sp?) on it. If you can.
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. I didn't forget it but I was surely being sarcastic. I never put the
:sarcasm: in be cause I want people to be able to consider it and think about it without me having to tell them.

I think it makes people have to own up to the bullshit they say in other threads. People do this DLC/DINO thing and don't know that
they are setting us back. I don't know how we can win if we are not unified.
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dubyaD40web Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
21. K & R!
Bookmark this to fight the freepers.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
28. Sorry, but the overall picture isn't pretty either
NAFTA opened the outsourcing floodgates, and enabled the tech boom that was buoying up the economy to go overseas. Welfare "reform" ripped away the social safety net, just in time for a downturn in the economy. Don't ask, don't tell was a horrible position to take, one that didn't take of the problem and leaving our gay brothers and sisters exposed more than ever in the military. Most of the GLBT folks that I know in the military, and also those interviewed in the press have stated that DADT is worse than what came before. Rather than acting with the courage that propelled Truman to integrate the troops after WWII, Clinton wussed out, and thus we got DADT.

The '96 Telecom Act opened the floodgates of media merger, thus silencing our public voice when it was most needed. Folded on UHC, instead letting his wife muddy the water and make the whole issue go away. And under Clinton over 400,000 innocent Iraqis were killed, either due to sanctions or the thrice weekly bombing runs.

And sadly, despite all of the hype about Clinton's economic "miracle", the gap between the rich and the rest of us opened to a record breaking chasm, and the percentage of wealth in this country was concentrated into a record breaking low number of hands.

Was Clinton better than Bush, sure, but that isn't saying much. In many, many ways Clinton's administration set us up for many of the abuses that we've suffered under Bush. Particularly the media merger mania and welfare "reform" severely harmed us. No, Clinton was no Bush, but in all the ways that mattered, he wasn't a true liberal or Democrat either. He was a greedy opportunist, doing favors for those that paid him well, and his only thing that kept his ass out of real trouble was that he was an extremely charismatic man.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Okaaaaayyyy...........
"He was a greedy opportunist, doing favors for those that paid him well, and his only thing that kept his ass out of real trouble was that he was an extremely charismatic man."

That line says it all about the nature of your post. I'll just agree to disagree with you on that because beauty is in the eye of the beholder and it can be spun to look any which way we want it, considering which angle we're coming from.

Bill Clinton's accomplishments aren't spin, though. Just fact:

Longest economic expansion in American history

More than 22 million new jobs

Highest homeownership in American history

Lowest unemployment in 30 years

Raised education standards, increased school choice, and doubled education and training investment

Largest expansion of college opportunity since the GI Bill

Connected 95 percent of schools to the Internet

Lowest crime rate in 26 years

100,000 more police for our streets

Enacted most sweeping gun safety legislation in a generation

Family and Medical Leave Act for 20 million Americans

Smallest welfare rolls in 32 years

Higher incomes at all levels

Lowest poverty rate in 20 years

Lowest teen birth rate in 60 years

Lowest infant mortality rate in American history

Deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union

Protected millions of acres of American land

Paid off $360 billion of the national debt

Converted the largest budget deficit in American history to the largest surplus

Lowest government spending in three decades

Lowest federal income tax burden in 35 years

More families own stock than ever before

Most diverse cabinet in American history


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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Yeah, keep repeating that spin
"Longest economic expansion in American history" Umm, I think you had better go read your history friend. Largest economic expansion was in the post WWII years, from 1945-1965.

"More than 22 million new jobs" Yeah, but how good was the pay on those jobs? Since NAFTA outsourced a lot of the well paying manufacturing jobs, many people were forced to take much lower paying McJobs.

"Highest homeownership in American history" True, but not due to so much as to Clinton's policies, but more due to bank and lending institutions coming up with new ways like ARMs and no deposit loans tempting gullible people into the housing market. Also, a good part of the market was buoyed up by the investment class, which in turn has forced housing prices up to unobtainable levels in many parts of the country, thus precipitating this housing bubble which we are currently balanced on, and which is about to pop any day now.

I could go on and on with this list, but I've got other things to do. I would suggest that you go read some Howard Zinn though, and find out just how "good" Clinton was for this country. Oh, and rather than pumping out the spin and propaganda, could you at least respond to the points I mentioned in my previous posts. That you aren't addressing these valid and verifiable criticisms is telling. What, you have no defense for your Great God Clinton?
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #30
52. You missed FOUR recessions 1949-1965.
http://www.econlib.org/LIBRARY/Enc/Recessions.html

Furthermore, homeownership did increase on low interest rates...low interest rates made available, in part, by prudent fiscal policy. But of course, one has to blame the bursting of the housing bubble that is going to happen in the future on the fact that people got rich in the Clinton years.

It's much the same as the republicans do. Not being able to contradict the very fact of eight years of peace and prosperity, it's got to be ignored, or minimized with false comparisons, or attributed to someone else, like Reagan. You're not a democrat and therefore like republicans have no vested interest in celebrating Clinton, but you know, the truth is still the truth. Eight years of peace and prosperity are eight years of peace and prosperity.

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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #52
69. LOL funny, funny
I suggest that you go read about banking policy during the '90s. It is a direct result of Clinton banking policy and loosening of restrictions that ARMs etc. came about. Do you deny that the housing bubble started under Clinton? Then you deny reality.

Do you deny that the gap between the rich and the rest of us, in terms of wealth, increased to a record breaking chasm? Do you deny that our nation's wealth became concentrated into a record shattering fewer amount of hands? Please :eyes:

As far as peace goes, yeah, right, ask the families of dead Iraqis how peaceful the '90s were, especially during those thrice weekly bombing runs done as a matter of policy. Ask those million people who died in one weekend in Rwanda how peaceful things were, especially since Clinton refused to do a damn thing to help them.

And as far as prosperity goes, how come the numbers of working poor in this country rose to new highs under Clinton? Could it be because all of those well paying manufacturing jobs, followed by those well paying tech jobs all got outsourced, and were replaced with low paying McJobs?

Your right, I'm not a Democrat any longer, nor am I a Republican. I'm an independent who has become disgusted with this two party/same corporate master system of government. Clinton had charm and personality, but he governed as his corporate masters told him to, and many of his policies were and continue to be harmful to average Americans. As I said before, he was better than Bush, but really, that's not saying much.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #69
71. He ran and won as a centrist
He did what he promised to do, what he was elected to do. Get the hell over it.

You are nothing but a Clinton basher.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. LOL, yeah that's right, I'm a Clinton basher
That's why I voted for the man twice.

Sorry, I just like to deal in the reality based world, where politicians aren't great gods to be fondly worshipped, but human beings complete with greed, avarice and a lust for power. Get over it.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. So you voted for it, now you want to complain.
:shrug:

One thing about Clinton, he told you exactly what he was going to do when he campaigned, also, he brought people from different viewpoints in to work out policy. What more did you want? I am not worshipping Clinton, I am asking you what did you think was going to happen when you elected him?
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. Hey, it's my perogative to complain
And frankly, the only reason that I voted for Clinton was because I was buying into the notion that he would be better than his Republican opponent. Perhaps he was, perhaps he wasn't :shrug:

But to have the man worshipped like a god, as some around here do is simply too much. Quite frankly, he left me feeling a sense of betrayal and disgust. Sure, I realized that he would be probably be governing from the center, but instead he was governing from the right, and legislating for the corporations. I was hoping for some sort of protective buffer between the corporate world and the rest of us, but nooooo, not with Bill. He rolled the red carpet out for the corporations, and we've been paying the price for that largesse ever since.
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #69
75. You missed four recessions. YOU don't get to "lol" on that one.
Let's just remember that one.

Thanks, I'm familiar with new mortgage products. But it was easy money, in the form of low rates, that made home buying cheaper in the most part...record low interest rates, as a matter of fact. And as Alan Greenspan noted at teh time, prudent fiscal policies allowed him to lower interest rates. Clinton's prudent fiscal policies, you know, the ones that nobody is allowed to talk about.

And yes, I do deny the housing bubble started under Clinton. In fact, it's tough enough to say there is a housing "bubble" now. The bubble is actually localized to portions of the coasts and Florida, and is only a concern because the rest of the economy is mismanaged. What you are obviously confusing is the concept of high homeownership, a record under Clinton, with a bubble, which makes arguing against the Clinton record easy, because it turns something good into the seeds of something bad.

And of course, Clinton gets blamed for Saddam too now. He doesn't invade, and gets blamed for dead Iraqis. He doesn't send troops to Rwanda, and those are dead on his head too. You don't argue that Clinton brought peace. You argue he brought too much. Because you're pretty much unwilling to give the guy a fair shake.
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Chi Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #30
56. According to the National Bureau of Economic Research......
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 11:57 AM by Chi
According to the National Bureau of Economic Research, the longest economic expansions in U.S. history are:

March 1991 -- March 2001: 120 months
February 1961 -- December 1969: 106 months
November 1982 -- July 1990: 92 months

http://mediamatters.org/items/200406090005

http://www.nber.org/cycles/cyclesmain.html

Edit to add -- BTW, whats the source of your (mis)information?


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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #56
59. Thank you, but I'll stick with the US Dept of State
<http://economics.about.com/od/useconomichistory/a/post_... >

Despite it's claim that it is a non-partisan entity, NBER is anything but. Just go look at their BofD and who serves on it.
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Chi Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #59
66. I don't see that info in your link....
I'm sure it's me though, could you point it out please.

And here's the rest of the document if needed....
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/oecon/chap3.htm
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. Apparently you found it just fine without my help
But just in case you need redundancy, here<http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/histryotln/postwa... >

Fifteen plus years of economic growth. Pardon my math, but that is a lot longer than the period from '91-'01. :shrug:
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Chi Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #67
76. Don't need redundancy, just a graf that says it was uninterrupted growth
You did question someone's knowledge of history about this,
the least you can do is come up with a legitimate source.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. So now you want a picture
And you think that the US State Dept. isn't a legit source. Forget it, apparently you are inclined to listen to reason, or consider anybody's opinion but your own. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Oh, by the by, it's spelled "graph", not "graf"
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Chi Donating Member (921 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #78
79. I wouldn't want to stay on point if I were you, either.
"In 1959 the American economy continued to recover from the recession of late 1957 and early 1958. In the first half of the year the rate of recovery appeared to be normal, compared with the two preceding recoveries of the postwar years. In the last half of 1959, however, the general trend of..."

http://encarta.msn.com/related_701610399_9.11.117/1959_...
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #29
39. John Adams said it best

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.

John Adams
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #29
40. You know they've lost it...
When they have to resort to repeating Freeper talking points to make ther case!!!
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #40
89. No kidding. The guy even admits he's not a Democrat so why bother
when you know he's only gonna parrot rightwing talking points when it comes to Clinton. His best argument is that we shouldn't treat Clinton like God. Well who the heck said anythign about treating him like God? We sure didn't. We're just not gonna put up with seeing Clinton treated like dirt.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #28
31. "Clinton set us up..."
I disagree, I think it was Cart. no Johns. no I mean it was Roosevelt that set us up. Yeah thats it.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #31
55. It was Wilson and you damned well know it!
:evilgrin:
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #28
54. Here's the kicker though...
Clinton was never shy about being a centrist. So if you want to slam him on not being a true liberal that's disingenuous.

No administration is perfect, but I'd sure as hell take Clinton's imperfections over Bush's utter ineptitude.

As for the set up I think I'd look more closely at PNAC, Newt Gingrich and the rabid religious right for that.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #54
60. I never said that Bush was better than Clinton
Quite the opposite in fact, if you will read my previous posts. However that doesn't mean that Clinton was the great god that many people around here try to set him up as. Yes, he was charismatic and personable, but his policies and decisions were very, very pro-corporate, and yes, things like the '96 Telecom Act, NAFTA and many others did indeed set us up for the pain we're feeling now.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:03 PM
Response to Reply #60
86. I know you didn't. I was referring to your "true liberal" comment.
It wouldn't apply because Clinton never described himself that way.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #60
93. Oh for crise sake no one is referring to Clinton as Godlike so enough
with that useless worn out rhetoric. No one thinks he's perfect, but he sure isn't anything close to the way you'd like to paint him, not by a long shot. The only person who you'd be satisfied with is God herself.

Now I suggest you stop suggesting that we read all your favorite books. What, is this school or something?
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
32. He was a great president -
I never tire of looking back just a short time ago and thinking about just how much has changed.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #32
73. ditto
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
34. I don't doubt Clinton's presidency - I credit it with setting up Bush's
Presidency.

WAR! Drop Bombs! Kosovo, Iraq weekly bombings...

1,000,000 Iraqis dead as a result of US/UN Sanctions -- other nations pulled out, the US could've too. Don't try to blame Saddam for building $100 million mansions -- a $100 million mansion would've provided $4 of food for each of 25,000,000 Iraqi's.

Bill campaigned on "opportunity, personal responsibility, and community" and then promptly went about forgetting all three.

Life was *much* *much* *much* better here for most people -- but I've had it with lists that grade president's based on American self-absorbed interests.

Also: You didn't approach the long-term devastating effects of NAFTA on our jobs and economy.

TRUTH IS ALL.
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LiberalEsto Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
37. Required government buildings to be energy efficient
Under his leadership the Energy Star program was developed so Americans could base purchases on whether products such as air conditioners were energy efficient.

Under his leadership all branches of governmentincluding the military were assigned timetables for sharply reducing energy costs. This saved millions of dollars that the B*sh misadministration later managed to piss away on lie-based wars.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
38. He had to play nice w/ the military industrial complex
though (re kosovo, desert fox), as well as the multinational corporations & economic hitmen. (re nafta, welfare reform).

I personally think he's a true progressive at heart, and he "caved" on these issues to avoid being assassinated a la jfk/rfk/mlk/wellstone.

He walked a very fine line and did very well, and of course was impeached for it anyway.
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
41. Ah, the good old days...
I would trade what we have now for them in a second! And Clinton could have all the BJ's he wants - he'd just have to work out an arrangement with Hillary! :rofl:
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NativeTexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
43. This Clintonian Democrat is glad someone has........
.......finally posted something like this; and very proud of the accomplishments of the LAST LEGITIMATE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!!
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #43
94. My pleasure
and I'm glad some poeple appreciate just how relatively good we had it under Clinton. Thanks for your post.
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NativeTexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #94
104. They just need to compare it to ANYTHING else they want to look at!!
And tell me WHAT WAS EVEN CLOSE.
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windbreeze Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
44. Instead of arguing among ourselves as to what "kind" of prez
Clinton was.....wouldn't searching out, and reading exec orders he issued...tell the story?
windbreeze
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #44
51. Yep, but most people are too lazy.
For what it's worth, that list leaves out some things. The Clinton administration did good work with respect to reducing land mines too.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
47. I just finished listening to his autobiography, "My Life."
I assume it was an abridged version, but I really enjoyed hearing him tell it in his own voice. I realize it was a vehicle for tooting his own horn and coming to terms with his own demons but I thought it was very well done. I had forgotten a lot of what the Clinton administration had accomplished.

Remember what Harry Truman said, "If you want to live like a Republican, vote for a Democrat."
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Minnesota Libra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
53. BUT,BUT he lied about getting a blow job, nothing......,..
....before or after that matters.
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phusion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
62. As Malloy would say...
Clinton was the best Republican president ever!
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #62
90. and Malloy, of course, would be wrong
Clinton was no Republican.

But Malloy ain't no Democrat, so it doesn't surprise me when he says that.
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motocicleta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #90
97. what is Malloy then?
I ask with all seriousness, because whatever he is I may be. It seems if you step out of line around here you may not be a Democrat, which I always believed I was. Perhaps some of you smartypants could tell me what I may actually be.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #97
100. "smartypants." LOL!
Malloy said he wasn't Democrat anymore. If you want to be what he is, be my guest.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
65. A mixed bag. Much good, some half truths, and some weasels.
I've always maintained that he was a vast improvement over the previous six (I could argue either way on Carter), it's just that when examining the details that things get sketchy.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
68. Considering he had a Republican Congress who conducted
a Clinton Inquisition for his last 6 years, I'd say his accomplishments were incredible. Imagine what he could have done with a Democratic majority and a press as partisan as Bush has now? The results would be mind boggling.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
70. I miss that time
Very nice site and impressive resume. He should be proud.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
74. People should throw this back to Sean Hannity
* Most diverse cabinet in American history
The President has appointed more African Americans, women and Hispanics to the Cabinet than any other President in history. He appointed the first female Attorney General, the first female Secretary of State and the first Asian American cabinet secretary ever.

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BigBearJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
81. Thanks for this list. Sent it out to my "Puke" list (rubbing nose in it)
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
87. Yeah, but compared to the Perfect Liberal Democratic President
Who never does anything wrong, never makes a mistake or goes back on a promise and only exists in Fantasyworld.... Clinton sucked.

Who the fuck are people comparing Clinton to, and I mean Democratic Presidents, not Bush and Nixon? FDR? Jesus. Clinton was the first Democratic nominee I voted for who won, and he is far and away the best president I've ever known, and the way things are going, that status my last the rest of my days. I have had, christ knows, plenty of problems with Clinton, the main being NAFTA, but after 12 fucking years of Reagan and Bush, I'm not going to regret my vote, thats for damn sure.



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RFKHumphreyObama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
88. Clinton allowed me to spend my formative years in an environment
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 06:22 PM by socialdemocrat1981
of peace, prosperity and hope for the future. I thank him for that. It was easy to be idealistic and to reach for the stars during the Clinton Administration and it is a feeling that I wish the generation growing up today under a moronic and idiotic Chimp-in-Chief could experience. He gave the youth of that time a reason for hope, a reason for optimism and a reason to think that the United States of America was a great nation. I'm speaking from the perspective of a non-American DU'er who lives overseas. During the Clinton Administration, I saw many people who had held life long grudges against the United States because of their role in Vietnam/Latin America/whatever suddenly speak glowingly of the United States under Clinton. I don't think I'll ever feel the same kind of idealism, hope and optimism for the future that I felt under Clinton and I miss him.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #88
95. I think your post is one of the most relevant posts about the Clinton era
that I've ever read, especially how you expressed the way in which this country was viewed from afar and the effect Clinton had upon that view. Very nicely said, socialdemocrat!!
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RazzleDazzle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
91. Even you yourself know better
No one is perfect, you said so yourself:

Anyone who doubts Bill Clinton's presidency, please take a look at this
fine list of his accomplishments. Yes, he deserves some criticism.


Yes, he deserves some criticism. Thank God we on the left are capable of acknowledging and then DOING that (unlike lock-steppers on the right).

Yes, he deserves some criticism. Or even a lot.

I don't know of anyone (on tghe left) who ever said he accomplished nothing but was instead all bad.
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file83 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 01:55 AM
Response to Original message
99. Funny, I didn't see "Saving the Lives of 800,000 Rwandans" on the list...
Edited on Sat Mar-11-06 01:56 AM by file83
...oh. :eyes:

That's right, it's because he didn't.

Bill Clinton was a great president in my opinion, I voted for him both times. But the Rwanda genocide was one of the biggest preventable human rights failures during his 8 year term, and I will never forgive him for that.
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Geek_Girl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
101. He did some good and some bad
Overall I rate him as the top president in my Life time. I really miss him.
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