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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:26 AM
Original message
Falwell: Jews aren't going to heaven
Falwell wrote this to dispute a report that he actually said Jews could go to heaven even if they did not profess faith in Jesus.

http://www.theconservativevoice.com/articles/article.ht...

Earlier today, reports began circulating across the globe that I have recently stated that Jews can go to heaven without being converted to Jesus Christ. This is categorically untrue.

These false reports originated from a March 1 Jerusalem Post front page column which said: An evangelical pastor and an Orthodox rabbi, both from Texas, have apparently persuaded leading Baptist preacher Jerry Falwell that Jews can get to heaven without being converted to Christianity. Televangelist John Hagee and Rabbi Aryeh Scheinberg, whose Cornerstone Church and Rodfei Sholom congregations are based in San Antonio, told The Jerusalem Post that Falwell had adopted Hagee's innovative belief in what Christians refer to as dual covenant theology. This creed, which runs counter to mainstream evangelism, maintains that the Jewish people have a special relationship to God through the revelation at Sinai and therefore do not need to go through Christ or the Cross to get to heaven.

While I am a strong supporter of the State of Israel and dearly love the Jewish people and believe them to be the chosen people of God, I continue to stand on the foundational biblical principle that all people Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, Jews, Muslims, etc. must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ in order to enter heaven.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:29 AM
Response to Original message
1. God forbid he have one tiny iota of decency in his big, miserable brain nt
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. His decency/indecency doesn't bother me too much.....
It is his literal interpretation of the bible. And his unquestion support of Israeli policies that is causing the most uphevil in this planet. He views the Jews as Frank Perdue loves his chicken, get them nice golden and tender but in the end their heads get chopped....
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. never had it expressed better n/t
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. Why Thank You....
Great minds think alike.... ;)
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #4
23. That's all part of his indecency
"Decency" doesn't mean what the right-wing fundies want it to mean. Many of them are among the most indecent people on earth.
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:14 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Ohh I completely agree.....
It is always those people that get caught in a cheap hotel room with a hooker or "play" with little boys. I was talking about the bigger issues.....
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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 02:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
48. Well-said, physioex
This does a nice job of encapsulating the two-faced stance of Falwell and his hateful henchmen toward Jewish people, a pretense of respect but, deep-down, a simmering pot of bigotry. Falwell wants to manipulate the Jews in Israel, he has no respect for them as people. Again, this fact makes me wonder why some Jewish groups are actually allying with these filthy hatemongers.

On Little Green Footballs, a good number of the ultra-right wingers there are Jews (filled with hate for Palestinians, but Jews nonetheless) who speak well of Falwell, Robertson, Reed and other nuts from the religious right, while trashing more mainstream Christian groups who've long been partners with Jewish groups in the fight for social equality and tolerance. Have they no idea with whom they're allying?
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Golden Raisin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. What gets me is the stunning ARROGANCE!
THEIR version of religion is the ONLY WAY. Everyone else is damned (even if they are temporarily "useful" along the way like Israel and the Jews.) Falwell, Robertson --- all of these guys are as bad as any Taliban mullah --- just as rigid, unforgiving, small-minded, mean-spirited, etc. Actually, the Falwells and Robertsons are worse as they scam poor sheeple to send them money to fund their hateful, twisted, hypocritical versions of religion. I SO wish Jesus WOULD come back, take a good long look at what scum like Falwell/Robertson say & do in his name, and start blasting the fire, brimstone, hellfire & damnation.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. I once had an idiot fundie say to me ...
"You mean Jesus didn't speak English?"

I wish this was a joke.

Some of these backward morons are so profoundly ignorant, they don't know there IS another religion beyond Christianity and "the joos".
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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #42
47. Yeah, Ma Ferguson, some former governor of Texas said that
Ferguson was trying (unsuccessfully, apparently) to utterly stamp out the use of Spanish in Texas even among Tejanos and their children, who had been in Texas for centuries long before the US annexed the region after the Texan Revolution and before the Mexican War (which grabbed another big slice of Mexican territory). This was in the early 20th century.

In pushing for a bill to remove all Spanish signage and to compel (on pain of some pretty nasty corporal punishment) Spanish to be forbidden in just about all workplaces, Ferguson gave a speech defending her position. She then followed with the hilarious sentence: "If English was good enough for Jesus, it should be good enough for us." Needless to say, there were many in the audience who, uh, realized the problems with this statement and questioned Gov. Ferguson's competency, and apparently the bill failed in the legislature.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
2. Wherever falwell goes, I want to go to the other place, it's bound to
be Heaven.
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. Falwell damns Jews to hell - while pretending to love Israel
Typical fundie. Typical Bushbot. These people are totally screwed up. But good business people. They sucker fundies to donate to them because they love jews.

(While the fundies believes Jews can't go to heaven) Bushbot mentality. We'll damn you to hell but we love you!
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. This is essentialy what I am saying in my post above.....
Please read it....
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Rabrrrrrr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. It's not pretending at all - he DOES love Israel.
Falwell, and other futurist premillenial dispensationalists, such as Tim LeHaye and the most of the republican bullshit misadministration and psychotic religious fucknuts behind the rightwing movement, believe in their hearts that Israel MUST exist as a country for Jesus to return and destroy the world, rapture all the holy, and leave all the unholy behind.

Which is why these guys who otherwise hate Jews, hate muslims, hate anything that isn't their false version of Christianity, are such rabid Zionists and insist that the US government continue to shell billions into Israel. Not because they like the Jews, but because their politi-governmental wet dream can't happen without it.

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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. wet dream says it all
I could care less about the different religions until they gain the attention of governments and become an operating arm of government, such as W with the fundies and the Taliban with their fundies.
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. You know.....
Organized Religion like I say is nothing but the perfect tool to control the weak minded masses. It is just hard for people to accept that no one knows for sure what happens in the after life. So there are plenty of Charlatans to prey on this fear....
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liberaltrucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:19 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. Ah, the Marx statement
"Religion is the opium(sp) of the masses". No truer statement ever spoken.
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:18 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. That is right trucker...Tell it like it is...
:)
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Read my post...
I think I expressed it more eloquently..... ;)
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Erika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #13
19. Ah, they love Jews knowing they'll be cast to hell
but because Jews are necessary for the end of times? Well, Alice is still wandering around under the shade of toadstools.
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liberaltrucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. Not for me to judge one's final destiny
But IMHO, Falwell has a slightly warmer corner of Hell reserved for him-just a bit cooler than Hitler's.
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pauldp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
8. As George Carlin would say...
God loves you, but he is going to kill and torture you forever.
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Chipper Chat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
9. Hellooo there Christian-Jerry:
Hey schmuck -
Can you make an exception for Irving Berlin? You know, the guy who wrote GOD BLESS AMERICA? The guy who who enlisted in the army and wrote song after song praising America-the land of the free and the home of the brave? The man who helped launch the modern Broadway Musical?
What's that? No exceptions? Cause why? Oh, cause he's a lousy Jew. Oh, okay, "Reverend." Thought I would try anyway.
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liberaltrucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:42 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Jewish, I presume?
:toast:
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Chipper Chat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. No - gay.
Jewish people know better than to dignify any Falwell utterance with a reply.
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liberaltrucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #11
21. Point taken
And applies in either case.
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thinkingwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:47 AM
Response to Reply #11
32. LOL! Jewish woman here...
Just wanted to pat you on the back for being spot on! :hi:
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ShockediSay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:45 AM
Response to Original message
12. not Falwell's "heaven" anyway
hint: it's hot down there for those who preach false gospel
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okieinpain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
14. hahahahaha, man all of that going to church, and they aren't going
to heaven. and the funny thing is falwell's and his followers won't get to go either. god doesn't like ass holes.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
20. Damn you, Falwell! I thought I had a loophole.
I guess that means I won't get raptured after all.
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Betsy Ross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
24. Eh, Jerry. Got bad news for you.
Jews do not believe in YOUR heaven. We believe in Olam HaBa which means world-to-come. But it bears no relation to your version.

A little education here Jerry: G-d forgives sins against G-d for those who ask forgiveness. But G-d holds all responsible for their sins against man. Forgiveness in this case can only come when you have repaired your sins against others, be they Jewish, Christian, Muslim, or atheist. Get the picture: It isn't your pronouncements of love of G-d that will result in a positive outcome on judgement day, it is how you treat your fellow man.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:20 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Brava!!!
Well done! :applause: Way to represent the "tribe!" :woohoo:
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. I guess I won't be going. That's all right. Jon Stewart and I are
going to the same place. :)
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. We'll be in good company...
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 03:49 AM by Behind the Aegis
...along with the many other Jews, Muslims, atheists, Buddhists, Pagans, and others.

Time for a joke...

David Rosenburg passes away, after a long and fruitful life. He is greeted at a gate. A man approaches him and says, "Hi. I am your guide to the afterlife. I see you were Jewish. Would you like to go straight to the Jewish section of Heaven or take a look around?"

David, always a curious man, said; "Let me look around." He then asks the guide; "Can I go to any section I wish?" The guide says: "Of course! This is Heaven! However, there is only one place you cannot go."

So, David and the guide roam around. They see "pagan" Heaven...it is lush, green, like a forest. People are naked and dancing and having fun. They see "Jewish" Heaven...it is filled with food, dancing, singing, and mothers. ( :)) While David is peeking in on "Catholic" Heaven, he hears a clamor and what sounds like a huge party. He turns and sees another room in Heaven, it is called FUBAR. He peeks in and sees a HUGE party!!!

David says' "I want to go in there! It looks like a blast!" The guide tells him, if he enters there, he can never again go to the "other" Heavens offered.

David asks: "Why? And, what did FUBAR mean?"

The guide responds: "Well, FUBAR stands for "Fundamentalists United By Absolutist Religiosity." These are people, while on Earth, thought they had all the answers and were the only ones destined for Heaven. So, when one of them comes, we send them directly here, and they never leave."

David asks, "But there were many religious followers that thought they had it "right." How can they all end up in the same "room" and party so?"

The guide responds, "They all think they are the same religion and the only ones who made it to Heaven. As on Earth, they see what they want to see."

David questions: "Shouldn't they be allowed to see they weren't right? That G-d loves all people."

The guide says, "What, you should want Earth on Heaven?!"



OK...not a great joke. It is better the real way, but I thought I would add to it. :)
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #30
43. BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHA! I love this. Great joke!
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harlinchi Donating Member (954 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #24
35. That was the most religious sentiment I've heard expressed.
I'm not Jewish. Neither am I a very religious Christian in that I have problems with folks who interpret the bible literally so, admittedly, I'm probably not the best judge but, to me, that was well said. Thanks.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:43 AM
Response to Original message
29. Falwell is a despicable specimen of humanity
And I use the term "humanity" loosely.
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #29
41. thanks for the qualifier. I was about to take issue.
Humanity implies empathy, rational thought and higher brain functions.

Falwell is on par with Terri Schiavo.
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NMMNG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #41
45. Nah, don't insult her like that
From all I've read she was a very nice person before she became comatose.

Falwell would be more on par with a lobotomized Hitler. All the hate with none of the intelligence.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:57 AM
Response to Original message
31. Reminds me of a line from a Ray Wylie Hubbard song
Conversation With the Devil

He said come on over here son, let me show you around
Over there's where we put the preachers, I never liked those clowns

snip

Everybody is down here I said who's up in Heaven with God and the Son
Oh some saints and mystics and students of metaphysics 101
People who care and share and love and try to do what's right
Beautiful old souls who read a little stories to their babies every night
What you wont find up in Heaven are Christian Coalition Right Wing
Conservatives
Country program directors and Nashville record executives
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mtnester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
33. For one hours I want to be Beetlejuice..so I can throw a zipper
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 07:03 AM by mtnester
on his mouth the way Michael Keaton did to Geena Davis...only the second time with a steel bar just in case he unzipped the zipper.

Please..just for one hour make me the mouth zipper deity, for not only Falwell, but anyone else I choose.

I hope Falwell knows God is watching...or is he just too stupid to understand that he will answer for his shit one day? If so, he is a true non-believer delivering a message of belief. Oh wait, don't they talk about that in Revelations and what it means?

Anyway...
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Minnesota Libra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
34. It would serve him well if he ended up where ever the Jews go nt
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
36. Just like little kids and Santy Clause.
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apnu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:31 PM
Response to Original message
38. Uh... wait... Jews don't have a heaven in their faith right?
I could be wrong, I'm not Jewish... maybe someone can enlighten me.

However, were it so, that would make Falwell the second most redundant man in US history. Only behind Regan in his uselessness.
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HuffleClaw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
39. so?
thats christianity for ya. this is hardly news. if pressed, he'd tell ya that only evangelicals are going to heaven, no catholics, buddhists, lutheran, mormons...
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
40. He's too much of a coward to say "Jews are going to Hell."
He gets all wishy-washy..."must believe in the Lord Jesus Christ in order to enter heaven" Jesus, come out and say it, Fatboy!

JEWS ARE HELLBOUND!!!


Goddammit, if Heaven is packed with pathetic mealy-mouthed assclowns like him, I don't wanna go.
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
44. Christian fundies, including Bush, have learned to avoid the Jew issue
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 03:21 PM by Neil Lisst
If you tie them down, they'll tell you the Jews go to hell, having not "accepted" Jesus. But they will try to avoid telling you at all, if they are in any way connected to the national political agenda of the Republicans.

That's why the Falwells and Robertsons go out of their way to avoid saying "Jews all go to hell."

Try getting a fundie like Bush to say it. Never happen, even though it is his core belief. All that talk about being truthful and moral, and he can't even acknowledge his religion's most fundamental tenet.

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Muddy Waters Guitar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
46. Falwell shows his true colors
i.e. to him and his ilk, the Jewish people (in Israel) are mere pawns, tools to be used in their own repugnant ambitions of a big Middle Eastern War to fulfill their own idiotic misreadings of the Bible. These people have no shame.

It's also a shame-- a big filthy shame-- that some Jewish groups in the USA are choosing to align with this snake and his fellow hate-spewers. Liberals and Jews have together formed one of the strongest and most productive political alliances in American history, bringing things like civil rights and assistance for the impoverished to our land, but now many Jewish groups are cozying up to the likes of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. This is Exhibit A for a "Faustian Bargain"-- shame on those who partake in it.
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dorkulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-11-06 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
49. What is controversial about this?
There have been at least a couple of other threads on this, so I'm repeating myself. But isn't this pretty much what all Christians think? Or Muslims for that matter? I'm an agnostic myself--and I hate Falwell as much as anyone--but it seems to me that the whole point of belonging to any specific Christian sect is that all others are hellbound heathens, and only your little group are going to meet the Big Guy's approval. Right?
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