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ABORTION - the Great Divide - hits Neil Lisst cartoon

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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 11:54 PM
Original message
ABORTION - the Great Divide - hits Neil Lisst cartoon
This is self-explanatory today:
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm Mad Dog, by the way ...
so you know where I'm coming from

I write for the left.
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. Mad Dad's so full of shit, I can smell him from here
I'd like to see HIM carry a rape-generated fetus to term, then see how anti-abortion he is.

Wanker.
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. he's a decent guy, but he's very much against abortion
I imagine he will read this thread, however, tomorrow, so feel free to address yourself to him.

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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
4. If mad dad doesn't want an abortion
he doesn't f*ckin' have to have one.

Hey Mad Dad, get your f*ckin' religion out of our god damn lives!!!!

'Cause what any woman does with HER body is none of your f*ckin' business, mad dad...
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
5. I want to acknowledge your post and thank you for it
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 01:00 AM by Neil Lisst
but we'll have to wait until tomorrow to see if Mad Dad will respond.

I think your point is a good one. Just because a person has a belief it doesn't mean they must believe the law should track their beliefs.

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Nutmegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
6. OMG - thanks Neil!
:hug: :pals: :grouphug: :bounce: :loveya:
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 01:13 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. we really split on this one, as you can imagine
I consider it one of life's many moral decisions, and one which those who find themselves in it must face. I don't find it to be a place society has an interest in intervening.

In fact, to the contrary, I think society should butt out until the time when a fetus is clearly viable outside the womb.

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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
8. "Liife is God-given and sacred"
God certainly didn't have a problem killing people, even so far as committing genocide via a flood. Also, God performed an abortion in the Bible.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 03:08 AM
Response to Original message
9. Hate to pile on but that is the difference between the sides.
pro-choice leaves it up to you, anti-choice imposes a religious belief on everybody. Plus, aren't you both guys? As a guy I really think our opinions are just that.
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. yes, we're both guys, and we're both fathers
and I take fatherhood just as seriously, I simply don't think every conceived fetus is best delivered into this world.

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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
10. Thanks, Neil
I appreciate what you've done here.

Dear Mad Dad, I respect your right to form your own opinion on this, but I'd like to pose a couple of questions: Do you honestly view a zygote as a human life, equal in all ways to a living person? Or equal to a 7 month fetus, for that matter? Isn't fetal life a continuum? I don't have a problem with states regulating abortion after the point of viability, but you do realize, I'm sure that 90% of abortion in this country are first term abortions. If your wife was pregnant, and the two of you found out that she was carrying a fetus with anencephaly, no forebrain, no cerebellum, no cranium, no chance of survival after birth? Should the two of you have the legal right to abort the fetus, whatever stage of pregnancy she's in? How about the morning after pill, which in some cases prevents a fertilized egg from attaching? Is that abortion?
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. hey, cali. We felt this was the best way to address this.
There are a half dozen people in my life who are important to me, and yet they agree with "Mad Dad" on this very issue.

I don't think all life is god given.
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
12. "No matter what... horrific acts..."
occur to a woman, the potential child she may be carrying matters more than she does. Got it. Glad to know where we rate on that.

BTW - Mad Dad, you've "witnessed" your wife's pregnancies and thought them a wonderful thing. I wonder how you would feel "witnessing" your wife's rape. I can't imagine you would still think it a wonderful thing.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
13. Question for Mad Dad
when is it okay to have an abortion?

If the pregnancy is tubal, is it okay?
If the woman has uterine cancer, is it okay?
If the fetus is sever ly malformed and will die a painful death within a few days of birth, is it okay?
If it is so horrific as so be unimaginable, how can you do it to save the mother's life or spare the fetus/baby pain?

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mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
15. I'd get along well with you and mad dad Neil
I agree with you but I would slide it back to the first 10 weeks (give or take) of the pregancy. Sorry all but if you tell me that what is in the womb past the first trimester isn't a life you're either stupid or lying and you're ignoring science.
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. I'd be ok with 5 months instead of 6 as the dividing point
To me, the decision is based primarily on the ability of the fetus to live outside the womb.

I would prefer the decision be made in the first 3 months, but I think 5 months is a good compromise given today's technologies.

It's a societal problem, and because of the great diversity of opinions, compromise will have to exist.
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cookiebird Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Decision-Making
perhaps should be an issue in this debate. How should an abortion decision be made? Convenience? Woman's control of her body? State's Rights to regulate medical procedures? Opinions of 3rd parties, such as pharmacists? Opinions of politicians playing to their base ? Danger to the woman's health--and how that is defined? I've not seen that discussion. Abortion will not be regulated into oblivion--it will continue to exist. In the cases of rape or incest, is the perp going to have parental rights & visitation?? That hasn't been addressed, either. There are legal statutes that speak to such matters.
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. I prefer the approach that puts the person most affected in charge
That is the pregnant woman or girl.

In my opinion, no one should have the right to make her carry that child if she doesn't want to.
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mrgorth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. I disagree
but I'm using a different standard. My ex does ultrasounds. We had videotape everyday that my boys were in utero. I asked her her opinion once and she told me 8 weeks. By 8 weeks enough things have formed that you can't not call it life. So with 10-12 weeks I'm being generous. So I'm noones friend. I get called pro-life by the pro-choicers and pro-choice by the lifers. Oh well.
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. so it's alive, so what?
it's still not equal to a full-fledged PERSON, the woman/girl in whose uterus it feeds.

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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. that's the reason I use the standard of live outside the womb
I know it's life from the instant it's fertilized. It's the rights we grant that life which matters.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
20. Hey Mad Dad!
I have a condition that makes it very likely that will experience a tubal pregnancy should I ever get pregnant- am I supposed to accept this death sentence???

Hands OFF my uterus!!!! :grr:
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
21. I don't know if "Mad Dad" will respond, so I'll say this
He's not a person who is going to openly push his viewpoint on this. He sees this as simply his personal choice not to participate in a cartoon that appears to support abortion when he considers abortion the taking of a life, however it is conceived, whatever the other issues involved.

Obviously, I disagree.

I think life is a miracle, but we make choices every day about who will live and who will die. I don't think God plays a role in the creation of either a human being or the ebola virus.
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
22. afternoon kick
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
23. Mad Dad sounds like a jerk...
"MY" wife's pregnancies

"MY" children....

well, wifey is just a little vessel for your seed, huh?

:puke:
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. he's really more like a Jimmy Carter type
And like Jimmy Carter, he opposes abortion for the reasons he stated.

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MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
27. Viability is a sticking point, but a decision should be based on a process
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 05:07 PM by MissMarple
not a draconian law. There are many factors to consider, and an informed decision should be left up the the most interested parties. And THE most interested party is the woman. If folks are really against abortion they will support legislation and social and economic policies that decrease it. This South Dakota nonsense is offensive and ignorant. Those legislators are not really against abortion, they consistently promote and make political hay from legislation that leads directly to an increased need for abortions.

If you want to make a cartoon about South Dakota, focus on them. They are the evil perpetrators of human misery.
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
28. I'll pass this along.
He's not the type to engage in message board discussions like this.

He has read your comments and mine, and liked this comment I made about him regarding this issue:

He's not a person who is going to openly push his viewpoint on this. He sees this as simply his personal choice not to participate in a cartoon that appears to support abortion when he considers abortion the taking of a life, however it is conceived, whatever the other issues involved.
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MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. He sounds like a good guy, quite honorable.
Edited on Fri Mar-10-06 08:04 PM by MissMarple
We can't ask for more than that. Thanks for the discussion you generated :)
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Neil Lisst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-10-06 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. we almost came to blows over it, metaphorically speaking!
grrrrrrrrr

I don't like being stymied!

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