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Let me get this straight: BBM wins Best Director, Adapted Screenplay. . .

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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 07:30 AM
Original message
Let me get this straight: BBM wins Best Director, Adapted Screenplay. . .
Edited on Tue Mar-07-06 07:35 AM by wndycty
. . .and original score, in addition to its wins it was nominated for best picture, one of its leads was nominated for Best Actor, the other nominated for Best Supporting Actor, it received a Best Supporting Actress nomination, and Best Cinematography. Yet the fact that it failed to pick up the Best Picture is a sign of Hollywood/Academy homophobia?

Oh please this is one of the biggest non controversy controversies. Folks the film would not have gotten all of those damn nominations if the Academy was homophobic, its Academy members who nominate the damn films in the first place. By virtue of the nomination of best picture it has been declared by the Academy one of the best 5 films of 2005.

It is absolutely pointless to argue which film was better, Brokeback or Crash, its very subjective. 3 damn Oscars (especially director and adapted screenplay) are pretty damn impressive. If Hollywood and the Academy was so DAMNED HOMOPHOBIC would the film's Asian director, who was up against Spielberg, Cloonery, Haggis and Miller, have won the Oscar for best direction? If the Hollywood was so DAMNED HOMOPHOBIC would the adapted screenplay have won the Oscar?

And lets not forget int the Best Actor category Heath Ledger was beat out by Philip Seymour Hoffman who played, guess what a GAY MAN!

The tired argument of Brokeback losing the best picture because of Hollywood/Academy homophobia is just that TIRED!

It seems like anything short of a BBM sweep is homophobic. If Capote had beat out BBM would that have been viewed as homophobic? This is just a MADE UP CONTROVERSY!
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. As a lesbian, I agree with you
Edited on Tue Mar-07-06 07:35 AM by LostinVA
I said this yesterday: BBM has won every other major award, and all five Best Picture noms are movies with a liberal and/or progressive POV (except that Munich was kinda all over the place). We should be celebrating the Oscars this year! WE WON, folks.
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 07:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. Isn't there something in the Bible
which prevents movies about Gay Cowboys winning the Best Picture Oscar? Yeah, I think you got it "straight!"
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. I think so...
it is right near the passage when Moses aka Charlton Heston says
" you will get my double headed dildo when you pry it out of my cold dead hands" An interesting read.
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
47. Personally, I think a movie about gay steel workers would have...
done better...but what do I know.

Homer: you're Gay????

Steel worker: the steel industry has been gay for years!
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #47
66. Only if the gay steel workers meet up with the gay cowboys
And the gay indians and gay police officers and gay soldiers and form a band

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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
3. Agreed. This faux controversy isn't worth the electrons . . .
painted on our screens.
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DrGonzoLives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 07:39 AM
Response to Original message
4. A good point about Hoffman
People do seem to be forgetting that, but they'll probably argue that Capote wasn't "about" Capote's homosexuality, like Brokeback Mountain. Or maybe I'm just a VIRULENT HOMOPHOBE in disguise.
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Felix Mala Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
61. Anyone thinking "Capote" had nothing to do with homosexuality, missed
the movie. He became obsessed with crime because he fell in love with the criminal.
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Felix Mala Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. I'd have been a proud gay guy if it had won, but I was just as impressed
with Crash. It painfully showed us that, contrary to what the Lamebaughs and Falafel Masters say, racism is alive today in America. Big Time.

Beside, I thought King Kong was the best major motion picture of the year. I thought Naomi Watts and Andy Sorkis deserved Oscars for the best (and biggest) love story I've ever seen in the film.

(And yes, I'm a devoted fan of the 1933 version and have easily seen it 200 times.)
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
5. This kind of thing happens ALL the time with the oscars.
It's not just voting behavior, but candidates split votes, cancel out votes, etc. Streep and someone else split votes and Hepburn gets it for "On Golden Pond," though less deserving. Hepburn doesn't win for any of her best performances.

Elizabeth Taylor gets an oscar for her trachiotomy

It's NOT logical and there is no one, collective pattern.

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Radio_Guy Donating Member (875 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 08:57 AM
Response to Original message
6. No
"Yet the fact that it failed to pick up the Best Picture is a sign of Hollywood/Academy homophobia?"

Not at all, IMO. It is a sign of Hollywood fearing a backlash. There are a LOT of people who would turn their back on the movie industry if BBM had won. They already turned off the Academy awards (ratings down 10%) just because BBM was nominated Best Picture. We are making inroads, but we have to take baby steps. Turning a public that gave $370 million for Passion of the Christ will take time. Acceptance of blacks took a long time, and still hasn't happened in some pockets of this country. Acceptance of gays will take a while as well. But it will happen as man evolves.
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BoneDaddy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. You are brilliant
"baby steps" I totally agree. It isn't about what is right, it is about what will work. As a bisexual man I have always found shoving something down anyone's throat (hehe, nice analogy)will cause them to gag or puke. Look at the Oscar's this year. Look how many gay characters got the election, look at Ang Lee winning best director, PSH winning for Capote.

This is by far a victory for some in the gay community that will help pave the way for future forays into gay film. Any attempt to call for conspiracy makes the important issues look foolish and innacurate.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #8
59. How is showing gay-themed movies on the big screen shoving
something down anyone's throat?

It's not like someone is holding a gun to people's heads forcing them to watch....

There are many other straight-themed movies to chose from, correct?
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. I wonder how many gay academy members voted for Crash. . .
. . .are they homophobic? Self-loathing? Or heaven forbid did they just prefer Crash?
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. I don't recal Passion of the Christ winning best picture. . .
. . .was it even nominated, if not is the Academy anti-Christian as well?
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fujiyama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. It was nominated for
Edited on Tue Mar-07-06 06:05 PM by fujiyama
3 awards - cinemetography, score, andn make up.

It won 0.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #17
74. Oh no
so they're anti-Christian too. Let me go rant and rave now and draw up a big consperiacy. :sarcasm:
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
73. Of course there'sno proof at all of your claims
Each person has their own individual tastes. Dull story line or dull acting. Who knows but it's a program nobody will remember in sixty years anyways.
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Sparkman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
9. Can't someone just count? Audience volume...the truth.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #9
45. That's what the "People's Choice" awards are for...
This year, the PC picked Wedding Crashers over The 40 Year Old Virgin for best comedy.

Would you really have wanted BBM to win one of those?

Yeah, let's let the people decide... :scared:
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Sparkman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Democratic advocate here, let the people choose and let us vote.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #46
58. Why don't we let the people vote for Nobel prizes too?
And Pulitzers.

God forbid people who actually know something about the chemistry, or journalism, or fiction, or the craft of film should have a say. Who are they to say what was done very well? :eyes:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #58
62. Glad that someone beat me to it.
Like I say, WC over 40 YOV?

The newest in erection enhancers over significant progress in, say, stem cell research?

Yeah, I'm all over that... :sarcasm:
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Sparkman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #58
80. I don't presume to be qualified for Nobel Prizes....but we all know movies
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #46
67. Then don't call them Academy awards
The process is democratic, if you're a member of the Academy you can vote for the awards.

And if you think the "people" would have given BBM a majority vote for any awards let alone Best Picture and I have a bridge to sell you.
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FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
10. Yeah, you got it "STRAIGHT" - you damn homophobe!
Don't you understand that a vote FOR another movie was a vote AGAINST gays?

:sarcasm:

I somehow remember similiar arguments being made about "Passion"...
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PBass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. It's just the freaking Oscars,
trying to read some logic into it is pointless, let alone a conspiracy. Look at all the crappy movies that have won Best Picture before, and lighten up.
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FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Maybe you should check out what I wrote in my msg b4 replying next time...
...the :sarcasm: icon means I wasn't being serious
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Cronus Protagonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. Nice rant, and you hit the proverbial nail right on the head
I couldn't have said it better. Thanks for doing that.

:yourock:

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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
16. The fact that "Good Night and Good Luck" won nothing
shows that the Academy endorses McCarthyism!

:P
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 08:02 PM
Original message
That's my new line.
Thank you.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #16
75. Clooney did win won award
I forgot what it was for now. It was a couple of days ago.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
18. A couple of things
One, to get nominated one only has to be in the top five of votes for best movie of the year. Movies aren't ranked and nominators can only nominate one. Assuming that Hollywood has one in 10 gay people, a proportion similar to the population as a whole, that would be fairly easy to do on gay votes alone.

I admit to having no earthly idea how many votes Brokeback lost by, but a bunch of publications, including Rolling Stone, have explictly stated that there was a homophobic element among the voters who were refusing to see the film. Coupled with a total lack of any name gay stars certainly makes one wonder.

Lee was a shoo in due in large part to his being ripped off twice (once for Sense and Sensibility and once for Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon).

We are still in the position of not a single gay themed movie winning a best picture Oscar.

Am I sure it is homophobia, no. Is it possible, yes.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. So can I claim racism for Terrence Howard losing Best Actor?
Anti-Semitism for Munich not winning shit?
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Did Terrence Howard win Best Actor at the Golden Globes
the SAG Awards, the British Academy Awards and the Human Spirit Awards and every other award show prior to the Oscars?

Did Munich win Best Picture at the Golden Globes, the British Academy Awards, the Human Spirit awards and almost every other award show prior to the Oscars?

If not (and no, they didn't) then your little analogy is utterly without merit.
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #20
41. What about Saving Private Ryan?
That won numerous awards, yet still lost Best Picture that year to Shakespeare in Love.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #41
48. Shakespeare in Love was tediously awful
...in other words, just like the usual winner for Best Picture.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #41
71. Take out the first half hour
and Saving Private Ryan was a standard war film. The first half hour justifibly won Speilburg an Oscar but frankly the rest of the film was formulaic and derivative.
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #71
78. But my point was in response to post #20.
The poster was saying that it's odd that BBM won many other non-Oscar awards yet still failed to win Best Picture.

I wasn't commenting on the merits of the film.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Could racism have been a factor in The Color Purple getting 11 noms
and not winning a single Oscar? I think it's certainly a possibility.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. actually that was African Americans complaining
about the movie. Many African Americans think it was a too happy version of the book.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. I remember considerable black anger over that.
I also remember quite a bit of speculation that the Academy just didn't want to award Oscars to black actors/actresses and a black film. It would never have occurred to me to dismiss those concerns out of hand and tell people they need to get over it.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. I would imagine that
racism also played some part. But there are many better examples. Washington not getting an Oscar for Glory or for Malcom X and Freeman not getting an Oscar in the year he did both Lean on Me and Driving Miss Daisy.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #36
52. Lean on Me didn't deserve an Oscar!
It was a so-so film in which Freeman did an outstanding job but it was far from Oscar material. Driving Miss Daisy was a much better film and deserving of the Oscar, IMO. Your post sounds like you think he should have gotten the Oscar just cause he made two films in one year. Hopefully that's not what you meant.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #52
68. I think in both of those films he gave great performances
and either one alone would be worthy of an Oscar. Taken together, they showed an amazing range which should have gotten him an Oscar.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #68
77. Maybe because I am a teacher who thought Joe Clark was a poor
principal, I have a hard time praising his performance too highly in Lean on Me. But I do agree he was incredible in Driving Miss Daisy.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 05:18 AM
Response to Reply #77
79. I don't like Hannibal Lector either
but Hopkins deserved the Oscar. Freeman was terrific in the film no matter the merits of Clark.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. The Academy is well known to be racist
It took an age and a half for Morgan Freeman to win an Oscar as well as for Washington to win one. It was the 21st century before an African American woman to win a best actress Oscar. As for Hustle and Flow I didn't see it so I can't comment on the quality of Howard's performance.
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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #22
39. And how many times was Spike Lee snubbed outright?
That's a big one. Do the Right Thing was royally robbed, and Denzel Washington should have won for Malcolm X, not fucking Training Day.

In my opinion, anyway.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
24. Yeah, that's right
you know hollywood and the Academy so much better than Ken Turan, Nikki Finke, half of the journalists at the Hollywood Reporter and tons of studio executives.

The fact that they think Brokeback lost due to homophobic bigotry is utterly ridiculous, who do they think they are? Hollywood insiders?

A bunch of people writing on the Democratic Underground message board are FAR savvier and know TONS more about why and how the Academy voted the way it did. Why virtually every DU'er chats regularly with Academy members, don't you know?

Your post is ridiculously offensive. The only MADE UP controversy is the idiots who stubborly insist, with an oddly obsessive kind of tenacious ignorance, without knowing JACK SHIT about the subject, that there is no homophobia in Hollywood.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
25. A message from my gay friends.
Edited on Tue Mar-07-06 09:58 PM by AtomicKitten
Best Actor: From Capote.
Best Actress: From Walk the Line.
Best Supporting Actor: From Syriana.
Best Supporting Actress: From Constant Gardener.

My gay friends insisted I tell folks to quit trying to sell the "homophobia controversy."

Fights break out every Oscar season. This season is nothing special in that regard.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. What gay theme is in the last three?
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. waaaaaa?
That's not the point; I don't really understand what you're asking me.

I had a sit-down with my gay friends here in SF and not a single one of them was upset that BBM didn't win best picture. The awards were all over the place.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. You post a thing stating that four films were honored
and left a clear implication that all four had something to do with a gay theme. It isn't my fault you left a false impression.
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. AK, I think you're an extraordinarily bright human being
but, honestly, what do a lesbian Cambodian migrant farm worker and an in the closet Wall st investment banker have in common?

Absolutely nothing. Other than the fact that they are both gay.

Your gay buddies in San Fransisco do not lend any special gravitas or authority to this discussion just because they are gay.

The people who DO speak with authority on this are people who work in Hollywood, and the buzz amongst many, if not most, of them, and the ones with NO AXE TO GRIND, is exactly what Kenneth Turan wrote in the LA Times: many Academy members were freaked out by BBM, refused to see it in the theatre or screen it at home and did not vote for it BECAUSE of the subject matter it addressed. Giving Ang Lee an award for best director is voting for just that: BEST DIRECTION. Giving the Best Picture Oscar is an entirely different kettle of fish, and much of the town simply was not going to give that honor to a film that addressed a love affair between two masculine gay men.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. that was the point
Edited on Tue Mar-07-06 10:47 PM by AtomicKitten
That there is no correlation between who won what.

And I'm sorry to hear credence is given to the notion that there is such bias. I found my friends to be credible sources of opinion on it. Question: If they didn't vote for BBM, how did Ang Lee win BD?

I guess I'm not convinced it's true. Maybe that's my Pollyanna complex. And if it is true, it sucks ass. And it reinforces why I live where I do.

Still I thought Crash was a better film so it wasn't an issue to me in that regard.


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Withywindle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 04:10 AM
Response to Reply #33
40. There are Oscar geeks who study this much closer than I do...
so I agree with you mostly because...a lot of them were saying it was time for another BP/BD split, because that hadn't happened since '03, when Roman Polanski won BD but Chicago won BP. (And does that mean that the Academy is anti-Semitic or unsympathetic to Holocaust movies? Hardly. Most watchers I know at the time thought it might go the other way, since Polanski is more controversial than his movie)

BBM wasn't dissed. It did very well! There was no big sweep this year, and it was a very tight category full of good films, and we'll never know if Crash won by 200 votes or 2.

Which is NOT to say that there isn't homophobia in Hollywood, much less the rest of the country. Of course there is. But even if BBM had won BP, then what? Do we think there's no more racism in Hollywood because a few people of color have won big awards over the years? That'd be silly.

The fact that the Best Actor winner played a gay character, and a Best Actress nominee played a transgendered character...(and for that matter, as good as she was in Million Dollar Baby, last year's Best Actress winner is still best remembered to me for playing a trans character) it's a sign of the ice breaking. Still a long way to go, fuck yeah, but it does weaken the evidence of conspiracy, doesn't it?

That said, I'll be a lot happier about the state of gay Hollywood once Sir Ian McKellen wins the Oscar he's deserved for years.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #33
76. Earlier in the week on Stephanie Miller's show
they were talking about this in the third hour and Chris said he talked about this on Friday and predicted "Crash" would win over BBM and he said he liked "Crash" a lot better than BBM and he saw both. So it all depends on each person's tastes. :shrug: I thought all the movies nominated this year were very worthy and I do think Michelle Williams got snubbed because she's a really good actress over all.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #29
82. so you're saying people who refused to see the film still voted for Lee
for best director? That makes so little sense I don't know where to begin.

onenote
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #25
44. Well, if Official San Francisco Homosexuals say there's no problem with it
then there's clearly nothing wrong and we should all just shut up and sit down. :eyes:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #44
54. wow that was a random conclusion
It doesn't further your cause to employ sarcasm to diss a non-homosexual who is trying to understand the homosexual point of view. That kind of drama is almost always counterproductive.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #54
60. Well, it's kinda like someone saying,
to a Jew that antisemitism is not an issue anymore because his Jewish friend said it wasn't. Since I am not a Jew, and thus not subject to antisemitic prejudice, I don't dismiss people's concerns about it. I think that would be very presumptuous of me.

The strangest thing about this discussion, and the most disturbing, is how vehemently so many liberals and progresives here deny and dismiss our concerns about homophobia and even attack us for bringing them up. It's like they have a very strong emotional investment in believing that the bad old days are over and don't want anything to threaten that.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #60
65. I can only speak for myself.
I have been involved in the Oscars guessing biz for a while, having been pretty proficient at guessing ( I accurately guessed the top 6 awards this year too - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph... ) and even played against the city in our local paper. I have witnessed the annual bitching and moaning for years, and this year didn't seem any different to me, at least on the surface.

I still have some doubts because of the fact that the Academy voted for Ang Lee for having directed BBM even though it didn't win best picture. There is a disconnect in connecting the dots there IMO.

However, if sources are correct in reporting that some Academy members refused to even watch the film, then of course there is merit in alleging bias. And that, of course, is a justifiable complaint. However, again, Ang Lee getting the best director nod puts a glitch in that rationale IMO.

I am not nor have ever been oblivious to the plight of the GLBT in America today. Other than mentioning that my gay friends expressed no concerns about bias, my contribution to this conversation has been purely from the film critique point of view.
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GoneOffShore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
30. BBM - Let's move on
As what I posted here is rapidly dropping off the board, I'll post a link
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. If you're not interested in a topic, don't click on the threads.
That's simple enough.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
32. You apparently are just interested in provoking gay people, because how
Edited on Tue Mar-07-06 10:44 PM by cboy4
many posts have we had about this subject over the past 72 hours and you have to compose another thread to rub our noses in it.

This thing has been debated and debated in bitter fashion, yet you need to bring it up all over again.

The comment alone that "this is one of the biggest non controversies" is offensive enough.

You have zero, and I mean zero knowledge that the academy as a whole is not homophobic.

Hollywood is homophobic, because (I'm gunna say it for the 600th hundred time since Sunday) there are few to any out of the closet major gay actors because they are afraid they won't be cast for a film.

If you want to make yourself look less ridiculous in the future writing about gay-related subject matter....I suggest you do a little reading and research before you announce that there is not homophobia in Hollywood.

Fine. Homophobia may not have factored into the decision to give the award to Crash, but homophobia does exist in liberal Hollywood....yet some people are so narrow-minded, they can't get that through their skulls.

edit...typo
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. The major gay actors are in the closet NOT because Hollywood is
homophobic, but because Mary Jane Redstate in Beaverbreath, Arkansas has a photo of Tom Cruise up on her bedroom wall, and she'd be really upset (and stop going to see his movies) if she found out he was gay. Right?

Everyone, and I repeat EVERYONE in Hollywood knew Rock Hudson was gay since he arrived in the town. He used to give notorious all-male parties around his swimming pool every Sunday. And NO ONE CARED. And no one wanted to out him because his films would stop making money in the midwest! Hollywood is not homophobic much of the rest of the US is, though.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-07-06 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. I disagree. I think you're only citing Hollywood propaganda.
I'm not trying to insult you by any means.

I'm just saying, sure......that's what Hollywood want you to think...that people won't go to the movies to watch gay actors/actresses.

Sure, "Mary Jane Redstate" is going to be upset if she finds out Tom Cruise is gay.

But how do we know people won't go to the movies to see him and other gay actors anyway? There's no proof people in large or even small numbers will stay away.

If new gay actors/actresses in their 20's started coming out of the closet from the start of their careers.....movie-goers would know from the beginning they were gay, and not have to be disappointed finding out later.

But this unwritten don't ask, don't tell policy in Hollywood is outrageous.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. gay mucians have done fine
If Elton or George Michael to a hit I didn't see it. I think Hollywood is underestimating its audience.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #38
43. Neither of them came out for a LONG time and I don't think George
Michael did it willingly.

Also, neither of them has to perform in a love scene on film. It's quite different for a leading man or a leading lady.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #43
69. Elton has been out for a long time
and had several hits afterward including the Lion King and the version of Candle in the Wind that he sang for Diana's funeral. No Michael didn't come out willingly but he is out now and his career is starting up again.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #38
49. George Michael?
His career went in the toilet. Tough to sell to teenage girls who were the main drives behind his popularity. His last hit was years ago and that was a remake of a popular Elton John song.
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #35
42. Finding out Rock Hudson was gay
was a sad day for my mom. Then she was glad she didn't know sooner because she couldn't have watched his movies, his love interests, the same way. She wasn't even homophobic...she encouraged my sister to come out, wasn't bothered at all by it, but a gay person wouldn't work as her romantic idol.

I'm sure there are homophobic people in Hollywood, prejudices of all sorts. But I agree that actors not coming out is about the audience, about making money from the moms like mine of the world.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #42
50. Isn't it curious that some straight people won't go to the theater
because there might be (GASP) a gay actor in a movie? Oh the humanity!!!

I mean, it doesn't bother me watching heterosexual intimacy during a movie or on TV.

So why is it so difficult for some straight people to sit through a movie starring gay actors??

I'll be so glad when the baby boomer's disappear. Only then do I think the terrible attitudes toward gay people will start changing .
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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #50
56. Rock Hudson died in 69
as the oldest of the baby boomers were coming of age and the youngest were 4 and 5.

It might be better not to knock a generation over this issue. I know people from their teens to 70's who are homophobic (it's the rx christian thing to be) and people in that whole range who are utterly accepting or gay themselves.

You're sounding boomerphobic. That's not better.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. The bottom line is you said in your O.P. that Hollywood is not homophobic
because it nominated and awarded Brokeback a few trophies.

Sure, perhaps the decision to pass over Brokeback and give the trophy to Crash was not homophobic. None of us know for sure.

However, you don't know what you're talking about when you say Hollywood is not homophobic. That's ridiculous.

I think it's very telling that in the movie capital of the world, there are not a lot more out of the closet gay and lesbian actors on the big screen.

They don't disclose their sexuality because they're afraid they won't be cast in a film. Trust me.

If you don't buy that argument, how do you explain why you can't rattle off the names of well know out of the closet gay movie stars who work in very liberal and political Hollywood??!!


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jbnow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #57
64. Oh, I agree with you on that
I'm just saying that it's likely not that they are personally more homophobic in Hollywood. If they were publicly out of the closet I agree they would be much less likely to be cast because of fearing audiences wouldn't accept it and they'd lose money.

In my OP I was responding to someone who talked about Hollywood all knowing Hudson was gay but they didn't care.
But if the public at large knew he'd have lost those roles.

I'm sure that's true now. Gay, straight, who cares, unless it will hit the pocketbook. Then they care.

And it IS really stupid. Do we think movies are real, that people really are the role they are playing? So we agree on that too. They are ACTING and it shouldn't make any difference.

My sister is in theater on the east coast. Openly gay actors are often in romantic leads. Maybe stage actors don't feel as restrained because people don't care so much about their private lives, they don't have the fame or the spot light.

I don't understand why we care if an athlete or actor or anyone is straight or gay unless we are likely to sleep with them.
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cboy4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #64
70. Absolutely. I appreciate you clarifying that
;)
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MountainMama Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-09-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #56
81. Um,
Rock Hudson died in 1985, as this Gen X'er was in college. Finding out he was gay surprised me, but I said to my mom, "See? And people said he couldn't act!"

Homophobia still lives, unfortunately.
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SteelBird Donating Member (38 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 12:03 PM
Response to Original message
51. Agreed
I admit I haven't seen all the best picture nominees, I only saw Crash which I enjoyed and thought was deserving of the best picture nomination and winner because I thought the ensemble cast did a great job in the film, the story was great and it was very moving to be honest. Its not like Brokeback Mountain didn't win a single award it was nominated for, it won 3 of 8. No one is accusing the academy of being anti semitic because Munich didn't win a single award and it was up for many of the same awards that Brokeback Mountain was like Best Picture, Best Director which Brokeback won, and best adapted screenplay, and best original score which I believe Brokeback won.
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
53. The only reason I'm pissed Crash won...
Edited on Wed Mar-08-06 12:14 PM by SteppingRazor
Is that it was such a freaking awful movie. It was like a thesis on racism written by an 8th grader. The message was so heavy-handed, I half expected Keenan Ivory Wayans to pop out from somewhere and yell "Message!" (If you've seen "Don't Be a Menace..." you know what I mean) Besides the heavy-handedness, the story was a steaming pile of cow dung in other ways. The coincidences in the film were so astronomical they would have made Charles Dickens blush (If you've read Tale of Two Cities or, well, pretty much anything else he wrote, you know what I mean).

I get it. Racism is a huge problem. In some ways, even more of a problem now, because it's institutionalized. But I don't need that spoon-fed to me via a completely improbably script.

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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. clearly many disagree
but that's okay.

In the words of George Harrison, it's all part of the stew.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-08-06 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
72. Don't say that you're homophobic
:sarcasm: :eyes:
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