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Catholic hierarchy should be ashamed of itself, re: Kerry, re: everything

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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 11:31 AM
Original message
Catholic hierarchy should be ashamed of itself, re: Kerry, re: everything
They promoted Bush over one of their own, and what do they end up getting for their efforts but some of the worst years in the history of our nation, along with some imbecile proposing a sterilized city in Florida to be a safe haven for Catholics. Congratulations!

If Catholic higher-ups had a half-way decent brain in their Middle Aged skulls, we might be sitting here worrying about how to get Kerry re-elected in 2008 instead of worrying about getting a Democrat elected period.

I'm a Catholic myself (only because it says so on some piece of paper), but it still irks me to no end how the Catholic religion turned on one of its own in favor of that moral majority saint, George W Bush. I hope they feel good about themselves, knowing that they helped enable a legitimate monster to be our president for a second term. If Catholics hadn't promoted Bush so much via such hateful and prehistoric rhetoric towards the issue of abortion, I don't think Bush would be sitting in the WH today.

Yeah, I've criticized other aspects of our campaign, but AFAIC, the Catholic hierarchy is just as much to blame as any other single factor that might have made the difference between winning and losing that election. Some people even go so far as to claim that Catholics made more of a difference in Ohio than voter fraud could have. Imagine that.
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Inland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
1. The heirarchy was pathetic.
My feeling is that right wingers, catholic and protestant alike, were nudging the bishops, and they were *so flattered* that somebody was actually pretending like their opinions really, really mattered, that they dumped their own principles to take a public stand politically on pseudoreligious grounds. It was pretty much an act of blackmail against a devout catholic at the behest of a protestant controlled political machine.

I think Kerry was betrayed as a catholic and a person by the noise over whether he would or would not be excommunicated, while catholics were encouraged to vote for the guy who never pretended to be a good catholic, Bush. And of course, it was all about making abortion a crime, not any other issue of life or death. I feel bad for Kerry and feel that the bishops disquieted a large number of catholics in order to be political dupes.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. That Kerry really seems to be a practicing Catholic
made it worse. The comment in one article that his staff called Catholic churches in areas he was campaigning to insure that it would be ok with them if he went to mass was sad. Their comment that they did this because Kerry was horrified at the thought that they would deny him communion is painful. His comments on religion were beautiful.

Clearly his votes on abortion disagree with the church. It's also clear that Kerry loves the constitution and accepts the seperation of church and state. There really is an unresolvable conflict here - but it hurts that parts of the church were willing to treat him so harshly - especially when the other candidate was very clearly a less moral person. It was good that there were parts of the church that made it clear that it was ok to vote for him.

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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. I think your post is extremely accurate
and I also agree that, as a Catholic himself, Kerry was betrayed. The church picked abortion and corruption in Bush over honesty and integrity in Kerry.
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
2. They have been doing it for years.
They supported Eisenhower over Stevenson because he was a divorced Catholic. They also got "One nation under God" in the pledge signed into law by Eisenhower. The nuns were so thrilled with Ike, they sent us home early from school for lunch so they could watch Ike's inauguration on TV. It strikes me the Catholic church has always preferred style over substance.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. I'm not sure how to respond
I would guess that not many people are paying attention to the bishops one way or another, but they have the checkbooks and the deeds. People in active parishes dread a visit from the bishop lest it be a prelude to an announcement that the parish is being closed/consolidated. People I've known for years are surprising me every day now because they are so angry at seeing the bishops cling to the notion that somehow an army of young celibate males will appear out of nowhere to take over the roles of the retiring priests. I just don't see how these guys could influence an election one way or another.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. You don't see "how these guys could influence an election"??
Edited on Sat Mar-04-06 11:53 AM by mtnsnake
They sure did influence it. Catholic voters were almost 30% of all the people who voted, and the majority of them voted for Bush because of the church's outspokenly slanted views on abortion, a view which was amplified all during the campaign. If they can't support one of their own for the basic good he stands for, then the church should just STFU entirely when it comes to politics.
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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. "how these guys could influence an election"??
Yep, the catholic church spent over half a million here in Michigan
ALONE, backing the "anti-gay marriage" proposal EVEN THOUGH IT WAS
ALREADY AGAINST THE LAW in Michigan. They wanted (and succeeded) in
CHANGING OUR STATE CONSTITUTION to deliberately curtail human rights
for a certain percent of our population.

Not coincidentally, the push for the anti-gay initiative brought many
"god-fearing" bush voters out of their holes, when they might have stayed
home.

Thank you, Archdiocese of Michigan. Thank you, Cardinal Maida!
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. You don't have to convince me of that.
LOL. It's the guy above me who needs the convincing! ;)

Thanks for posting that. Your example is just one of many examples of how they influenced the election by getting people to vote for the wrong person for their own self-serving agenda.

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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. That "yep" means "I agree with you"
:hi:

Three, count'me THREE people I knew QUIT
going to, or tithing to the catholic church
during the last election cycle.

One family found a more liberal congregation
and has since returned. The others have
sworn off the church.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I know of a couple people who have quit them, too.
Bush has not only divided the country, but he's pretty good at dividing churches, too.

:hi:
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demosincebirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. I agree.
Many Catholics I know feel the same way. Some people just assume that all Catholics are like sheep and follow the Churches teachings in all aspects of their lives. Many of us are free thinking and progressive and TRY to live within the teachings of Jesus Christ.
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
18. Their influence depends on where you live.
I live in an area that is not very enlightened and the Church has a lot of influence. People listen and follow the instructions they are given.
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
5. Seems like these people worry more about abortion than weather or not they
have a house to live in, medical insurance, or food to eat. I have one word for it

Fanaticism

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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. They really do, and the church has a lot to do with that. n/t
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
14. Glad to see this
Posted on Sat, Mar. 04, 2006

House Democrats explain how Catholic faith shapes their public lives


By Alan Cooperman
Washington Post

WASHINGTON - Still reeling from the attacks on Sen. John Kerry's brand of Roman Catholicism during the 2004 presidential race, 55 House Democrats issued a statement this week on the central role that the Catholic faith plays in their public lives.

The signers said they were fed up with being labeled ``good Catholics'' or ``bad Catholics'' based on one issue -- abortion. They said their religion infuses their positions on many issues.

``Some of us are pro-choice and some of us are pro-life,'' said Rep. William Pascrell, D-N.J. ``But we respect each other and we're going to defend each other, because we're all operating in good conscience.''

The statement stressed that all of the Catholic Democrats share the goal of reducing the incidence of abortion.

more...

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/living/religion/14016786.h...

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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
15. It's a tradition with the world's longest running corrupt multinational
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 09:08 PM
Response to Original message
16. I think Jesus should take the pope behind the woodshed
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 09:28 PM
Response to Original message
17. Catholics didn't listen to hierarchy. Catholics split 50:50, roughly --
the way they have in the last 4 or 5 elections.

Many in the Catholic hierarchy are out-of-touch right wingers. But the people in the churches are good people.

If you don't like what the hierarchy is doing, then go to church on Sunday and talk and work with the people in your communities to do the opposite of what the hierarchy wants.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
19. But they don't turn on Snowe, Collins, Giuliani
and a host of other pro-choice Catholics, who just happen to be Republicans. That's what irks me about their stance against Kerry, the pure hypocrisy of it. And how dare any priest or bishop threaten to withhold the sacrament from someone who isn't their parishioner. They should be admonished for that, it's not their place.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 01:37 AM
Response to Original message
20. With Bush we got more
war and torture and losing jobs for example. *sigh* :( At least Kerry could've stopped the torture.
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