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Robert Fisk: US Trying to Drive Iraq to Civil War

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Tim Howells Donating Member (224 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 02:05 AM
Original message
Robert Fisk: US Trying to Drive Iraq to Civil War
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2006/s1582067.ht...

Robert Fisk shares his Middle East knowledge
Reporter: Tony Jones
TONY JONES: Well, Robert Fisk is one of the most experienced observers of the Middle East and in his latest book, 'The Great War for Civilisation - the Conquest of the Middle East', he draws on almost 30 years of reporting from his base in Lebanon to look at the forces which have shaped current events and conflicts Robert Fisk, thanks for being there.

ROBERT FISK:
...



But certainly, somebody at the moment is trying to provoke a civil war in Iraq. Someone wants a civil war. Some form of militias and death squads want a civil war. There never has been a civil war in Iraq. The real question I ask myself is: who are these people who are trying to provoke the civil war? Now the Americans will say it's Al Qaeda, it's the Sunni insurgents. It is the death squads. Many of the death squads work for the Ministry of Interior. Who runs the Ministry of Interior in Baghdad? Who pays the Ministry of the Interior? Who pays the militia men who make up the death squads? We do, the occupation authorities.

...

I don't know if al-Zarqawi is alive or exists at the moment. I don't know if he isn't a sort of creature invented in order to fill in the narrative gaps, so to speak. What is going on in Iraq at the moment is extremely mysterious. I go to Iraq and I can't crack this story at the moment. Some of my colleagues are still trying to, but can't do it. It's not as simple as it looks. I don't believe we've got all these raving lunatics wandering around blowing up mosques. There's much more to this than meets the eye. All of these death squads that move around are part of the security forces. In some cases they are Shiite security forces or clearly Sunni security forces. When the Iraqi army go into Sunni cities they are Shiite soldiers going in. We are not making this clear. Iraqi troops, we've got an extra battalion. The Iraqi army is building up. The Iraqi army is split apart. Somebody is operating these people. I don't know who they are. It's not as simple as we're making it out to be.

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davidlynch Donating Member (461 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. I Trust Robert Fisk On This One n/t
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drduffy Donating Member (739 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 02:36 AM
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2. michael ruppert
also is of the belief that the 'insurgency' and the so called civil war is a oonstruct of the occupiers (the US and GB). This scenario really is the only one that makes sense.
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EC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 02:36 AM
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3. Where ever Negropointe, goes so do death-squads ... n/t
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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 02:44 AM
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4. All is going as planned. n/t
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wolfgirl Donating Member (950 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 07:10 AM
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5. Hmmm...
if thee is a civil war maybe the US is fueling it so we will be forced into keeping troops on the ground there.

If one was susceptible to tinfoil hat theories and didn't look to alternative news venues, one might not realize there already is a civil war going on. Continuing on in a tinfoil hat manner, since the US has already begun the building of large military bases, we will have the ideal spot to keep our troops ready and able to subdue the violence as long is it may take in.

I believe this administration capable of anything and everything despicable and evil.

:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Minnesota Libra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 07:57 AM
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6. Has anyone considered the fact that these squads are paid by......
.....neocons, either directly or indirectly, to push Iraq into a civil war, so the oil firelds and military bases can be installed right under everyone's nose?? :bounce: Neocons are working behind the scenes in this country, why not Iraq as well? :shrug:
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thebigidea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 08:06 AM
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7. "We don't hear of any suicide bombers being stopped before they"
"We don't hear of any suicide bombers being stopped before they blow themselves up."

Boy, he's got his finger on something here. You'd think they'd be doing all they can and trumpeting their victories like crazy. Instead they seem to be doing everything possible to ENCOURAGE it.
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CarlSheeler4U Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 08:19 AM
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8. Umm. That was done the moment we decided to stay post Saddam
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Monkey see Monkey Do Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:16 AM
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9. Daniel Pipes - Civil war is actually quite a good thing
TONY JONES: Can you explain to me how you could regard a civil war in Iraq as anything but a strategic disaster?

DR DANIEL PIPES: Well, let me start by emphasising that it it is a humanitarian disaster and in no sense do I want one to take place. It's a horrible prospect. Should, however, it take place I don't, think from the point of view of the coalition it is necessarily that bad for our interests.

TONY JONES: Can you tell us why you think that? And I suppose the broader question is do you think that other people, that people within the administration are thinking the same way?

DR DANIEL PIPES: No, I don't think they're thinking the same way because I think they aspire to create a new Iraq. I don't aspire to it. I think our coalition, Australian, American, British and other achievement was in getting rid of Saddam Hussein. This was an extraordinary development and wonderful for the Iraqis for the region, and for ourselves. That does mean that we're in a position to create a new Iraq, a free and prosperous Iraq. That is up to the Iraqis. No matter how many soldiers we put in, it will be the Iraqis who decide their future. We can help them with money, with soldiers, and other means, but it is they who make this decision. From that point of view, should there be a civil war in Iraq, there are various trends which will be disrupted, trends which I think are negative.

TONY JONES: Tell me what sort of trends you're talking about? Because I'm still struggling to understand how it would be anything but a strategic disaster.

DR DANIEL PIPES: Well, in the first place, there would be fewer attacks on our forces in Iraq as they fight each other. More broadly outside Iraq. There would be fewer attacks on us as the Shi'ites and the Sunnis attack each other. The imperative that the US Government, in particular, has been following would be shunted aside - an imperative which I think has led to negative results, because the victors in democracy, whether it be Afghanistan, Iraq, Lebanon, the Palestinian Authority, Saudi Arabia and Egypt, have in all these cases been our most extreme enemies - the Islamists. And I think as developments in Iraq slow down the democracy process, so it will elsewhere and we will be the better for it.

(...)

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2006/s1582736.ht...
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