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Cegelis vs. the Machine - By Cindy Sheehan

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Kevin Spidel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:27 AM
Original message
Cegelis vs. the Machine - By Cindy Sheehan
By Cindy Sheehan (original post on dkos: http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/3/3/143638/8463 )

March 3, 2006--I am beginning to wonder what it is that such "Democrats" like Rahm Emanuel (Illinois), Chuck Schumer (NY), and Nancy Pelosi (CA) are protecting in Iraq.

What is it that they have at stake in keeping the occupation of Iraq going?

Their constituents in every case are solidly anti-war and anti-Bush. They all come from the bluest of states and/or districts.

Yet when faced with the chance to defend and promote antiwar candidates who agree with the majority of Americans that it's time to get out of Iraq this year, they go into overdrive to try to destroy their candidacies. Take the case of Christine Cegelis .

Cegelis opposed the war before it started. She supports single-payer health care and a strong transition to renewable energy. She's pro-choice, and anti-CAFTA. And she has a strong grassroots following in her district. In short, Christine Cegelis is exactly the kind of candidate that the Democratic Party needs.

On top of that, in 2004 Christine took on the thankless task of running against arch-conservative Henry Hyde. You remember Henry Hyde--the man whose name is on key right-to-life laws, the man who led the impeachment fight against Bill Clinton, the man who now chairs the International Relations Committee in the House and routinely buries antiwar Democrats' attempts to investigate the lies that took us into the Iraq War that then took Casey.

Surprisingly, Christine racked up 44% against Hyde, despite being outspent by 4-1. She immediately announced that she would run again, and faced with her continuing strong grassroots opposition, Hyde decided to retire.

What was her reward for this service? Not an infusion of money to help her win an open seat against a former Tom DeLay aide--No! Instead, DCCC head Rahm Emanuel went out and found a candidate to run against her, a woman who did not even live in the district. Then, led by Emanuel, almost all the prominent Democrats in the country--John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, and many others--have weighed in on behalf of Cegelis' opponent.

The new candidate deserves our praise for her service. Like my son, she served her country, and paid a high price for her service--and for that I applaud her. Tammy Duckworth has served her country honorably in and out of the military and seems to be a good person. But here is her position on Iraq, straight from the conservative talking points:

"The fact is that we are in Iraq right now and we can't simply pull up stakes and create a security vacuum."

Duckworth is not a backer of setting a timetable in the Iraq War and getting out. And her lead sponsor is Emanuel, the man who infamously said, when asked about Murtha's effort to stop the war, that "At the right time, we will have a position."

Christine Cegelis is a true progressive on all the issues, and, here is her position on the illegal and immoral occupation of Iraq:

"The war in Iraq has taken the lives of more than 2,000 American men and women and killed and injured tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians. More than $200 billion tax dollars have been poured into the effort. Our credibility in the eyes of the world has been severely damaged. The Bush Administration's conduct in starting and executing this conflict has been a disaster from the very earliest stages.

"I have opposed this war from the start. But revisiting what brought us to this disastrous point does not solve the problem. It is time for us to bring our troops home. The Bush Administration must provide a comprehensive timetable for withdrawal of the majority of our combat troops at the earliest possible date.

"We must bring home our 46,000 citizen soldiers of the National Guard and Reserve home as soon as possible, where they can continue their lives as our police officers, our firefighters, our workers and our neighbors. The U.S. must spell out a reasonable and detailed plan to transfer power to Iraq's military and police forces.

"Defending our nation against the threat of terrorism is a top priority. The issues of Iraq and terrorism are now the same. Al-Qaeda had no link to Iraq before our invasion. Now it is a breeding ground for hatred and terror, and an ideal recruiting pool for Al-Qaeda and other terrorist networks.

"Extending the conflict in Iraq only gives terrorists more opportunities to foment hatred against America. Instead of lessening the threat of terrorism around the world, our war has accelerated it. We owe it to ourselves and the world to reverse this trend, and to use our foreign policy muscle to truly lessen the global reach of terror. A stable and sovereign Iraq can only occur when the U.S. becomes an ally, not an occupying force, and it is only then that we can rebuild trust in the Middle East and with the Islamic communities of the world.

"We need to let the Iraqis determine their own future. This means letting them run their own political process, instead of meddling in it for our own political gain. That also means pledging that we will not operate permanent military bases in Iraq and renouncing any claims to Iraqi oil. We need to make sure that the Iraqi people understand that we have no intention of permanently occupying their country. If the Iraqis want international peacekeepers, we need to work with them to make that happen.

"The U.S. also needs to immediately involve other countries in the effort to rebuild Iraq. Dozens of countries have a stake in creating a stable Iraq. The failures of this war must prevent the United States from making similar mistakes in the future. And the only way we can make sure that lesson is learned is to elect leaders who understand that lesson."

I agree with Christine Cegelis--we need our troops home as soon and as safely as possible. George Bush, the Republican Party and too many Rubber-Stamp Democrats have created a security vacuum in the Middle East and in our own country (does anyone remember Katrina and the devastation of the Gulf States?) And if we aren't careful to elect leaders who are strong on National Security by also being strong on diplomacy and peace, Iran and who knows where else is next.

As Iraq descends into a civil war prepared and propagated by the neocons with military bases and oil pipelines being constructed with very little reconstruction of Iraq's infrastructure, 82% of the Iraqi people want the occupation to end and 49% think it's just fine to kill coalition troops to do so.

Meanwhile, our own children and grandchildren will be paying for the leadership vacuum created by both of our major political parties. Bushco has put our country into deep and debilitating debt; they have made enemies for generations by their policies of terror; and we have lost and had maimed so much of our national human treasure. Bushco is spying on and imprisoning Americans and other members of humanity without due process and selling our security to the highest bidders.

In the 6th Congressional District of Illinois on March 21st, a hometown grassroots progressive is being inundated by the elite forces of the D.C. Democratic Party. She and her team are being outspent and out-advertised, with money pumped in from out-of-the-district. But Cegelis and her grassroots team are not being outworked; she has deep roots in the district, and has been runn ing nonstop for 3 years now, and she is determined to pull an upset against the Big Boys that are trying to keep the Democratic Party from responding to its antiwar base.

You can help. As I always say, it's not about "left and right." It is about "right and wrong." It's about good, not bad. It's about time to vote for peace.

It's about time for Congressional leaders like Christine Cegelis. www.cegelisforcongress.com
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tatertop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. Cindy got it going on
I am sending most of my money to Cindy
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Kevin Spidel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. via gold star, directly or her issues? n/t
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
3. Thanks for posting this Kevin.. kicked and rated up!
:applause: :applause: :applause:
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Kevin Spidel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. thx
i felt wierd posting it personally.. but saw no one on du cross posted it from kos... it is now on commondreams.org. felt the du'er should have a peek at it too. thanks!
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I rarely visit kos ... only when someone links something of interest
i don't know why, i just feel like kos is about supporting the status quo, i guess .. it just seems that way to me, anyway.... :shrug:
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Kevin Spidel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:54 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. well thanx for the k&r
lets hope it keeps kicked through the night.
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Ignacio Upton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
7. I have nothing against Duckworth
Edited on Sat Mar-04-06 12:55 AM by Ignacio Upton
and I don't see her as a "pro-war non-progressive" that SOME (only a few agitators) have characterized her as. However, I feel that Cegelis is getting a raw deal, and I don't like how several prominent Democrats are just lining up behind Duckworth. Duckworth is a strong candidate in her own right, that is true, but why do party figures feel the need to line up behind her so quickly. BTW, I should disclose that I am not consistent in a situation like this. For example, in my state of NY, I would support efforts to keep Tom Suozzi out of a primary against Spitzer, if only because of his ties to a prominent anti-Spitzer GOP donor, and the fact that his intentions in the race are just because he feels that I we doesn't run now, then he won't be able to in eight to twelve years. However, to me, Cegelis and Suozzi are apples and oranges. Celegis is a staunch progressive who did surprisingly well against Henry Hyde in '04, while Suozzi is taking money from Kenneth Langone, and trying to run for the sake of bloodying Spitzer and for ambition.
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Kevin Spidel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. they are raisings hundreds of thousand of dollars in the primary..
Edited on Sat Mar-04-06 01:00 AM by Kevin Spidel
to squash an already engaged base of support of democratic grassroots activists whom built a strong organization in two counties. it is a shame that they have to bring in the big names to raise the money against an established candidate to try to trump that base. democrats raising hundreds of thousands to take out a democrat with a base of support IS NOT what the future of the party should be.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
39. So you're saying that Duckworths people aren't "grassroots"?
Riight. How insulting to her supporters.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #39
52. She does not live in that district. Grassroots are in district.
.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #39
60. it's a small insult
she has very few supporters.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #39
75. Your position is like saying it was just as grassroots to support Humphrey
as it was to support McCarthy.

I mean, c'mon, there probably are one or two grassroots people who back Duckworth, but when you have virtually the entire
leadership of their party swaggering in and throwing their weight around, it ain't exactly William Jennings Bryan time anymore.

It's the heavyhandedness, stupid.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:10 AM
Response to Original message
9. Thanks for posting
:thumbsup:
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salukidem Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. the problem with Christine Cegelis is that she received fewer votes than
Kerry did in a very GOP district against an unpopular incumbant, not sure why anyone would think she'd do better this time around?
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I think I read 40%.
:shrug:

And for some people, it's not about the win - it's about the issues.
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salukidem Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. true that
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Welcome to DU!
:hi:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. That is such a sorry argument. Kerry was a prez candidate.
More people vote for prez than congress. That does not hold water.

This is such a sad situation.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Recommending this, Kevin. People don't know what is at stake.
Or else they do and don't care.
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loudsue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Copy that, Madfloridian....
This is getting at the heart of the DLC problem the Democratic party has going on. They are dictating where the money will go, and liberal Dems, like Kerry, aren't paying attention to the base. If Kerry hadn't listened to the DLC, he would have run a much better campaign.

DLC brings in a LOT of republican money to determine which NEW democrats get to either LOSE the race, or win the race and join the conservatives in voting against the people, and for the war machine/corporations.

It's a mess. But until we are free to vote and have it counted, we're in deep shit all the way around.

I'm going to vote, but I'll never have any way of knowing if it counts.

:kick: :kick: :kick:
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
41. That is such bullshit
Please prove where the DLC is involved. You have your tinfoil hat on too tight dear.
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RazzleDazzle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #41
71. Ah, well now, you may have a point there. Would you prefer
Clintonistas? Maybe that would be a better term for some of what's going on.

Look, the bottom line is this: it doesn't matter, really, whether or not the people involved are OFFICIAL members of the DLC, or whether their position is the OFFICIAL position of the DLC, it just matters that this is the kind of anti-democracy, anti-grassroots attitude and action that the DLC has been responsible for promoting within the party.

Getting rid of the DLC will not in and of itself rid the Party of this kind of shit, but it would help, as would getting rid of Clintonistas like Rahm Emmanuel who have gotten waaaaay too big for their britches and forgotten -- IF they were ever smart enough to know in the first place -- that it's the people they're in Congress to serve and represent, not themselves. Rahm has been throwing his weight around mercilessly in this new position of his, and it's quite unattractive.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #15
40. So you're going around and pushing out Duckworth makes it better
right?
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #40
49. Duckworth has the power behind her. She can not be pushed out.
The people backing her are the powers that be.
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RazzleDazzle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #49
72. but your forget something important and instructive
When Howard Dean won HIS current elected position, the powers that be weren't behind him either.

it can b e done. Difficult, takes a lot of work and more than a little luck, but it can be done.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
34. more people vote for prez than congress ????????????????
that's your counter argument?

it was the same election cycle! Kerry outpolled Cegelis in her own district by three percent. That means three percent of the people who voted for Hyde also voted for Kerry.

It's significant, and one of the main reasons the party is backing a different candidate.

Just saying, "That does not hold water", doesn't make it so...
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minvis Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. It's actually 1.9% difference
Here's the breakdown:

In Cook County (6th Congressional District)

Kerry: 27,838 (51.1%)
Bush: 26,687 (48.9%)

Hyde: 24,837 (52.2%)
Cegelis: 22,701 (47.8%)

In DuPage County (6th Congressional District)

Kerry: 104,546 (45%)
Bush: 127,981 (55%)

Hyde: 114,790 (56.7%)
Cegelis: 87,769 (43.3%)

Entire 6th Congressional District

Kerry: 132,384 out of 287,052 = 46.1%
Cegelis: 110,470 out of 202,559 - 44.2%

Also, remember that people tend to cross ticket the further you go down the ballot. Add to the fact that Hyde was a 32 year incumbent with high name recognition against a first time opponent, the difference is not very much.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #34
42. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
dansolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #34
54. Are you aware of the sample ballot controversy in 2004?
Henry Hyde had a lot of name recognition. The people living in IL-06 had less reason to vote against him than they did against Bush. Considering that Christine came out of nowhere and was able to get 44% of the vote is pretty impressive, especially considering that she got absolutely no support from the party. I am assuming that you don't live in IL-06. I do, and I'd like to tell you a little reported fact about that election. She managed to get 44% even though her name was left off the sample ballot that was printed in local newspapers. Most people weren't even aware that Hyde even had an opponent in the election.

http://vote2004.eriposte.com/bluestates/illinois.htm#20...
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #10
26. Another problem with Cegelis
is that she's pissed away all the funds she's raised so far before the election even started! Cegelis has just $39,363 in her warchest (and debts amounting to $39,179) because she pissed away the other $200,000 she raised, on nothing at all....No campaign commercials...no mailings....no primary election....no general election...no opponent...(Duckworth didn't declare until December 19, 2005)

http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/dcdev/forms/C00394007/...

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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #26
66. I knew Benchley would work in the "pissed away" slur again.
Edited on Sun Mar-05-06 12:41 AM by Ken Burch
nt.

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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. Yes, our resident expert on bodily functions has spoken.
At least he does have this one area of expertise. I feel I must bow down to the great wisdom and authority, the gravitas, if you catch my drift. It is overwhelming me with the deepest insights into the body politic. We would all be lost without this shining light. Oh, Great DLC, how could we almost forget to worship thee? Thank Goddess for the appropriately timed "pissed away" slur. Almost went astray, except for these comforting words.

:evilgrin:
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #67
70. I sure see enough mindless pissing and moaning
as well as lots of worthless shit from our "lefty left".....
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Cascadian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #70
78. It is so nice to see words from a conservative on DU.
:sarcasm: I guess you'll be our token Republican from now on.


John
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #78
82. Even funnier to see the drivel that passes for "left wing thought"
Edited on Mon Mar-06-06 09:46 AM by MrBenchley
And to watch our "progressive purists" fly into a rage whenever anyone opposes their lynch mob mentality....
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. And I notice Cegelis supporters have nothing worth hearing
except their complaint that it is somehow unfair to notice this.....
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #69
74. It's certainly pointless to obsess on it, when it may mean nothing at all.
And it does tend to sound like you're having a lot of fun verbally beating up on a progressive female candidate.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-06-06 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #74
81. Perhaps in fantasy land it means nothing at all....
But in reality it means quite a lot.

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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #10
28. Uh..
.... because the American public has turned DECISIVELY against the Iraq war since then? Duh.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
47. 40% against an entrenched incumbent who outspent her 4:1
on her first run for office is an AMAZINGLY good result.

Why did she poll less than Kerry? Perhaps it's because many voters pay attention only to the presidential race and go into automatic mode when it comes to the down-ballot races.

It does stink that the party is undermining this gutsy woman instead of seeing what she can do with national backing. She comes closer than anyone ever has to unseating Henry Hyde, and this is her reward?

I hope the voters of her district tell the national party where they can stuff their endorsements and cash.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. 44%.....she got 44% last time.
I can not believe the attacks here on Cegelis. Then they flip it and say it is Christine's supporters attacking.

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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Even more amazing!
When something like this happened in an Oregon state legislative race, the guy who had gotten votes in the 40's against a Republican incumbent ran again and WON his second time out, effectively flipping a formerly safe Republican seat.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
57. 44% and that unpopular incumbent is not a fair characterization
Henry Hyde is one of the most powerful Republicans in congress who has been there for decades. If the district weren't Republican he would still be difficult to beat because of seniority and name recognition.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
73. She was only slightly behind Kerry, and ran with no party support
Edited on Sun Mar-05-06 03:07 PM by Ken Burch
Because they declared the seat "unwinnable". Then they had the chutzpah to say they have to stop her because
she didn't do well enough to satisfy them.

And again, no one has shown a single poll showing Duckworth running a stronger race.
As the Cleland/Chambliss race showed, being a badly wounded war veteran is no
guarantee of victory in this country.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:25 AM
Response to Original message
17. They both support a phased withdrawal
Cegelis supports a timeline withdrawal while turning security over to Iraq. Duckworth supports a withdrawal based on ensuring Iraq security. There isn't a hairs difference between the two.

Tammyy lives 3 miles out of the district, so that's another red herring.

I don't blame Cindy, I'm sure she's been lied to by whatever group is behind all of this divisiveness, just like alot of other people have been lied to.

People need to ask themselves what the hell is really going on and who is really trying to turn Democrats against each other.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. Trying to provoke a fight "call me a liar"
I'm open-minded about this and I gave money to Tammy based on Kerry's email.

I'm not going to feel bad about supporting a Democrat. May the best woman win.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. What?
Saying somebody is lying to somebody is not against DU rules. And if you believe some of these things that are being said against Tammy Duckworth are true, then you're believing lies. It's as simple as that.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #31
55. how would you know?
and what is a lie, exactly.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #31
68. Yep, Cindy is just too dumb for this here politics.
You make me feel so sorry for her. I wish she could be real smart like you are. Only three miles outside the district. Why that's practically the same as being in the district. What a bunch of liars to make her tell a story like that. And she was dumb enough to repeat it. Poor, poor thang.

I'm glad to see some of the real Dems attack people like Cindy and call her a liar. She has done nothing but hurt the cause. She deserves to be called a liar just for mentioning the DLC without a loud cheer of approval.

Go, go, DLC. Rah! Rah!

NOT!!!
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #17
21. Yeah, I'm wary of this
I am far removed from this race so I am pretty objective.

I need alot more facts and a lot less emotion based commentary before I have an opinion. I have learned first hand that a lot of people who know very little of a situation will form erroneous opinions and promote them as fact. Folks who don't *really* know politics tend to get way too emotionally involved.

Good for you making a clear minded point. :toast:

Julie
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. Also the abortion issue
I saw a reference to her position on abortion that said she was a states rights person on abortion. What she said was that abortion, like the Schiavo end of life issue, are personal privacy issues and the federal government has no business involved in any of it. Far cry from states' rights. One thing can be a misunderstanding, but when the distortions start piling up, it's time to wonder what the heck is going on.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
51. Julie, to make one thing clear.
To most of us this is not at all about two women running in a race. It is about TPTB deciding in so many races, when good candidates are already there.

They are after two candidates here in Florida, at least two, who got DFA endorsements last time and did pretty well in very conservative districts.

There will be no party change if they just get to pick the candidates.

Just clarifying. I will have my say when they start this, since they are picking millionaire Republicans here in Florida to run against good Democrats whom they could support. They are using state machinery to do it also.
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immoderate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
56. That sounds different to me.
Cegelis wants a deadline. Duckworth wants to wait until Iraq is secure. What if it never is secure? :shrug:

--IMM
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 05:24 AM
Response to Original message
18. kick and recommended
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 06:55 AM
Response to Original message
19. Rally!!!
Everyone is invited to join Christine and a legion of supporters, friends, family members, volunteers, and (maybe) a surprise or two.

Come hear what Christine has to say as we head into the home stretch. Early Voting has started so this is a perfect time to ask her whatevers on your mind, or to find out how you can help. If you know anyone who hasnt decided yet, bring them along, too. And, of course, kids are always welcome. What better way to expose them to real Democracy than to let them see how real Democrats are working hard to take back our country? For more informations, call the campaign office: (630) 693-0500.
When: Mar 4 2006 - 10:00am
Where: Machinist Local Lodge 1487
Address: 50 W. Oakton Street, Des Plaines

http://www.cegelisforcongress.com/node/266

thank you cindy!!
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
23. Another outsider complaining about outsiders.
More name calling. Is that what "progressive" means? Seems more like hypocrisy and misleading.

Snip>But here is her position on Iraq, straight from the conservative talking points:

"The fact is that we are in Iraq right now and we can't simply pull up stakes and create a security vacuum."<snip

By her definition, these are "conservative" talking points. I know a number of liberals who feel the same as Duckworth.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. What do you know about this one?
"She immediately announced that she would run again, and faced with her continuing strong grassroots opposition, Hyde decided to retire."

What's the story in Illinois about Hyde's reasoning behind retiring? Did Cegelis have anything to do with it in your judgment?
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. Around 82 years old with 30 years in Congress.
I doubt he was scared, more likely tired. But these are the things legends are made of. Hype is more important than facts. The fact that Kerry had a 3% higher vote total in the District is deemed irrelevant as is the fact Cegelis lost.
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minvis Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #29
65. Wrong again!
Look at post #35 in this thread. The Kerry vote total was not 3% higher. Go ahead and say Kerry's vote total was higher. Fine, but get your facts right.
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #65
76. Your math is wrong in that post!
But I don't have a problem because the percentages are close. I'm quoting from a Chicago blogger who apparently rounded numbers if your figures are correct. Add all the Hyde and Cegelis votes, you have that wrong so I'm not sure of the rest nor do I care. The fact is she did not poll as well as Kerry. This would indicate there may be support for a Dem that Cegelis has not reached.
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minvis Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. The numbers are from the Board of Elections
for both Cook and DuPage Counties. I don't have the link handy, but I just googled it and added up the numbers.
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 07:54 PM
Response to Reply #79
80. Add the numbers, my calculator says 250,000+
The percentage looks about right though.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #27
62. he admitted it in an interview with the sun-times.
he is old and getting sick, it is true. but the nomination was certainly his to accept or decline, and he specifically cited the tough race he had had, and the fact that cegelis had announced that she would run again.
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-05-06 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #62
77. Here's my link, where's yours?
You and minvis disagree with what I wrote, which is what I've read on capitolfaxblog. You both may know more about the subject than Rich Miller but he gets published.
http://www.rcreader.com/display_article.php3?index=1&ar...
I would have to read the Sun Times article to know if those were Hyde's words or someone's speculation. I have read articles written before the '04 election where Hyde said it might be his last term.
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
24. Sounds like Cegelis is the recipient of a "Hackett job"
I don't have anything against Tammy Duckworth, either - except for the fact that she supports banning semi-automatics. I appreciate her sacrifice for her country, especially in a military action that most Americans now oppose.

But I can't help but feel that Duckworth is being used as a pawn against Cegelis. Sherrod Brown at least put in his time as a Congressman when it came down to his primary showdown against Paul Hackett, but it seems like the maneuvering in the "smoke-filled room" is more obvious in the Cegelis-Duckworth primary fight than in the Ohio face-off.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
43. Oh puleaze!
:eyes: Hackett backed down himself. He's a pussy and if Cegelis can't handle a primary she shouldn't be in politics either. Oh yes let's see. Someone decides to run because they're fed up with the leadership in Congress where it concerns Iraq (and other issues I'm sure) and they're automatically a pawn. Well if that was the case every single fighting democrat would be a pawn too including my district canidate and I'm sure he wouldn't appreciate being called a pawn. Give me a break! LOL!
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Are you the same FreedomAngel82 That gathers with us TruthSeekers?
i keep confusing your addy with someone else with a similar one that joins us hard core radical, lefties in malloy threads..

but you're no hard core radical lefty! so it must then be someone else! :hi:
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #43
63. tammy isn't pissed off about anything.
guess i'd be happy too, if all that money was rainin' on me. but she is a joke. fighting dem? ha. she spouts bush speak, and channels lbj. we will stand down when the iragi's stand up. ferchrissakes.
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formernaderite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
25. I seem to remember there was a gentleman also running in this
race, the party machine wouldn't back either. My memory is slipping, but I recall reading a piece some time back that he'd been working to build democratic party support in that district for years, and now has no viable "party" support to run for the seat. Cegelis sounds great, I'm always suspiscious of these "new" so-called super stars the DC bunch is trying to pawn off on us.
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dogman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. I'm always suspicious of posters who like to call elected Illinois
Dem Party leaders the DC bunch. As elected Senators from the State of Illinois, I respect Durbin and Obama's opinion more than a person joining "the cause".
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #25
44. Well gee did it ever back your mind
that maybe they didn't like them? They thought they were a weak canidate and did shit? If they do the work they can get people to rally around them all they want. It's a fucking primary. So where were you kicking and screaming when Paul Hackett got support from John Glenn, Max Cleland and Wesley Clark?
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #25
59. lindy scott
is a menonite (i think) preacher, and prolife. he has some following around wheaton college, where he teaches, but does not have much support besides that. most of the district has never heard of him.
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...of J.Temperance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
33. I only read this comment from Cindy, which put me off reading the article
Edited on Sat Mar-04-06 01:59 PM by ...of J.Temperance
I am beginning to wonder what it is that such "Democrats" like Rahm Emanuel (Illinois), Chuck Schumer (NY), and Nancy Pelosi (CA

Representative Emanuel, Senator Schumer and Representative Pelosi ARE Democrats.

Cindy Sheehan's opening sentence put me off reading the article. Cindy needs to stop hanging around with the Code Pink brigade and she needs to go to how she was originally when she began her campaign. Cindy has badmouthed Senator Schumer previously, I won't even mention her badmouthing of Senator Clinton and asking people to assist in defeating her re-election bid.

Cindy Sheehan should get on message again and say what she was saying originally, before Code Pink and the WSF got hold of her and started to manipulate her into broadcasting their agenda.

Tammy Duckworth will win, Senator Kerry, Senator Boxer and all rational Democrats know this. Cegelis cannot win.

On Edit: Since when was Cindy Sheehan a Democrat, criticizing my party is now a hobby to her. Oh I forgot, Cindy said she was a "Democrat" by threatening to run against Senator Feinstein and thus assisting in giving California a Repuke Senator.
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veness Donating Member (251 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
36. kick! n/t
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
37. I bet there is a Republican House Member retiring near her. She should run
It was probably a mistake to go for the Senate especially against a fairly popular Democrat, but the House now is another matter. Cindy is very bright, strongwilled, and is on a mission. She has had impact and will have more I am sure. She needs some Power now to help her/our cause. I bet she would win...
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
38. Question
where were you all screaming and whining when Paul Hackett got endorsements from Clark and Cleland? Were you screaming how unfair that was? Or how about when Al Gore came out for Howard Dean? And isn't she taking Kerry's Iraq plan and turning it into her own? You can support her all you want but I'm tired of how people get treated around here if you support an opponent of the person. Gee, aren't you people wanting primaries and to be able to choose who you vote for? But yet you want to push out the other person because you simply don't like them? How undemocratic and hypocritical.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #38
45. It's a House race?
Kerry is a senator?

I don't know. Maybe because it was done so obviously. And maybe this one got covered more by the media than the ones in Florida are.
They are not getting coverage at all.
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wndycty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #45
53. I'm waiting for an answer to this post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

Come on, you made the allegation answer the damn question. . .go right ahead answer the damn question.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. Not since I got tagteamed there. I don't respond well to orders like this
Sorry.
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LincolnMcGrath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #53
64. lol
And your OP was all about peace and harmony among opposing candidates members. Puh-Lease!
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-04-06 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
61. alright another illinois 6th flame war !
somebody wake up freddy! he`s missing out on all the fun! all of america revolves around the primary in the illinois 6th! hell it`s "nationwide".....well have fun folks in the 6th- i hope the knife wounds heal before the real election in nov comes around cause you are going to need every dam vote to beat whoever the rethugs run...me i`ll just vote for zamora and hope who ever wins can at least get close to fat denny...
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