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And the top 10 worst presidential blunders are...(CNN/AP)

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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:37 PM
Original message
And the top 10 worst presidential blunders are...(CNN/AP)
Edited on Sun Feb-19-06 01:40 PM by eppur_se_muova
***
The survey's top 10 presidential blunders were announced Saturday during a President's Day weekend conference called "Presidential Moments."
***
Scholars who participated said Buchanan did not do enough to oppose efforts by Southern states to secede from the Union before the Civil War.
***
The second worst mistake, the survey found, was Andrew Johnson's decision just after the Civil War to side with Southern whites and oppose improvements in justice for Southern blacks beyond abolishing slavery.
***
"We continue to pay" for Johnson's errors, wrote Michael Les Benedict, an Ohio State University history professor emeritus.
***
more at: http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/02/18/president.mistakes.ap/...

<editorial>First, the obvious comment. I am sure that by convention -- call it politesse, timidity, or necessary self-protection as you will -- the blunders of the sitting pResident** were not considered. This raises an obvious question: which of Bush**'s blunders should rank among the historical Top 10 Blunders? Note that the survey is not listed as "Top 10 Blunderers", but "Top 10 Blunders", so Bush** is certainly entitled to contend for more than one spot, indeed, overqualified. With Monicagate placing at No. 10, and being not very consequential for anyone but Clinton himself, there's lots of room for Bush** to get a trifecta or better.

Second comment: I haven't finished reading "The Stolen Election", so I can't say whether Rutherford B. Hayes should be in the running or not. Hayes (or possible others on his behalf) appears to have cut the necessary "deal" to end the contest by appeasing militant Southerners who wanted to return power to former Confederates, laying the groundwork for the Jim Crow laws and all the other evils of Southern segregation. This would be as serious as the charges leveled against Andrew Johnson. Unfortunately, I was just getting to this part of the book when I had to interrupt for other things, so I can't claim to be familiar with the details, and won't be deciding who to blame without them. </editorial>

edit to add link for book cited: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/ref...
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. where to begin?
i'll go with "refusing to cut short a photo-op when told 'the nation is under attack!!'"
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serryjw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Bush will become 1-10
when he leaves the presidency
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tecelote Donating Member (645 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Agreed.
Bush is the Worst Presidential Blunder.

But I think that they are referring to "elected" Presidents.
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. None of Bush's "failures" were blunders. All by design
9/11 - by design.

Iraq war WMD lies - by design

Failure to stabilize Iraq - by design


I could go on and on...
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unblock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. the worst "blunders" usually ARE by design.
the worst blunders result from miscalculations.

chamberlaine's "peace in our time" appeasement to hitler comes to mind. he did exactly what he set out to do, but miscalculated on hitler's cooperation and honesty.

shrub is similarly miscalculating our ability to succeed in the oil grab. thye are hoping that we can grab the oil, and with control of the world oil supply, it just won't matter how much the world hates us. but i think they miscalculated our ability to control the middle east through brute force. i hope they have also miscalculated their ability to control the american populus through media control.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
6. # 1 to me is Lincoln
demanding a quota of militia from each state to be used to put down the seven seceeded states in 1861.

Aside from the fact that the president calling forth the militia is blaantly unconstitutional, Lincoln's blunder forced the eight slave states which had not seceeded to choose sides.

Before Lincoln's call only South Carolina, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Texas had seceeded.

There were eight slave states which had not.

They were Virginia, Delaware, Maryland, North Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas and Missouri.

Of those Virginia, North Carolina, Kentucky and Tennessee were by far the most important because of their large populations.

Whether to secede or not was a hard call in all of those states, but without them the Confederacy would not be able to field an army that could challenge the USA. Of the seceded states, only Georgia had any appreciable population at all.

In fact, Tennessee had just held a special popular vote on whether to call a secession convention, and the vote was a narrow "no".

Then Lincoln makes in my opinion the biggest blunder that any president has ever made. He demands that each of those states provide troops for the invasion of the Cofederacy and gives each state a quota.

That forced each state to make up its mind. Tennessee quickly held another vote and voted 80-20 to leave the country. So did Virginia, and Arkansas and Noth Carolina went too. Kentucky declared its neutrality but along with Missouri had congressional representation in both countries during the war. Delaware stayed and Maryland called a meeting of the legislature but the pro-secession legislators were arrested which ended that problem.

Anyway, Lincoln's blunder turned the Civil War into our largest bloodbath.

Imagine a Civil War where Robert E Lee, JEB Stuart, Stonewall Jackson, Dick Ewell, Jubal Early, AP Hill, etc all fought for the Union? It would have been a much smaller and shorter war.

And by the way, what state lost the most men in the Civil War? North Carolina. The last state to join the Confederacy, thanks to Lincoln's Bush-like diplomacy.

I can't believe the historians missed this one which to me is the clear # 1.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-19-06 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. the absolute worst...
blunder wasn't even by a president. it was SCOTUS in 2000, which led to untold amounts of blunders.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 04:38 AM
Response to Original message
8. I call bullshit on at least the first two
Edited on Mon Feb-20-06 04:39 AM by Art_from_Ark
Short of calling out Federal troops, there wasn't a damn thing Buchanan could have done to have prevented secession, once Lincoln was elected on an anti-slavery platform without winning a single Southern state.

As for Johnson, have these guys never heard of Reconstruction? Johnson tried to take a conciliatory position toward the defeated South, and was given nothing but grief by the Radical Republicans, especially Edwin Stanton, who was probably the mastermind behind the Lincoln assassination. During Grant's term, the "Reconstructionists" were down South in full force ostensibly trying to right the wrongs of slavery, but achieving little for their efforts besides getting the white populations angry at the "carpetbaggers". The Radical Republicans allowed things to go to pot in 1876 when they agreed to end Reconstruction in return for being allowed to steal the Election of 1876 from the rightful winner, Democrat Samuel Tilden.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I kind of agree with you Art
that these ten choices don't seem to have a whole lot of thought behind them.

They kind of look like what a history teacher would tell you if you asked him to list ten at a party in less than one minute.

I was dissappointed.
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Yeah, I thought A. Johnson sounded funny.
I remembered the real reason for his impeachment was that he was seen as not vindictive enough toward the Confederate states. Also, I sort of got the impression that the real downhill slide took place after his term in office (only three years, he finished out Lincoln's 2nd term) was over.

Intersting entry in wikipedia; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Johnson looks like the impeachment was for violating a law set up by Congress precisely to stop Johnson from firing his Sec. of War (Stanton), and which was later ruled unconstitutional.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Those guys should read up on some local history from the era
Such as Arkansas' infamous "Brooks-Baxter War", an actual armed conflict fought in 1874 between two Republican gubernatorial candidates who were involved in what has got to be one of the most corrupt American "elections" of all time (setting the prototype for post-1998 elections):

http://www.oldstatehouse.com/general_information/histor...
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eppur_se_muova Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 11:43 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Thanks for the link.
Lots and lots of interesting things in the forgotten byways of American history.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Interestingly enough, Baxter, the guy who "won" the war
got a county named after him in the heart of the Ozarks. Today, Baxter County is prime bu$h country.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. You are right about Johnson
He wasn't seen as vindictive enough-- plus, he was a Southern DemocRAT from Tennessee trying to work against a tide of Radical Republicans. He inherited Stanton, wanted to get rid of him for any number of reasons, but Congress passed a law specifically to keep Stanton in office (which, as you mentioned, was later declared unconstitutional). When Johnson defied them, they started impeachment procedings. Although Johnson was not removed from office, his name was vilified.
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underpants Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-20-06 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
9. LOL*gulp* Bill didn't make the Top10?? Wow Fox News needs to know this
I actually saw this on Saturday morning flipping around and Fox&Friends had a story on it. I knew I should check out the actual report to what they said.....they ASSUMED that EVERYONE would list Clinton's Lewinsky affair as number 1 but no it was Buchanan...they went on to mention Clinton three times. Now on DU I read that Bill didn't even make the list although the CNN writing thought it was important to mention it.

Too sad and funny.
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NativeTexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
16. Hell if Bush isn't 1-5, then.....
.....there is no integrity in the choices.
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LetsGoMurphys Donating Member (564 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
17. Mission Accomplished has got to be up there
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-21-06 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
18. #1 presidential blunder was when Poppy Bush conceived Junior
That should've been one load that was swallowed.

sorry about that.
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