After weeks of coverage Dean only polling 20-25% of democrats. Red flag?

[MIMStigator]

Why is Dean still only getting 20-25% of democrats after all of the media coverage he had recently including the Gore endorsement?

Does it mean most of the other 75% of democrats are anti Dean but a weak Dean will win nomination and sink us?

[Jacobin]

1. Um, cause there are 9 other Dem candidates in the race?

Could that be it?

Ya think?

[Don Claybrook]

2. Um....no.

[pasadenaboy]

3. I have to hand it to you.

you have it all figured out. Being the frontrunner means you are a weak candidate.

[_Jumper_]

13. Compare the coverage the erstwhile Republican-lite Dean has received...

...from the corporate media with the coverage the other candidates have received. Then take a look at the polls.

The people have looked at Dean and they don't like what they see.

[Scott Lee]

16. You forgot the evil pod Aliens from Tau Ceti working for Dean

Don't forget the pod Aliens.

[burning bush]

41. YES! RED FLAG!

but not on Dean...at least not by your standards.

A Red Flag on every candidate that trails Dean.

All this time, and you can't get the attention of the Media?

All this time, and you are still getting your britches burned by the candidate you feel is in trouble?

Where does that leave you? What color flag do you deserve?

How about Green - for envy?

[RevolutionStartsNow]

4. LOL

No comment.

[slinkerwink]

5. ROTFLMAO

it's because of the spread of 9 candidates in the race.........

[molly]

34. Alrighty then!

[aquart]

6. No, it means they want their vote to decide it.

And not your presumptuous impatience.

[pinkpops]

7. issues, please

[Democrats unite]

8. Well to hear Dean Supporters here on DU

And with all the support being thrown behind Dean, You would think He would be so far out front there is no stopping him. But I don't see that, I wonder why? Maybe it's more wishful thinking than...

[_Jumper_]

14. It is because Al Gore and the corporate media has annointed the centrist..

...Dean the nominee.

[w4rma]

9. President Bill Clinton polled 4% or less in December, 1991.

…
"I remember back in December of 1991 when my husband was I don't think above 4 percent in the polls," said Clinton, speaking after a housing conference in Manhattan. "Through the months of the primaries and the caucuses, there was a hard-fought battle and it finally ended in June of 1992 when Bill clinched the nomination. He was running third behind President Bush and Ross Perot. So I want to see how the process plays out."
…
http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/politics/ny-nyhillvr3578212dec10,0,5762806.story

[HuckleB]

10. This one is indeed special.

Nine candidates, each one appealing to a different part of a big party. Hmm. Why would this be a red flag? Especially when the next closest candidate appears to be Lieberman, right now, and he's polling half of what Dean is...

[_Jumper_]

11. After shock and awe pro-Dean media coverage for months...

...he still does significantly worse than Clark against Bush! That should raise a red flag.

[PAMod]

17. They do about the same head to head against Bush.

[_Jumper_]

21. A recent poll found that Clark does 6 points better than Dean...

...against Bush.

[TLM]

18. Sour Grapes.

Not only sour grapes, but wrong as well.

Newsweek Poll
12/11-12/03
N=822 MoE ± 4

Bush beats Dean 49%-42%
" " Lieberman 51%-42%
" " Clark 49%-43%
" " Gephardt 51%-40%
" " Kerry 51%-41%
" " Edwards 51%-40%
Re-elect Bush? 45%-50%

[pruner]

19. how about posting a…

[jonnyblitz]

27. ummm....PRO-Dean media coverage?

He is getting SLAMMED from every direction 24/7. I must have missed this PRO stuff. :crazy:

[dfong63]

71. after months of being team-bashed by the other candidates,

Dean's still out in front. that should be a red flag on the other candidates.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

12. Yes Doctor is doing so bad he otter drop out now

before he gets worse and falls
even further ahead.

[TLM]

23. LOL!!! Spot on...

What is it about some folks in our party... it is like they want to lose.

Yeah lets all gang up on the guy who is running the strognest grassroots campaign in history and is running on the platform that we've been saying we want a democrat to do for years.

As someone else said, CLinton was polling 4% at this time in his first run... and that wasn't in a 9 way primary.

Dean is shaping up to be the strongest candidate this party has ever run.

[Scott Lee]

15. Many of you have Frontrunner Envy.

But hey, sometimes a cigar IS just a cigar. Need a light?

[Jerseycoa]

25. Heh

I have frontrunner envy, I admit it.

[Bucky]

37. Damn your accuracy, Scott Lee. I'll get you yet. Bwa-ha-h-*cough,cough*

Sadly, you're right. But please don't judge all us Clarkies by the calibre of posting some of the general's supporters. Ninety-nine out of 100 of us are sane, huggable, and ready to lose the Chimp.

[Scott Lee]

50. And I salute you Bucky - even if you do wanna get me!

Thanks for reminding me that the bulk of Wes Clark's supporters are sane, bright people (which they are). Clark has always been, and remains, my second choice. No bitter opposition here.

[LosinIt]

20. Because Dr. eats fluffy little kitties, with fava beans and a fine chianti

And I heard he also likes to torture puppies. Come on, get over it. Can't you see the big picture, let's pull together instead of tearing each other apart.

[gulliver]

22. We need an instant run-off poll.

As you imply, the plurality-based polls are giving us a false positive on Dean, IMO.

[dobak]

56. that would be interesting to see....

I am very curious where the supporters from Kerry/Edwards/Lieberman/Gephardt would switch too if their candidate dropped out

[sendero]

24. this is another great thread....

.... for me to POOP on!

[deminflorida]

26. It means that Iowa, New Hampshire mean nothing this year.....

I can't recall anytime in history when there have been so many candidates running for President. It means that the race will be decided after all the states vote in the primaries, and that's it...

I really don't think that front-runner this year is anything more than the kiss of death as far as campaigns go, but how could Howard Dean have done anything about that? The guy comes from being a little known governor from a small north-eastern state to the front-runner in the democratic race for president. How did he get here, he was the one guy who had the courage to call Bush on the war in Iraq while establishment politians and Al Gore, (the one guy everyone looked to for leadership) were esentially abandoning the wishes of the democratic electorate. But bear in mind, Howard Dean was and still is in many voters minds that little know governor from Vermont.

Most Americans don't keep up with politics, this is a known fact. And if they do, most don't openly voice their opinion any more. If Bush and Company have accomplished anything in their three years in Washington it has been to control the media and to effectively lable people who openly voice their opinions against them or their policies as either Un-American or Un-Patriotic. Therefore do polls accurately display the opinions of the American electorate...I don't think so.

Nope, not this year...this year a complete picture of where all democrats stand on the issues based on regional interests, special interests, and culture will be painted during the primaries. And the painting won't be complete until the voting is finished. Oh and don't be surprised if what you see is an abstract.

[Gloria]

43. Remember that his "courage" came from the fact that he had very little

to lose since he wasn't in a position where he had to cast a vote on the record....

Kucinich is probably the most courageous....he had to vote.

[juajen]

66. I agree, Gloria

Kucinich amazes me, he is so brave. I have such a hard time deciding between Kucinich and Clark, I've just decided to support them both and see where it leads me on voting day. They're both great.

[arewethereyet]

28. lack of resonance and too much competition

its still a little early for a real front-runner but that is a low number. He is a big hit with some and a biger turnoff for many others which explains somewhat low numbers. Gore may not have helped.

Lets not get too excited till Feb. If its not 55+ then its a problem.

[Murky Waters]

29. Um... like

Um

What a great word. I just had to join in and use it. As far as condescending goes, it is waaayyy better than the multi-sylabic duh.

But more to the point of your question, he has 25% because he is leading a pack of 9.

So with 9 guys up there dancing on the stage, one in 4 audience members judge Dean the best. Not bad at all.

It will be interesting to see how the support unfolds if the field narrows anytime soon.

[Sean Reynolds]

30. See this happens when you're running against 8 other people.

I believe Dean's lead will grow when candidates drop out.

[Scott Lee]

51. Yep. Remember "Clinton never got a majority vote"?

It's amazing how many times I had to educate these (rightwing) clowns on what a plurality is.

[tritsofme]

31. In January of 1992...

Next, I will read off the names of six Democratic candidates for president. After I read all six names, please tell me which ONE you would like to see nominated as the Democratic Party's candidate for president. Jerry Brown, Bill Clinton, Tom Harkin, Bob Kerrey, Paul Tsongas, or Douglas Wilder?
Mean: N/A Total N: 4852


% N

1.00000 Jerry Brown 19.96 968

2.00000 Bill Clinton 14.66 711

3.00000 Tom Harkin 7.28 353

4.00000 Bob Kerrey 9.53 463

5.00000 Paul Tsongas 5.33 258

6.00000 Douglas Wilder 7.71 374

7.00000 OTHER (VOL.) 2.72 132

8.00000 DON'T KNOW 30.92 1500

9.00000 REFUSED 1.89 92

[tsipple]

32. What had just happened in January, 1992?

Gennifer Flowers had her press conference is the answer.

Of course Bill Clinton took a hit in the polls at that time.

[tritsofme]

33. Most people thought he was treated unfairly

Question: qn9 Field Date: 1/28/1992-1/28/1992
Do you think the news media have been fair or unfair in their handling of charges of marital infidelity made against Democratic presidential candidate Bill Clinton?
Mean: N/A Total N: 687


% N

1.00000 Fair 30.83 212

2.00000 Unfair 58.16 400

3.00000 DON'T KNOW/REFUSED 11.02 76

[PatrickS]

35. Bwahahahahahahaha!!!

Paging Einstein!

:evilgrin:

[Cheswick2.0]

36. why do 93 percent of Democrats not support Clark?

?

[Bucky]

38. why do 99.8 percent of Democrats not support LaRouche?

Huh? Huh? Well, huh? Why is that? You wanna tell me that, do ya? Huh? Do ya?

[Cheswick2.0]

73. yup, makes no sense does it?

Dean has the biggest numbers, but supporters of other candidates who are falling in the polls want to know why Dean is not "doing better". It's just silly. Who came up with this brain dead talking point anyway? Clark should fire that person.

[wiley]

39. Uncalled For

Why the need to bash Clark? It's Dean supporters like you who may actually just be posing as Dean supporters. If not, you really need to let it go already.

[Cheswick2.0]

72. What? you are kidding right?

laughing here!
:eyes:

[arewethereyet]

40. seems reasonable to me

plenty to not like, particularly his prospects in the General Election. You will note that a General Election does not specifically elect generals.

[texas is the reason]

45. lol! good one!

"a General Election does not specifically elect generals"...

[shivaji]

42. After months of campaigning, Clark is polling ONLY 10%

according to todays poll numbers. In fact, Dean is in mid-20's and ALL OTHERS are barely scratching 10%.

The election of 2004 should give the voters a clear choice.
There is no doubt whatsoever that Dean affords the voters a
TOTAL CONTRAST over the current occupant.

Repug lites such as Gep, Clark, Kerry and Edwards will never win any converts from the other side. Our most revered president Truman said so...that given a choice between a reublican and a republican lite, the republicans will vote the republican everytime.

[slinkerwink]

44. exactly.

[mikehiggins]

79. You are kidding, right?

After months of campaigning?

Dude, Howard Dean started running in 2000 and he hasn't stopped yet.

Do you think he suddenly appeared in a beam of light, rising on a seashell out of the foam? He's a politician who has been in politics most of his life and who has essentially been running for President since the current pResident was sworn in. He's been in campaigns, he's found the "hot button" issue that generated volunteers and donations, and he dominates press coverage on a regular basis. He's even been endorsed by the man who actually won the 2000 election and a whole slew of other big names.

Clark enters the race three months ago with no preparation, no staff, no money, is mocked and slandered on the cable networks when he isn't ignored entirely and is currently polling at 10%

You guys have no concept how strange that is. Sure, Bill Clinton was at 4% at this point, but he'd been running most of his life. Being elected President, or even running for any office, was mostly the last thing on Clark's mind.

The Clark Campaign is making political history in a very quiet way and if he keeps up plodding along he may make even more history by beating Dean for the nomination, and then Bush in November

And if not, he'll probably still find it easier to get Madonna's autograph than any of the rest of us will ;^)

Third in New Hamphire; the White House in January 2005

[MIMStigator]

46. Level of denial about Dean is going to give us 4 more years of *

Dean campaign never addresses the arguments they just pretend they don't exist or make sense

[LuminousX]

49. So the vast number of Dean voters should do ... what?

You want people to just shut off their loyalty? Why not have the other campaigns ramp up and show me that they are worth voting for?

[MIMStigator]

52. Vote on who will win not who you like best

yes, they should shut off their loyalty to any candidate and pick the one who will WIN...... because loyalty isn't going to be much good when we lose.

[LuminousX]

58. How do you know who will win?

What magic powers do you have?

[MIMStigator]

61. No you don't need magic powers to know that Dean or Nader can't win

Dean is too much of a lightweight for what the repukes are going to do in 2004 especially after saddama bin laden capture.

[LuminousX]

63. Your opinion. I'm not switching support based on your opinion.

There is no hard evidence or even good logic to indicate Dean can't win against Bush, especially since he is polling so strongly across the nation.

At the end of the day, your efforts are pointless. You are better off trying to convince Kerry and Kucinich supporters to back Clark now before the primaries. That way Clark can garner the support to actually get the nomination without having to beg for it to be handed to him.

[MIMStigator]

65. Some Dean supporters will convert

I did.

but agree Kerry and Kucinich and Lieberman ought to drop out and endorse Clark

[LuminousX]

68. Then that should be your message. Kerry voters - Vote Clark Instead

And yes, if Clark wins the nomination, Dean voters will vote for him for President. No worries there.

I for one want him as far from the Oval Office as possible, yet will still work for him to be elected over Bush.

[MercutioATC]

70. What shite...Kerry and Kucinich and Lieberman supporters should support

Kerry, Kucinich and Lieberman. Nobody should "drop out" now. All of the candidates have some valid views that need to be heard.

[Scott Lee]

53. Hang our heads and pretend Dean isn't in the lead, I guess

Clearly, some Democrats do not want us to field our most popular and well funded candidate against Bush. Apparently we have too many votes, and don't need all this support for dumping the Chimp.

Aint that a kick?

[MIMStigator]

55. popular and well funded with democrats only isn't going to win 2004

the most popular democrat with the base can be the WORST choice for the general election. How many times do we need to learn that lesson?

[LuminousX]

59. How do we know he is the worst choice?

Voodoo? Crystal Ball? John Edward?

[MIMStigator]

60. Hints like the fact he is still only getting 25%

after so much press and Gore endorsement

[LuminousX]

62. That is meaningless, there isn't a historical comparison

With 9 candidates still in the field, 25% is magnificent. Talk to me about it when it is narrowed down to 4. But then if he is just gettig 25% with 4, that only mean he is equally unpopular to the rest.

[MIMStigator]

64. 25% isn't magnificent if .........

you figure most of the supporters of the other candidates support them because they like someone more moderate or with a military background, OR if you consider all the press Dean has been getting and the Gore endorsement.

[LuminousX]

67. You have no basis for that analysis

That is pure supposition. Work out the hypothetical and let's test it in the laboratory of history. Until then, it is just an opinion.

[dansolo]

47. And how many Democrats are anti-Clark?

By your logic, something like 85% of democrats are anti-Clark. Doesn't that make Clark an even weaker candidate? I'm not making that argument, only pointing out the glaring flaw in your logic.

[_Jumper_]

54. Clark has not received saturation media coverage

That is the difference. The people have not had a chance to look at Clark's views yet.

[MIMStigator]

57. If the saturation were equal, Clark would be ahead

if Clark and Dean were the only candidates Dean would be blown away. Most of the supporters of the other candidates would be supporting Clark.

[LuminousX]

48. 75% anti-Dean? Wrong.

There are many people who support a few candidates ahead of Dean, so when they are polled, they state that name. That does not mean that they will not vote for Dean. The logic of the original post is faulty.

[unfrigginreal]

69. By your standards 90% of Dems anti Clark

even after the coronation that the media gave him in Sept. and the media blitz he ran a few weeks ago.

[Gman]

74. 80% of the party doesn't want Deankakis

why doesn't he just drop out?

[indigo32]

76. How much of the party wants Clark??????

should he drop out too?

[MIMStigator]

78. If he gets as much press as Dean it will be over 50%

Clark is not as known as Dean. If it comes down to Clark against Dean, Clark will blow him away. Clark is heavyweight, Dean is lightweight

[indigo32]

75. Sigh

how many times a day is this kind of thing gonna have to be posted? You're only about the 1000th person to post something like this.

Obviously we haven't come together yet...we've got 9 candidates, but we WILL, at least I hope we will.

[jpgpenn]

77. Not just coverage, PUMPING UP...

is more like it!