Senator Blutarsky rallies the troops before the SOTU.

[KnaveRupe]

D-Day: War's over, man. Wormer dropped the big one.
Bluto: Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
Bluto: And it ain't over now. 'Cause when the goin' gets tough...
(thinks hard)
Bluto: the tough get goin'! Who's with me? Let's go!
(runs out, alone; then returns)
Bluto: What the fuck happened to the Delta I used to know? Where's the spirit? Where's the guts, huh? "Ooh, we're afraid to go with you Bluto, we might get in trouble." Well just kiss my ass from now on! Not me! I'm not gonna take this. Wormer, he's a dead man! Marmalard, dead! Niedermeyer--
Otter: Dead! Bluto's right. Psychotic, but absolutely right. We gotta take these bastards. Now we could do it with conventional weapons that could take years and cost millions of lives. No, I think we have to go all out. I think that this situation absolutely requires a really futile and stupid gesture be done on somebody's part.
Bluto: We're just the guys to do it.
D-Day: Let's do it.
Bluto: LET'S DO IT!!

The SOTU is going to be a bullshit-o-rama of epic proportions. We need to be on our game, folks. There is a seductive appeal to the Medical Savings Accounts that are going to be trotted out tonight, and everyone on the left is missing it. We are going to get our clocks cleaned on this one unless we step up. Start doing your research on these sonsabitches now. We need to be loaded for bear.

Examine how they (supposedly) work, and start getting your arguments in a row... this is more subtle and devious than the ham-fisted attack on Social Security last year. I have yet to hear a decent rebuttal for when some RW jackass in your workplace starts advocating that the HR department scrap your current Health-care plan and move toward these... This fight needs to be won at the watercooler. Now let's get out there and kick their asses, DU!!

Who's with me?

[Gman]

1. I usually say

"So you want to pay more out of pocket just because you can take it off your taxes? That makes it OK? Please make me understand why!"

[KnaveRupe]

2. You will get smacked down.

The way it will be sold to the EMPLOYED, CURRENTLY INSURED masses is as follows:

"Right now, the company is paying a large amount for your insurance, and if you don't get sick, you get no return on that money. Poof, it's just gone.

With an HSA, instead of giving all that money to the insurance company, we deposit it into a tax free savings account for you. If you don't get sick, you get to keep that money! If you do get sick, you use that money to pay the deductible on the low cost-high deductible insurance we carry on you! If you get sick, you pay nothing more than you are paying now, since the company gives you the money to cover the deductible. If you DON'T get sick, you get to keep a ton of money!"

THAT is the argument you need to be prepared to fight.

[Crankie Avalon]

6. "All you need to do is never, ever get sick...

...and, hey, when someone DOES somehow go ahead and gets themselves sick, whose fault is that?

[Gman]

9. You're talking to an old union rep. I don't get smacked down

I smack back harder!

And I respond with, "You're in this to make a living, and have benefits for your family, right? You're working to feed your family and you want to be able to take them to the doctor when they need it, right? You have your own interests just like this company has their own interest, right? You are NOT this company. The shareholders ARE this company. You are nothing but an entry in a database that produces and your purpose here is to increase shareholder wealth. Do you think this company cares about you? Do you think the shareholders give a fat rat's ass about whether you can afford medical care for your family? Your family members are all shareholders in the wealth of your family. You want to increase their wealth, right? Something is going to give way here. Either the company is going to increase their shareholders' wealth and decrease your family's shareholder wealth by shoving this down your throat or we're not going to take it and we're going to fight back. Why are you arguing that the wealth of the shareholders is more important and more valueable than the shareholder wealth of your family members in your family? There's lots of things we can do to fight this."

[KnaveRupe]

11. Amen, Union brother, but you're missing my point.

They aren't going to ramrod this down the workers' throats - they are going to sell this to workers by appealing to their greed.

I work in municipal government (Woo, AFSCME!!), and our city is facing bankruptcy. For the first time ever, our bargaining unit has been forced to make payroll contributions to health-care "just like real people in the private sector!" Right now, it's costing the City around $9,000 annually per AFSCME employee for a PPO plan, and the costs are continuing to rise.

So far, the powers that be haven't tried to sell us on this, but there are rumblings from some of the few dittoheaded kool-aid drinkers that we should go with these HSA's. The argument is that it will cost the City less per employee, and that employees will get to keep whatever portion of the money in their HSA isn't used for out-of-pocket expenses (which are limited to the high-deductible amount on the policy).

We don't need to convince people that they CAN fight these, we need to convince them that they WANT to fight these. We need to have good arguments for exactly WHY these are a bad idea, and those arguments have to be compelling enough to offset the "dangling carrot" aspect of these plans.

Glad to hear that you smack back harder - we need a lot more of that! :)

[Gman]

15. Ok, here's the deal

Granted there are an increasing number of ditto heads that are too stupid to understand that they are listening to the RW talking points to the detriment of their own welfare. I would suggest getting with your AFSCME staff rep to see what kind of research is available from the national union. Rest assured they have already researched the hell out of this and have a lot of material available for you to use.

Yes, you get to keep the money that's in the account (they paid into it, it's their money), but do they understand that they can't touch it without paying tax on it? It is all pre-tax money (i.e. no withholding taken). Do they understand that all they're doing is "deducting" the medical amount from their taxable income a little bit each week and saving a few dollars (and I mean a FEW dollars) on withholding tax each week rather than deducting all their medical expenses on April 15 and reducing the amount of taxes they owe for the year? It is a no brainer that, at best, it doesn't make any difference on their tax return on April 15 whether they have an account set up but that on the other hand, it gives the OK to raise deductibles and DISGUISING IT with these stupid accounts. The bottom line is you are all going to pay more out of pocket whether you pay it with pre-tax dollars or pay it straight out of you fully taxed paycheck and deduct the amount you spend at the end of the year.

Secondly, have they calculated exactly what the impact will be on their own personal taxes? With the help of the national union and knowing what the wage scales are there, you should be able to work up something saying someone making this much money in this payscale with this many dependents would have this much money in their account.

Are these guys 20-something? Yeah, we were all bullet proof and made of steel back then. Those types are often the most greedy. I recently saw a near riot by a bunch of 20-somethings in one bargaining unit because they didn't get the raises they wanted but a benefit package that's probably one of the best in the country. They need to be told to grow up, act mature, start acting responsibly and think about their future and the future family they will one day have. Ridicule them for this. Ridicule them and make them feel like the spoiled brat they are. Talk down to them and act like their opinion is just coming from a spoiled brat that has had everything handed to them. Act like someone has to be responsible and take charge of this issue and it sure as hell isn't them because they only think of theirself. Ridicule them relentlessly. NOW... be funny about it, act like you're ribbing them or giving them a hard time to cut the tension. But give them a hard time and ridicule them for being an irresponsible and spoiled brat.

[Coexist]

12. Oy - my husband's company started one of those "savings accounts"

where they take money from your check, pre-tax, and you send in your co-pay receipts and stuff and they send you the check.

UGH! It was hellish trying to get back MY money that I SPENT on valid medical expenses. Hours of faxing and calling.

"well, you faxed the receipt, but the EOB was what was required", "I have the EOB, but I need the receipt."

It was sooo frustrating. If I paid myself $10 per hour for doing the paperwork and making the phone calls, we lost money.

No, thank you. Please don't try to save me any more pre-tax $.

[fasttense]

3. If Americans currently have a negative savings rate, the worst savings

rate since the Great Depression, how in the hell are they going to be able to save enough for medical costs????????????:dunce:

[KnaveRupe]

4. It will be payroll deduction like an IRA.

Or, for larger companies with current coverage and unions, it will be paid directly by the employer in lieu of their current coverage premiums.

Trust me - you need to research these plans BEFORE you get into a scrap about them. I nearly got my clock cleaned by someone who was advocating for these. And if you do the research AFTER you lose a fight on these, it will be too late.

[zippy890]

5. bush has zero credibility on this stuff

people don't trust him for good reason

social security 'reform' disaster

katrina federal f**k up

medicare prescription drug fiasco

SSDD

[ComerPerro]

7. I've already seen the State of the Union Address. It's quite lame

How, you might ask, do I have knowledge of a speech that hasn't been given yet, one that probably isn't even in its final draft?

Simple.

I've seen and/or read at least 5 minutes of at least 10 other Bush speeches.

They are all the same. Exactly the same.

Sometimes he steps it up for the SoTU by throwing in a few new lies, ones that are on a more grand scale, but its usually just the same shit.

I will post for you a passage from tonight's speech. Remeber, this is a direct quote, not a paraphrasing or summary:


"September Eleventh. Iraq. Election. Saddam Hussein. Terrorism. Al Qeada. Health Care. Health Savings Accounts. Rape Rooms. 9/11 changed everything. Torture. Terrorism. Terrorism. 9/11. Saddam Hussein. God. Jesus. Terror. Job Growth. Responsiblity. Compassion. Torture. Terrorism. Saddam Hussein. Iran. Sadam Hussein. 9/11. Iran. 9/11. Iran. Terrorism. 9/11."

That's your speech, right there.

[LiberalEsto]

8. I watched that part of "Animal House" last night on tv

I was flipping channels, looking for something to temporarily take my mind off the shock and disappointment of the cloture vote in the Senate.

I happened upon that very scene - where the Delta House gang is sitting around in shock, and Bluto stands up to rally the troops.

It seemed like a good omen.

Now let's see, we could use a welding torch, an old car, and enough decorations to make a giant birthday cake float that says "Eat Me". I live about 18 miles from downtown Washington DC, and tonight is the Misstate of the Union.

It is amazingly soothing just to picture the chaos of "Animal House" homecoming parade meets State of the Union.

If only. But we can dream.

[mikeytherat]

10. "I'd like 10,000 marbles, please."

mikey_the_rat

[Lugnut]

13. No argument needed.

It's very simple. Before you can set up one of these "medical savings accounts" you need to have $$$$$. People who are struggling to put food on the table, a roof over their heads and enough gas in their cars to get to work can do the math. It doesn't compute.

I agree with you on the Bullshit-o-rama. It will be a command performance.

[Cleita]

14. Also, they need a job. What if they become one of the millions

who have already lost their jobs to downsizing and outsourcing? Have they thought of how they are going to put money into these savings then?

Also, a trip to the hospital for a severe unexpected illness or injuries from an accident, that isn't covered by other insurance like car insurance or worker's comp, can cost an average twenty-five thousand dollars out of pocket. (This happened to an uninsured friend of mine.)Would they have enough saved for this?

If they are too ill to work anymore, like dying from cancer or end stage renal disease, how are they going to save more, when they have depleted their savings account and still need more medical care?

Universal single payer health care is the way to go. We need to get the for-profit insurance companies and HMO's out of the business. Let them go back to catastrophic insurace coverage, where they belong.