Cindy Sheehan is an idiot for meeting with Chavez

[still_one]

It shifts focus away from the real fight, to get our troops out of Iraq, and this will be used against our cause.

She obviously believes that she is more important than the cause, and has lost the initial support I had for her because of this distraction

I am getting so tired of the extreme left and the extreme right in this country

[Lerkfish]

1. wow. like it matters. Can't you find someone else to hate?

on a day like today?

[tsuki]

5. Well said.

[still_one]

7. watch everything self-destruct, and how this will be used against us

say what you want, but the same shit happened when fonda went to north viet nam

this will be used against us in the 2006 elections. It is a gift for rove

Incidently, what do you mean on a day like this? Are you referring to the filibuster? I have been doing my part, or is it something else that has happened?

[oblivious]

75. Your attempt to associate Chavez + 1972 Vietnam is a shameful tactic.

The US is not at war with Venezuela. Venezuela is not an enemy. But you're trying hard to make it seem so with these cheap tactics.

[dogman]

83. No, he's pointing out the obvious.

The Conservative Corporate Media has made Chavez the enemy and just as Fonda regrets letting herself be used as propaganda, Cindy likely will too. It isn't about what is right or wrong, it's all about getting your message to the most people in the most positive framing. Those of us who are for peace aren't going to be affected either way. The majority that we need to accomplish it are what matters.

[still_one]

92. Thanks, that is exactly what I was expressing

I am expressing my frustration because I know what is going to happen

We can sprout all this idealistic B.S., but it won't mean sqwat if we can't get control of Congress, and convience others

People can flame me all they want, but we obviously haven't learned a thing from the last 13 years

They went after Clinton because he put himself into a situation that was used against us, and now that they control the two branches of government, with the third in danger, we have to recognize it even more

[still_one]

93. It isn't me, but the perception

If you fall into the trap, then their will be a lot more pain that we will be going through before this is all over

[Just Me]

101. But,...the "perception" is total bullshit,...a RW delusion.

We have GOT to bust up those bullshit "perceptions" because THEY ARE FALSE!!!

It is time to stand up for what is REAL.

Don't you agree? :shrug:

[AZBlue]

102. Since she's in the news today, it does matter. A lot. (nt)

[The Magistrate]

2. She Is An Amatuer, Sir

We on the left need to learnm the benefits of focus....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[still_one]

12. I agree, but this will be the distraction they desire

Why did I bring it up? Because it was thrown in my face today. I didn't even know about, and could care less, but I am NOT the typical American.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. Thank God for the Amateurs. They're a helluva lot better than the pros.

And, infinitely better than the politicians.

[The Magistrate]

60. There Is An Old Saying, Sir

"Professionals are predictable. Amatuers are dangerous." It cuts both ways, as it is hard to predict the direction of the danger the latter can present....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

70. But, we do know, sir, that politicians are imminantly predictable.

And, we also know that they will always work to protect their lofty positions even if it means war. I give you a long list of wars planned, waged, and "lost" or "won" by "professionals" as evidence. From the Punic Wars to Iraq.

[arcane1]

3. Sheehan is the extreme left now?

:shrug:

[Just Me]

104. No. Cindy is a caring and concerned human being.

The fascists would call that "extreme left". All other NORMAL people call that,...wonderful.

[tsuki]

4. Cindy Sheehan is Cindy Sheehan, private citizen. And you are

not her social director. If she wants to meet Chavez, that's her biz.

[Disturbed]

8. Cindy Sheehan is not a representative of the...

Dem Party. No matter what she says or does the Neo Fascist Regime in power over Amerika will never give up any power or withdraw from the Occupation of Iraq or Afghanistan.

[still_one]

15. but they will use this as part of their propaganda

and the MSM will perpetuate it

Watch it gain legs after the state of the union

especially if * screws up

It is a perfect distraction

[tsuki]

31. Yes, they will. But she, or I, or anyone, should live our lives as

PRIVATE citizens according to what the Beltway Bullies and the Payola Pundits want? Conform-conform-conform. No Thank You.

[still_one]

10. It isn't me, it is what the media will make of it

I remember viet nam. You watch, it isn't what I think it is what the majority of the people here will think

as far as a private citizen, that is now in the past, because she is allowing herself to be used by a foreign power publically

Incidently, I am not against Chavez, he is doing what he has to for HIS COUNTRY

[tatertop]

6. Cindy Sheehan would have fillibustered!

[saltpoint]

9. I would say instead that George Bush is a coward for NOT meeting with him.

I'm not disputing your point for its own sake but just suggesting that at least Cindy Sheehan gets along with human beings, unlike our insecure and bullying president and his filthy gang of corrupt monsters.

[Judi Lynn]

78. Bush ISN'T afraind of meeting with a leader of the Venezuelan opposition,

however!

Is the US Grooming Next Year’s Anti-Chávez Presidential Candidate?
Democracy vs Bush-o-cracy in Venezuela

Wednesday, Jun 01, 2005
By: Jonah Gindin – Venezuelanalysis.com

From an ad hoc podium Maria Corina Machado addresses the gathered reporters sprawled out on the White House lawn before her. “Good morning. Yes, I had a meeting with Mr. President just now,” she says, “and we were invited because he's very interested to know the perspective of civil society about democratic values and the spread of democracy in particular in my country, Venezuela.” Machado is the founder and director of Súmate (Join Up), a Venezuelan non-governmental organization (non-Venezuelan government, that is). Her close ties to the White House, however, have been cause for concern in Venezuela for some time, where Súmate’s alleged neutrality has been called into question ever since it was founded in 2002.

According to Machado, Súmate is an objective non-partisan civil association. Súmate is the third NGO founded and directed by Machado, including one that worked with Venezuelan municipalities in the 1990s to privatize homeless shelters. To date, Súmate’s only political experience has been to agitate for the removal of Chávez by way of a recall referendum last August, though Chávez won nonetheless with 60 per cent of the vote. Their controversial role conducting flawed exit polls during the referendum—specifically criticized by the Carter Center and OAS observation missions in Venezuela—and their subsequent rejection of the referendum results, though both the Carter Center and the OAS declared them to be free and fair, have cast doubt on Súmate’s professed “neutrality.” When asked why Súmate has worked exclusively with the Venezuelan opposition since its inception in 2002, Machado said that their overtures to the government were regularly rebuffed. She did not specify whether her presence at the swearing-in of the illegal government of Pedro Carmona during a short-lived April 2002 coup may have sullied her reputation with Chávez’s government.

On April 11th of that year Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez—democratically elected in 1998 and again in 2000—was overthrown in what proved to be a short-lived coup. Before he was restored to power by massive popular protests and loyal elements of the military, however, a “transition government” was set up, and business leader Pedro Carmona Estanga sworn in as provisional President. Carmona’s first act as provisional Venezuelan leader was to abolish the Bolivarian Constitution—ratified by popular referendum in 1999—as well as the Supreme Court, the National Assembly and the Human Rights Ombudsman in what became known as the “Carmona Decree.” Present at Carmona's swearing-in ceremony were several hundred prominent Venezuelans, including business-leaders, media barons, politicians, and members of “civil society,” whose signatures (below) confirmed their attendance. Machado was one of the latter.
(snip/...)

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1466

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So _Bush has the U.S. taxpayer-funded N.E.D. fund her organization and they work hard on ways to remove Chávez from the elected office he holds.

It's a shame the right-wing blowhards don't take the time to do their homework, as it would surely streamline things at D.U.

[0007]

100. People worry about the damnest things, eh?

[stepnw1f]

11. Stop Worrying About What the Right Will Say

They don't even need facts to say the shit they do... so why worry? Besides... she doesn't work for the DNC.

[still_one]

13. I could care less what they think

but I do know what they will do with this

watch it be used against us

[ihaveaquestion]

23. You could care less, but ...

worry about how something will be used against "us". Who you including in that "us" of yours? Aren't you on Cindy's side? If so, you should find a way to support her.

One of their strengths is that they rarely eat their own. Try it sometime.

[still_one]

26. go with your idealism and see what results you get

unless we get power back, it does NOT matter, and this will be used against us

Am I on Cindy's side? What is HER side?

Is it more than getting the U.S. OUT of Iraq?

[AlinPA]

I'm trying to figure out why she went down there to met with him. ???

[still_one]

96. I have no idea either

all I know is that perception is everything

I have been through too many conflicts, and I am afraid history will repeat itself until more people are directly affected

[AZBlue]

107. What is her side?

And why must we all think alike here? I didn't think this was freerepublic.com - go there if you want everyone to march in step with your thoughts and opinions.

[arcane1]

17. thank you!

the right is ALWAYS going to say SOMETHING, ANYTHING, to attack the left. If they have no ammo, they will invent it

it's time to stop whining about what "they" will say and just do what needs to be done.

Cindy Sheehan has been attacked 24/7 by the right, and that would not have just stopped had she not met w/Chavez

and since Chavez isn't the ruler of a country we are at war with, I'm not sure how the Jane Fonda thing applies

though you must remember- Fonda got hammered for her actions, but the US got OUT of Vietnam eventually

[still_one]

22. U.S. got out of Nam, NOT because of the Fondas

more because of the people like Joan Biaz

In fact, fonda helped perpetuate the disaster longer

[msgadget]

25. Jane Fonda - an actress - did not EXTEND the war in 'Nam

She pissed people off, Baez calmed 'em down with her singing but neither had a direct affect on our withdrawal.

[still_one]

28. she was used as a tool

[msgadget]

34. That's so far from my understanding of events I won't debate it

but I do understand the concern you're expressing. You're worried the right will use her as an excuse to ignore the anti-war voices. Still_one, they diss their own war heroes so she has absolutely nothing to lose because, to them, it's not about the war but about their side being in the right. Everyone who disagrees gets a good whuppin'.

[still_one]

40. that is exactly what I am concerned with

We were making good progress, with Murtha, and even the American people, but I believe this will now put emphasis on the wrong issues

[arcane1]

42. and they were 'swift-boating' Murtha 24/7

the right will always attack. That is the reality of it.

[still_one]

46. except murtha won that battle because of his credibility

sheehan had that credibility, but will now lose it to those that she needed to convience.

[msgadget]

44. I understand but I wish you weren't so afraid

Even if we were all good little sheeple and behaved decorously they'd still throw mud. It's what they do. We can take it and toss it back, remember that.

[still_one]

47. Afraid no, frustrated YES

[AllieB]

89. Chavez, loony left AND right-wing urban legend from the Nam era

you've hit the trifecta! :bounce:

So Hanoi Jane was used as a tool by the Commies? With all that's been written in the past 35 years, you expect the well-read members of DU to believe an old urban legend?

[still_one]

97. hanoi jane was used by both sides to further their cause

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

49. The U.S. got of Nam because they got their ass kicked.

Just like they're getting their ass kicked in Iraq.

Jane Fonda prolonged the disaster? How, pray tell, did she accomplish that feat?

[still_one]

52. helped the pro-war movement in this country

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

57. Well, everbody I knew in the anti-war movement thought her a hero.

While the pro-warriors thought anyone who didn't want to slaughter non-whites was a commie.

[still_one]

98. and most who served in Nam have a different take

[AZBlue]

106. If we don't worry about what they say, we will continue to lose elections

and fights on issues.

They lie and spin and get the majority of Americans to vote against their own best interests and instead support the Republican machine. What they say matters to every one of us.

[msgadget]

14. No, she isn't

For some this is a cause but for Cindy it's very personal. She's never been demure in her speech or actions and doesn't use a political compass to decide her moves. Her actions have absolutely no impact on how fast our troops are coming home. Who gives a damn if the people on the right criticize her for this?? Even before this meeting they branded her as unpatriotic and some even blamed her son for getting killed.

I do, however, agree that partisanship in this country has gotten way out of hand.

Cindy, do what you must, girl.

[On the Road]

16. Cindy Sheehan is Not a Politician

She has marginalized herself to the point where, unfortunately, she is more of a hindrance than a benefit to the Democratic party. And I believe this is one reason she stays in the right-wing-controlled media spotlight.

I am a strong supporter of Chavez, but he is radioactive, especially for someone considering a Senate run. I agree with a lot of what she says about Palestinians, for example, and I think Americans need to hear some of those things. But those same things have put her out of the mainstream. Noam Chomsky couldn't get elected to the Senate in the US. Nor could Helen Keller or or Ramsey Clark have.

[AZBlue]

108. Nor does she understand politics.

She's become a hinderance to the Democratic Party as well as to herself. She's getting in her own way.

[xiamiam]

18. bullshit..nt

[xchrom]

19. spend more time exposing bush for the radical he is

and worry less about cindy.

she is doing just fine and way, way more than most to get the troops out of iraq.

have the nerve to stand UP for her.

[bpilgrim]

20. yawn

zzZZZ...

'She obviously believes that she is more important than the cause'

look who's talk'n

peace

[MrBenchley]

21. The real point of Cindy Sheehan was never Sheehan herself

It was that our "brave and manly" war pResident was terrified of a middle-aged lady.

But her 15 minutes were up long ago.

[Solon]

24. Who are you do define the "extreme" left...

You want the extreme left? Here it is. Otherwise STFU!!!!

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Yollam]

30. Name one thing "extreme left" about Chavez.

The fact that he is critical of Bush? won't privatize his oil industry as POS Bush demands? Is trying to help redistribute some wealth to the poor in his country?

What is called the "center" here in the US is extreme right in most of the civilized world, you should keep that in mind.


I actually disagree with Sheehan's meeting with Chavez, at least in conjunction with announcing her possible candidacy for Senate. Making such an announcement with a controversial foreign leader can only work against her.


But that doesn't mean Chavez is "far left" by any stretch. We desperately need a Chavez in this country, after 25 years of non-stop Reaganomics.

[still_one]

35. do you believe in capitalism?

or that people or business should NOT be allowed to own property?

[Yollam]

69. Not unfettered corporate-controlled US-style capitalism, but yes.

I'm still waiting for you to name something far left about Chavez. He is not a Marxist-Leninist, you know.

[BushOut06]

95. Yes he is a Marxist-Leninist

He is, I know this because Hannity told me so.

[manic expression]

87. I believe

that the community should own property, not greedy individuals and CERTAINLY not businesses. When one person denies others of what they deserve and need, that is wrong. However, when THE PEOPLE own the property, there is equity and justice.

So you believe that people should NOT be allowed to access their fair share? You believe that businesses can hoard wealth and pursue purely materialistic goals while others cannot find food or shelter?

It's called equality. It's called parity. It's called justice.

[rinsd]

37. I think leading a bolivarian style revolution is considered far left.

"What is called the "center" here in the US is extreme right in most of the civilized world, you should keep that in mind."

Huh? I would say right leaning compared to other centrists but extreme right?

Only if you define things through a Marxist lense.

[still_one]

43. excluding the time BEFORE FDR and excluding macarthism

the U.S. was mostly centerist until reagan

I do believe in capitalism with government to control abuses, i.e. monopolies, etc.

but pureness in any economic form does NOT work

[Yollam]

73. Socialism was quite popular in the US...

...until FDR appropriated many off its tenets into the New Deal and stole their thunder, simultaneously saving capitalism from itself. But then during the postwar years, the capitalists and their crony politicians reverted to their old plutocratic ways, and the reversion to a Gilded Age economic structure was pretty much completed between 1981 and today.

But I don't think you have to see things through a "Marxist lens" to appreciate democratic socialism, which is quite popular throughout the advanced nations, with the exception of the US, where the oligarchy has been successful in demonizing and distorting it to the point that most people don't know the difference between democratic socialism and Stalinism.

What countries are to the right of the US? Indonesia? Italy? There are very few if any.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

45. Only by those on the extreme right.

BTW Chavez was elected, democratically, by the people of Venezuela despite the usual interference by the Bush and his capitalist allies who are now whining.

[still_one]

50. I am NOT making an argument against chavez

and recognize the fact that this administration tried to overthrow him. The issue is that he is a polarizing hot button figure, that will only be used against us, to the people we need to convience, and I don't mean the right

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

67. You're dreaming. Most Americans don't even know who Chavez is.

And couldn't find Venezuela on a map. They don't give a rip about Chavez any more than they care about who's running Burundi.

[Solon]

74. Dude, hate to tell you, Chavez is no Communist...

He is, at worst, an anarcho-syndicalist(Libertarian Socialist, Chomskyite), or a Keynesian Economist, take your pick, but he isn't a Communist by any stretch of the imagination.

[PhilipShore]

29. The media, I think perhaps, highlights the most unrepresentive...

personalities and/ or inexperienced in dissent and liberalism for the Repukes-- benefit. For example Allen Ginsberg,whom the media made into a liberal media icon in the 60s, was frankly in my opinion, quite the opposite. I don’t have any training in psychology, but frankly I got the impression, that his personality was vegetative and zombie like--the exact opposite of what I seen in media infomercials of him in the 60s.

I actually met Allen Ginsberg briefly, and I have to say I was unimpressed. He certainly-- was not some --liberal giant -- that helped stop the Vietnam War.

[still_one]

32. I assume you are referring to the poet Ginsberg, and I agree

but that does not take away the reality of the situation, that this will be used against us

I am getting flamed big time for this thread, and I image in the next few days when the SOTU speech shows what a moran we have in the white house, this story will gain legs

[BuyingThyme]

33. You are the one who thinks she is more important than the cause.

Case closed.

[still_one]

36. we will see in the course of time

[BuyingThyme]

38. You've already made the case.

You think it's about her, not about the cause.

Isn't that what your post is about?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. Idiot for meeting with Chavez? Why would she lose support?

Who in the hell do you think supports her? Rush Limbaugh?

[still_one]

48. those that she needs to convience

not the right or the left, but the independents

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

53. Oh, yes, the independents. Who are sooo afraid of Chavez.

I got news for you. What's convincing the American people is the casualties and the cost of that little venture into colonialism for fun and profit.

[still_one]

56. no way, most americans ARE NOT affected

IT IS SOMEONE ELSES KID

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

62. Most Americans can see a war that's lost.

And, when they see the casualty figures and $$$ being pissed away, they tend to get concerned. As is obvious in the polls where Iraq is now the number 1 issue destroying Bush and his pals.

[still_one]

103. no way

1. There is no draft. It is someone elses kid who is getting killed, it doesn't affect them
2. They DO NOT see the casualty figures, and the dollars being pissed away have NOT affected them yet
3. As for the polls, the only poll that matters is the one in November, and only if we can insure a clean vote

[AZBlue]

112. I'm thinking still_one meant the middle folk - those not overly active

in politics because they don't care or don't have time or don't know enough about it. Unfortunately, that's a majority of the people in this country and many of them will vote with limited or no info - that's the people we need to reach and educate.

[AZBlue]

111. BINGO!!

Oh, still_one, I could kiss you!!! You get it - that's the group we need to win over. Otherwise, we're just "preaching to the choir" which is what Cindy's doing.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[still_one]

54. that is what I like about a good discussion

all the four letter words that are thrown about

gosh you sure made your point. Pure pragmitism

[Don Claybrook]

61. No...not one ounce of pragmatism

I've seen where the pragmatism has gotten us, over and over and over, ergo the language, ergo the disgust.

[Catrina]

77. I understand your point, but only if we lived in a country where

the opposing party cared about the country. Do you think the rightwing, Republicans ever worry about what WE might think of them?

If Bush thought it would be beneficial for him to hug Chavez, he do it and then the propaganda machine would run warm and fuzzy stories about Chavez at every opportunity. We'd see the old people who can now read, the poor who've been given land to farm, the new schools, etc. etc.

That's what we need to do ~ we need to stop cowering in the corner and crying 'what will they think of us'. We don't have to wonder, did you hear Cornyn on the Senate floor today? Nothing we do or don't do will stop them from sliming anyone who is against them.

There is zero profit to be gained from worrying about their opinion. I noticed people did that for a while with Michael Moore also. They bought into the smears from the right and tried to distance themselves from him.

I agree with Cindy, with Michael, with Chavez so let's start shoving it in their faces instead of worrying about it. A friend of mine asked me what I thought of Chavez recently and I told her everything I know, much of which comes from a friend WHO ACTUALLY LIVES there!!

Start standing up, not rolling over!! Bullies need to be bullied back. Let's stop caving into them. Let's be PROUD of those who are doing good in this world. The rightwing are the warmongering, lying, profiteers, criminals and we are not, and neither is Cindy.

[bpilgrim]

55. some are trapped in RW talking points and can't see past them

and then get the urge to try to foist them on the rest of us :eyes:

peace

[Libby2]

58. You said it !!

Very well too.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[still_one]

91. DON'T CALL ME A RW DEM

Do yourself a favor, PUT ME ON IGNORE

[Name removed]

109. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Judi Lynn]

113. johnnyblitz's post surely spoke for me. Couldn't be more fitting. n/t

[T Town Jake]

90. Childish reply. If you don't like the post, don't click on it.

n/t

[Don Claybrook]

99. You're not real good with irony, are you?

Does your little rule apply to you as well as to me? If so, why in the fuck did you post a reply to me? After all, if you don't like the post, don't click on it. Shall I repeat that?

And almost incidentally, what credentials do you have to tell me what to post, how to post, and when to post it, much less why I should give a damn about your profound and prolific post?

Really, you shouldn't have clicked on this.

[uppityperson]

59. She is a private citizen that can do what she wants.

Besides, the rightwingers have proven over and over that they do not need any sort of reality to prove anything. And, so what if she meets with him? She represents herself and can do what she wants. She is 1 person that many of us rallied around on our own. Extreme left? pshaw.

[AllieB]

64. Everyday there is an anti-Chavez/'loony left' thread

It's getting REALLY tiresome! :eyes:

[iconoclastNYC]

65. Why? Because the Repubs hate him?

The repubs hate Dean, does that mean nobody should meet with Dean?

[redqueen]

66. This is really productive.

:sarcasm:

[goodhue]

68. Chavez is great!

Why shouldn't Cindy meet with him?

I am getting so tired of divisive attacks on the so-called extreme left.

[elehhhhna]

71. The antiwar movement is bigger than Cindy now, and

I don't remember blindly throwing all my own thoughts and beliefs in the trash by agreeing with her on her anit-war stance.

[G_j]

72. you want to live a life dictated by what RWingnuts think

go right ahead.

new saying:
"What would Pat Robertson do?"

[boobooday]

76. So what?

When we get all up in arms about it, we play right into their hands. The only ones who think it matters are the right-wingers.

She speaks for herself. Most of the time I agree with her. Not always.

She is unpolished. She is authentic. That's why the right hates her. She's just real, and she's rolling on real emotion.

We need to stop picking apart people on our side who take action -- we need to stress that these are citizens, not actors hired by some PR firm, not "screened" citizens who will all sit politely and applaud on cue. They are real, honest-to-God outraged citizens, and they don't have scriptwriters. The right actually talks about Cindy as if she is a front for some sophisticated propaganda machine, because that is how they operate. They need to convince their followers that this angry mother lacks authenticity, that she works for Michael Moore, who works for . . . Osama or Saddam, or whatever illogical place they are going this week.

We need to turn their PR into a liability for them.

She's not a symbol. She's just a mom. She would be living quietly in NoCal right now, if it weren't for Bush's lies. He made her what she is.

In a country that loves its reality TV, this is what we need to stress. We are reality. We are the PEOPLENESS!

[GreenPartyVoter]

79. I still stand with Cindy.

------------------------------------------------------
How about some freakin’ election reform already?!

[dusmcj]

80. no, public domestic ignoring of Doober's flatulence is vital.

It needs to be seen that the only thing the Little Prince controls is :hurts:

[devilgrrl]

81. Please edmunicate me. What exactly is wrong with Chavez?

He didn't toe the corporatocracy line? SFW. What's wrong with him?

[OutNow]

82. Sheehan an Idiot? No, she is a Gold Star Mother for Peace

I had the honor of spending some time in Crawford last August with Cindy Sheehan. She spoke clearly then and is speaking clearly now. Her son and thousands of other Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis are dead because of Bush and his Imperialist foreign policy. While Bush has refused to meet with Cindy, other leaders have embraced her. She spoke to thousands during her recent trip to Europe and thousands more in Caracas last week.

And she spoke to Hugo Chavez. The elected president of Venezuela. The president who has done more to provide affordable heating oil to poor people in the United States than our own pResident. The president of a country who pledged to help Cindy and maybe pitch his own tent in the ditch in Crawford with her. Compare his approach of civil disobedience to Bush's support for the coup that briefly overthrew the elected government of Venezuela. Let's see - camping in Crawford vs violent overthrow - I pick Chavez's approach.

I better bone up on my Spanish. See you all in Crawford at Easter.

Bring the troops home now.
Mike Schlosser

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[still_one]

105. As far as you calling me a DINO

You have just violated the DU forum rules. You have NO IDEA WHO I AM OR WHERE I HAVE BEEN TO MAKE A JUDGEMENT AND CALL ME A DINO!!!

[meisje]

85. She needs material for her new book

[Beam Me Up]

86. Blech!

Enough of 'I know better than anyone else' supercilious attitudes from milk toast Democrats -- the very people who've apeased us into this unmitigated DIASTER of a pResidency. :puke:

[Cleita]

88. You know Chavez is not exactly Castro.

He's a legitimately elected and wanted leader of his country who is trying to bring change where corruption has reigned supreme since the days of the Conquistadors.

Our country tried to eliminate him like they did Allende in Chile, but it didn't work. We should take notes from those brave, working class Venezuelans who were finally able to get the government they wanted after so many blocks and detours on the road.

[still_one]

94. I know. My point wasn't even for or against him

it is the perception that most Americans are given in the MSM about him. I believe this will be used against us

[jmatthan]

110. Wish people with so much time on their hands

would start working on your Democrat representatives in Congress and the Senate rather than poking at someone who is not your party member, has received NOTHING from the Democratic party, never claimed to be a Democrat, and is doing more for the American troops than most of those who claim to be Democrats!!

[The Magistrate]

114. Locking

This has become a flame-war.