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"The Chink in the 'Hillary's an '08 lock' CW Armor" — A. Huffington

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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 02:41 PM
Original message
"The Chink in the 'Hillary's an '08 lock' CW Armor" — A. Huffington
Edited on Tue Jan-24-06 02:44 PM by NYCGirl
Interesting article discussing the conventional wisdom for Hillary's possible "shoo-in" status.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/the-chinks-in-the-hillar_b_14330.html

Short excerpt:

Even more damning is the fact that the presidential runs of both Al Gore and John Kerry attracted more upstate voters -- and carried more upstate counties -- than Hillary did. "If Gore and Kerry won upstate New York," writes Katz, "but couldn't make sufficient red-state inroads, Clinton's loss upstate doesn't seem to bode well for her potential in truly red parts of the country." The final nail in the upstate/redstate coffin: Hillary's upstate numbers are very similar to those of the senior senator from New York, Chuck Schumer -- and, as Katz zings it, "no one is talking him up as the Democrats' best chance to reclaim the White House."

The other side of the Hillary-can't-miss equation is her strength with the Democratic base. You often hear this from those trying to rationalize her feints to the right -- the thinking being that her triangulation is okay because, hey, she's already got the grassroots sewn up.

This CW was summed up by the New York Daily News when it brushed off Hillary's conservative stances, saying that despite her "ideological diversions, much of the Democratic power base still adores Hillary." Or as Susan Estrich wrote in "The Case for Hillary Clinton": "Which of your safe white men are going to excite the base the way Hillary does, so they can spend all their time in the middle. I'll answer: None."

But does the Democratic base really love Hillary?...
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. When she starts to take election fraud seriously, I might start
to think about considering her as a possible nominee.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
2. The middle is the problem, not the solution. n/t
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. "the only things in the middle of the road..."
"...are yellow stripes and dead armadillos."

I think it was Jim Hightower who said that.
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. I really like Hillary and always have but I kinda go along with
the idea that the election would be about her and not what's best for the country as a whole, I wish it weren't but :shrug:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. Hey, let 'em hammer her
it takes the heat off other possible candidates. I really think the Dems will think twice before nominating such a polarizing figure - not that that is her fault. But don't think for a minute the ultimate candidate will have it any easier. The Rs have raised gutter politics to a science.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. And that is a very good point--she'll either be hardened or break
One way or the other. Of course, this whole Hill in 08 thing could be a massive feint...she is drawing all the fire, and wouldn't the GOP cry bitter, hot tears if she decided not to run, Gore took it, and subsequently, a Democratic Senate confirmed her as a Supreme Court justice during the Gore presidency...followed by her husband (since he can get his law license back). She'd have to be called Justice Rodham, too, since that is the name on her law license.

Eh, pipe dream, but just the thought of the GOP whining and the sounds of their little pea-heads exploding makes me smile!
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. what a delightful picture you paint! n/t
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Ya gotta have dreams!
Keep hope alive!!!
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. I'd rather see Mario Cuomo on the SC than either of the Clintons, but
otherwise, it's a pretty good scenario!
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Well, Mario would make them MAD, but Hill would make them FURIOUS
You aren't supposed to enjoy the deep and abject pain of others, but in their case, I just have to make an exception!

I'd take old Mario in a heartbeat, if Hill was busy, though!
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Oooooh, I like it!!!!!!
:evilgrin:
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. If there is anyone in the Democratic Party...
Who knows how do deal with the sleaze machine of the Republicans it is Hillary Clinton. She has been accused of everything from lesbianism to murder...and has come out stronger every time.

She has been beating back this crap from them for 13 years. Hillary cannot be swift boated, she wouldn't allow it!!!
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Remember when that douchebag Rick Lazio tried to bully her in the debate?
She played that beautifully...she didn't get rattled, and he looked like the thuggish, uncouth asshole that he was. That striding over to her podium and waving that paper at her, it was priceless...it was almost as though he was unwittingly taking orders from a Democratic operative, it was so damn annoying. I did enjoy seeing that jerk banging nails into his own coffin!
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. That guy really was a punk...
Hillary kept her cool and dispatched him like a turd down the toilet bowl!!!
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 04:04 PM
Response to Original message
12. uh... .. can someone pleaset tell me what the hell does "CW" mean?
Edited on Tue Jan-24-06 04:04 PM by radio4progressives
sorry if it's a stupid question, but one of the problems with "inside the Beltway" rhetoric is failing to indicate what code their using for the benefit of those of us "outside" the beltway..
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. "Conventional wisdom" NT
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Really? I was thinking it was a polite way of saying: Corporate Whore. n/t
Edited on Tue Jan-24-06 04:11 PM by radio4progressives
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Often, the two concepts are interchangeable! n/t
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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Ok.. You're right it is Conventional Wisdom and not Corporate Whore..
:shrug: figured it out by the time i got to the very last line.

It's a pity. It's a good show that I love watching with my two teenage daughters. Which is more than I can say for Hillary's dreary slog toward '08. So forget the Hillary CW. Democrats looking to win back the White House had better start offering their "Reasons Why Not."

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radio4progressives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Never Mind..... I get it now... (duh)
sheesh!
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. 1. Two rightwing Bushite corporations own and control all the vote
Edited on Tue Jan-24-06 04:44 PM by Peace Patriot
tabulation in the U.S. with 'TRADE SECRET,' PROPRIETARY programming code, and with virtually no audit/recount controls, in an election system put in place by a $4 billion electronic voting boondoggle, compliments of Tom Delay, aimed an entirely corrupting our election system, and at lining the pockets of Bush's buds at Diebold and ES&S. Until this egregiously fraudulent election system is discarded by the American people, we will have no say in who our candidate for president is in 2008, no say in who is "elected," and little or no say in the composition of Congress.

2. Personally, I think Hillary has already been selected by the War Party, and has maybe even made a deal about becoming president. She's a woman after the main chance, and she knows perfectly well, I think, what positions she must take in order to be so selected, in the poisonous, fascist atmosphere of DC/NY/corporate war profiteering power politics. 60% of the country despises Bush and his war and, indeed, everything he stands for (poll after poll after poll after poll), yet we will NOT be permitted to nominate a candidate who represents that huge, 60%, progressive American majority. Instead, we will get someone who LIKES Bush's murderous war and who is just as much of a hypocrite as he is, as to using "the flag" to murder tens of thousands of people who possess the oil that we want. I am reviling her here, but I WILL support her--if my guess is right, NOT that she's a shoo-in among voters (Americans wouldn't choose a pro-war candidate on their own), but that she's the anointed and "selected" one, by the War Party. See #3 for my reason for supporting her (after the Primaries).* The War Democrat side of the War Party (about half of our Democratic leadership) wants to keep the war profits coming in, and also have the lunatic idea that the US military being fully present and fully hated in the Middle East somehow protects Israel. The fascist side of the War Party (all Republicans) want, a) a military Draft (Bush can't do it), b) a Democrat to put down the food riots, Draft protests, veterans' protests, and so on, c) a Democrat to invade Iran and Syria (they will arrange Gulf of Tonkin II for that purpose), and d) a Democrat whom they can start blaming for Bush's domestic and foreign policy disasters, preparatory to their installation of the real Hitler in '12. (I have thought that would be Jeb, but these days I'm thinking Donald Rumsfeld.) In '12, we will then see what all these extraordinary executive powers that Bush is setting up, are for.

*3. I think a War Democrat can be talked into serious election reform. Even a War Democrat has to pay lip service to progressive values, such as transparent elections. Getting our election system back into the public venue, and out of the hands of private Bushite corporations is a MUST DO, PRIORITY #1 item for me. Without transparent elections, we have guaranteed fascist rule forever, and our democracy is over. So, after putting my two cents worth in during the Primaries, on the candidate who is most anti-war and most progressive, I will do everything I can for Hillary, with election reform at the forefront of my mind, and I hope to help put it on her legislative agenda, for a quick federal fix (along the lines of Russ Holt's HR 550) of the currently NON-TRANSPARENT system, to get as much transparency as possibly as soon as possible (and we can push for more in the state/local election reform movements). I am reminded of Martin Luther King trying to head a civil rights movement, and achieve voting rights for black citizens, in the midst of the Vietnam war. You cannot ignore the larger reality, but you have to stay focused on what you consider THE most important reform for long term benefit.

----

Note: Why would Hillary need my help? Diebold and ES&S can't simply manufacture an election--not yet anyway. The candidate has to have some support--you can't tweak the vote if there aren't any. The candidate has to get competitive, to be Diebolded into office. This is the only strategy that makes sense to me, given Bushite control of the vote count--to go with their Democrat (after the Primaries), and hope that, a) they've decided to go with a War Democrat, to have somebody to blame for everything; or b) that, if they haven't, we can catapult her/him into office with an overwhelming vote. (In 2004, I believe they were limited by the need to pre-program certain percentages of vote switching from Kerry to Bush, and we could possibly overcome this automatic disadvantage in any Diebold/ES&S controlled election with a huge turnout.)

------------

I realize how cynical all this must sound to some. But I do NOT intend it in any way as cynical or sarcastic. I think that we must strategize on the basis of truth and reality. What I've said about the election system is the truth--it is real and provable. A lot of what I've said about Hillary Clinton is based on long experience as a U.S. voter (first vote in 1964), and as a political activist and observer of the American political scene. It is my best guess. (There are other possible scenarios.) But the upshot is that I think the deck is totally stacked this time, and it is folly to think that we, the people, will have any say in who our candidate is, or who gets selected for major offices. We have to deal with this REALISTICALLY and try to get our election system back in public control.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
22. kick
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
23. The east coast media and DC beltway crowd love Hillary.
Edited on Tue Jan-24-06 05:14 PM by Radical Activist
They are hopelessly out of touch with the rest of the nation, which does not share their notion about who the nominee should be.
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