If males got pregnant, would there be any discussion for or vs abortion?

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

Poll question: If males got pregnant, would there be any discussion for or vs abortion?

I'm gonna try to split this by male and female, just to see.

[JI7]

1. rarely, no real serious efforts to ban abortion

birth control would most likely be government funded for anyone. it just would not really be an issue.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

3. I expect you're right. yep. n/t

[Yupster]

38. Yeah those men

they're so corrupt. Let's all make fun of them

[napi21]

2. No, men wouldn't have abortions! But the human race would die off!

Once the first guy gave birth, he'd spread the word and they'd all get their tubes tied!

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

4. Haha

:rofl:

[Yupster]

39. Yeah those men

they're so weak. It's amazing they even manage to shave themselves without complaining for a painkiller.

[jbnow]

5. If men got pregnant

and women did not from the start of time? Or if it was a sudden switch?

If men were always the child bearers women would be the more testosterone laden? Men would be the gathers as we went off hunting? And on and on.

We (women) would be the majority in Congress since the little men really started getting into politics rather recently.

We'd sort of...well be men. They'd even get the breasts since they feed the child...and delivery through the penis wouldn't be very intelligent design, so they'd have our genitalia? And we'd have theirs?
Could we at least keep the multiple orgasms?

But you can't mean all that because then we'd still be different sexes in reverse.

But if we ALL could get pregnant, like humans were hermaphrodites? Abortion would have been legal sooner and would never be reversed. The problem is one group not directly affected having the power over the decisions of the group that is directly affected.

And even now...how many of these married anti-choice guys would want their girlfriends to have a baby and not an abortion? What about their wives or daughters if they had been raped or were still in high school or had an affair with (gasp) a black man and gotten pregnant?

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

13. Either way. But males and females of the human species would

otherwise be just as they are nowadays.

Unlikely, I know.

[niyad]

6. "if men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament" so said

florynce r kennedy in 1973.

[kath]

12. you beat me to it - great quote.

[Yupster]

40. Yeah those men

they're such religious ypocrites.

[fortyfeetunder]

7. Just like the Viagra gig

Remember when that little blue pill made the scene, and there were health plans that covered Viagra but not birth control?
Left me with one big :wtf:

[Strawman]

28. Yeah, there'd be an RU-486 sponsored NASCAR

[hippiechick]

29. Excellent Observation !

Unfortunately, you're probably quite right.
Sigh.

[f-bush]

8. Done

[Neil Lisst]

9. If men could get pregnant, RU486 would be included in beer.

Is it RU486?

[Yupster]

41. Yeah those men

all they can think of is being drunk and lazy.

[serryjw]

10. Viagra is paid for by the gov't !

Do we have any doubts?

[badgerpup]

11. Are you surprised?

Read The Fresco by Sherri S. Tepper. There is a section where people are asked how they truly feel about issues such as pro-life...and the boys indeed have a chance to put their money where their bellies are. Seems men...the male type human...are perfect hosts for incubating alien offspring.
Doesn't kill them, oh no...but the 'birth' or emergence process is...well...messy as well as very painful.
:nopity:
The idea of a certain hate radio talk show host being knocked up and forced to carry to term amused me immensely.
:bounce: :rofl: :woohoo:

[Binka]

23. Wow 22 Months Gestation For That Nasty Bull Shit GOP Elephant

http://www.upali.ch/pregnancy_en.html

[T Town Jake]

14. The debate would be the same. Abortion is not about a fetus/baby...

...in terms of the real lives of real people: it is about political control of the most intimate aspects of private life - and lives. There is a large segment of human society that has always craved this kind of control since we, as a species, first began to walk upright.

Today they are called regular viewers of the 700 Club.

It has always been so - and would be even if the genders physically swapped such child-bearing roles. Fanaticism such as this knows no specific gender - as Ann Coulter and the "Concerned Women for America" amply demonstrate.

[Debs]

15. If men got pregnant

Not only would abortion be federally funded, there would be abortion clinics on every streetcorner

[Yupster]

42. Yeah those men

they're far too lazy to travel to a clinic. Just like they need a malt liquor on every corner they'd need an abortion clinic on every corner too.

[cassiepriam]

16. If men got pregnant, abortion would be a holy sacrament

[kath]

60. Yeah, and if men menstruated...

http://www.haverford.edu/psych/ddavis/p109g/steinem.menstruate.html

[patdem]

17. I always said, if men could get pregnant abortions would be performed

in the barber shop. That is all things being the same with white men ruling over everything.

[CTLawGuy]

18. How do you explain anti-choice women?

I think people opposed to abortion are working under a sincerely-held (albiet irrational) belief that a fetus is a living being.

[GrpCaptMandrake]

24. The same way you explain

slaves who didn't want to leave the plantation.

There is fear in freedom.

The self-hating women who support the doughy, pasty-faced, ignorant men who want to control them are operating on something akin to the Stockholm Syndrome, where the abductee begins to identify with the abductor.

On a very base level, it is possible that some of these people believe life begins at conception. But it is the exception, and not the rule. Abortion, legal or not, is a process a male cannot know. And he cannot know whether one has been performed. I always think of that scene from the Godfather where Diane Keaton tells Michael Corleone she aborted his son. It is in this absence of knowledge, let alone control, that motivates the anti-woman movement.\

The Roman Catholic Church, for instance, is entirely controlled by men. Is it any surprise, then, that the Church wants to exert control over womens' bodies, and is even willing to do so through fearmongering and plain dishonesty?

[CTLawGuy]

32. If you are implying that the catholic church acts in the self interest of

men, then how do you explain these views (which are also shared by other anti-choice religious groups)?

1. Pornography: men like it, Catholic Church is against it.

2. Masturbation: almost all men have at least tried it, and most do it regularly, but the catholic church, at least throught its history, has said it was sinful.

3. Premarital intercourse: it is natural male instinct to try to have sex with many partners, but the church is against the practice of sex outside of marriage (which can only be with a single woman).


Religious conservatives are acting not on the self-interest of men or any other group, but rather responding to their need for a structured, ordered world. Part of that order is that a fetus is a human being and murdering a human being is wrong. This need for order underlies conservative thought.

[bettyellen]

68. oh bullshit, the "stucture and order" you speak of is designed to keep

women as second class citizens.
men can easily skirt the rules and get away with it, and they know it. women pay the price for the "sin", as per usual. if men bore the same consequences, they wouldn't go along with it.

[CTLawGuy]

70. Why do women go along with at, if, as you claim, it keeps them second

class citizens.

As someone who thinks women are generally intelligent, self-respecting people,this puzzles me that they would go along with something that allegedly makes them second class. Perhaps you don't agree with my characterization of women, leading you to believe they are duped or manipulated into following it.

But that doesn't sound like a very feminist conception of women at all.

Perhaps the real answer is that religion is something other than a consipratorial tool to clandestinely benefit men.

[bettyellen]

71. wow, you need some schooling re: reigions, society.

allegedly makes them second class? you are kidding, right? spoken like a man, :rofl:
women to a certain extent have been forced to take 2nd place, because traditionally they are the child caregivers as well as bearers. doh. religion reinforces this as the preferable- or actually required roles for women to take in society. women who chose to do other than breed are shit as far as the church is concerned.
know much about culture or the evolution of societies? seems not.
nice trying to bait me and make me sound anti-feminist while you are the patriarchal apologist here. very funny.
do some reading, will ya?
C'ya.

[CTLawGuy]

74. so why is childbearing and rearing below work outside the home?

Is it better to work 12 hours a day in a mine, or die in a war?

Yes, the church prescribed specfic roles for men and women. These arose out of a primitive order that was neither fair nor efficient (considering the vast differences in abilities and prefernces of individuals within the group of men or women), but that seemed to work based on what they had.

You should take a look at "The Manipulated Man" by Esther Vilar, which, even if you don't agree with her view, shows how people can have different perspectives on the old system.

I am not convinced that the system was created for the sole benefit of men as a whole. Just as women could not work outside the home, men were forced to work outside the home, and could not stay home and rear children.

the new system is supposed to give both men and women (well at least women) the choice as to whether to work or stay home.

are women who choose to stay home, as my mother did, aiding the patriarchy?

Or is feminism about women making choices as long as the radical feminist approve of the choices they make?


I offer reasoning, and you offer insults - "spoken like a man". All those statements do is make you sound hypocritical and alienate your allies. Is feminism about women's self interest or is it about a higher goal of gender equality? When you engage in the same behavior toward men that you deplore when done to women, it makes me wonder.

I care about gender equality, but why should I give a flying flip about women's self interest?

[bettyellen]

75. i don't know how old your mom is, but in most of the 20th century

most women didn't feel like they were making a choice. society told them loud and clear where their place was. ignore that, and yeah, you'll come off as ignorant.
i am a feminist, and our society still treats women as 2nd class citizens in many ways, hence the "self-interest" you find so problematic.
why should you give a flip about 1/2 the poplulation? LOL. whatever, dude, keep telling yourself you're an ally. :rofl:

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

36. The way I see it is that the "rights" of certain mostly white men,

so used to being in power, would trump many times over any "sincerely-held" belief re abortion.

And the external or legislated control that seems so natural to so many when applied to women's bodies just would hardly get a second thought if it were to be applied to men's bodies.

[CTLawGuy]

47. dupe

NT

[CTLawGuy]

48. do you have anything to back that up?

Why are fundies against Pornography, masturbation, and sex with multiple partners, all popular with men?

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

57. None of those things are illegal, though?

So it is men in general, not fundies, that I'm referring to.

[CTLawGuy]

59. men in general

are not against abortion, such that you can generalize that they are.

Fundies however are, and they are against everything I've mentioned.

so to generalize the position of fundies to men in general and then use that as a comparison is illogical.


And also, abortion is legal.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

61. Men in general hold more power than women in general.

If men became pregnant, that power would be used to make abortions very available.

I don't get why you keep bringing up fundies, I never said anything about fundies at all in this topic.

[CTLawGuy]

64. on what grounds?

since I see no evidence that men in general are particularly more against abortion than women in general. What would it matter who was in power?

I also pointed out that people who are against abortion are often also against things men like, such as pornography and multiple sex partners. That goes to disprove that people who are against abortion are working in the simple self-interest of men, which I gather is the point of this thread.

[bettyellen]

76. then you need to go look at statisitcs and then come back and argue

because men are much less supportive of reproductive freddom than women are. always have been.
go look it up.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

77. This IS a poll. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. n/t

[Totally Committed]

19. If men could get pregnant, abortion would not just be a CHOICE,

it would be a sacrement.

[Beer Snob-50]

20. i think the issues would be the same

i believe that those on the anti-abortion side are sincere in their stand on the issue (well not the politicians on that side, but many of those rabid wolverines in the trenches)

[Captain Hilts]

21. And it would be done in a hospital rather than next door to a 7/11 nt

[mattomjoe]

22. Going by the poll and posts here, it's interesting how some women will

sharpen their claws the moment a man presumes to know what it's like to be a woman (especially when it comes to pregnancy), but they just KNOW what it would like to be a man if the tables were turned. :eyes:

[Yupster]

43. Amazing the number of just gratuitous insults

that will get tossed around when men are the targets of conversation.

Crap like this would never be tolerated aimed at the disabled, women or minorities, but if men are the topic it seems perfectly acceptable to just take generic potshots at them.

Just imagine similar stereotypes being posted about another group and the moderators couldn't race quick enough to delete them, but if the generic insults are aimed at men, then they're acceptable.

And I think people think they're actually being funny.

[CTLawGuy]

50. this sort of double standard

hurts the feminist movement's credibility with the masses, and it's a shame because feminism is about great things.

Feminists thus become crazy man-haters to mainstream society.

[Humor_In_Cuneiform]

63. I do believe some of the jokes were posted by males.

What are your examples of "gratuitous insults" tossed around about men?

Unfortunately the bias towards women is so ingrained that it is most often taken for granted, not even recognized as what it is.

[mopinko]

25. the only flaw in this argument-

if men were the ones who got pregnant, they would probably be the ones with no power.

[KansDem]

26. You mean these guys?

As members of Congress look on, President Bush signs the Partial Birth Abortion Act of 2003 Wednesday.

Looks like this bill could have been signed on a country club golf course.

[xchrom]

27. ugly suits r us.

[jhain]

30. hell, no.

It would be drive- thru, like Mickey D's complete with 99 cents days

[Yupster]

44. Yeah because we all know

how cheap and lazy men are, don't we.

[cindyw]

31. Ever notice that GOP never criticizes male vasectomy.

Surely male vasectomy is a form of birth control.

[SteppingRazor]

33. Other: You have to see the larger ramifications of this...

If men wer ethe ones who got pregnant that would mean that, before "men's lib" in the 1960s, it was men who stayed home with the children while women went to work.
The entire power structure would be opposite. We would live in a matriarchy instead of a patriarchy. As a result, the obvious answer -- that men would immediately be able to get abortions -- isn't necessarily true, because men wouldn't be the ones in power making the rules.
Women would be the dominant gender, in all likelihood. It's tough to say how that would pan out in terms of abortion rights, but my guess is it would look more or less like it does today. After all, as with men, for every rational, pro-choice woman, there's a shrieking fundie going into convulsions over it.

[zann725]

34. NO! And it's (respecftully) NONE of their friggin' business...EVER!

Our bodies...our choice! When I hear these 'fat old white men' constantly battering on Women's "Rights to Life"...I teeth-grittingly change the channel every time.

If it WERE reversed, there never would be even a "discussion." Enough! In case they hadn't check, Women have NOT been 'chattel' for some time now.

[truebrit71]

35. If men got pregnant it would be the FIRST article of the constitution...

...this argument isn't about killing poor, innocent babies, this is PURELY about controlling women...

These is nothing that a republican male fears more than an educated, liberated woman....

[AZBlue]

37. Abortion would not only be legal but it would be free.

So would birth control.

[Yupster]

45. That's right because

there's nothing more cheap than a man in heat.

[DesertRat]

46. Stephanie Miller said if men got pregnant...

You could get an abortion at Circle K. :rofl:

[nickinSTL]

49. I'm afraid that the entire history of civilization would be SO

different, it's impossible to say.

If men and women both experienced pregnancy...who knows?

If only men did, women would likely be the "dominant" gender.

[AtomicKitten]

51. Nothing more disheartening than to see

a bunch of pasty-faced old fart males sign anti-abortion legislation.

[skids]

52. There are supporting forces other than sexism.

Although sexism is by far the largest driver of the rightist side of the debate, there's also the need to have an ever-replenished supply of naive young adults for military and economic exploitation. It's in the interest of the powers that be to ensure that children are raised with inadequate education and opportunity, such that they are forced into taking what is offered to them by the powered elite.

So the debate would still be there, but it would be much different.

[CTLawGuy]

53. the anti-abortion crusade

is a result of Biblical language being interpreted a certain way, to suggest that persons are living from the point of conception. It is a relatively minor point in Christianity. However, a conservative seeks an ordered society.

They need to be assured that the world conforms to certain norms, probably from a psychological disposition which I cannot explain. A liberal, by contrast, wants to change the rules, through progress, to form a more equitable and equal society.

One of those norms is that innocent life should not be taken by another's intentional act. They interpret the Bible to say that conception is the beginning of life.

[skids]

56. While that may apply to the rank and file...

...the truth of the matter is that it is stoked and perpetuated by interests outside of ideology.

[CTLawGuy]

58. by republicans seeking votes

They take advantage of this belief to pick up easy votes.

[IndianaGreen]

54. The Pope will declare abortion to be a virtue!

The Southern Baptist Convention would be distributing condoms to its members.

[beaconess]

55. Abortion would be legal, but unnecessary

since men would have developed a failsafe form of birth control centuries ago!

[Skittles]

62. lol, if males got pregnant

the human race would have ceased to exist a long, long time ago

[ieoeja]

65. Other: if males got pregnant, they would females.

And, yes, the discussion would go on as the females who are then males would have the same biological imperatives to reproduce as the males who are now males.

[leftofthedial]

66. If males got pregnant

there would be no fundamentalism

[Kablooie]

67. But then the Congress would be all women and the politics work the same.

all the men would be staying home to take care of the babies instead of getting jobs and all the laws would be women-centric.

Seahorse world, here we come.

[last_texas_dem]

69. I believe there would still be a discussion

but the percentages of pro-choice/anti-legalized abortion among the genders would change a bit, and there would be a slightly larger pro-choice consensus than there is now. The reason I don't think the discussion would simply end is based on the number of women who currently consider themselves "pro-life." I think there would be a similar split within the gender if it were men who got pregnant.

And while it may seem significant that the majority of lawmakers, even now, are male, I think the fact that there are many who are anti-legalized abortion has less to do with the fact that they are male and more to do with the constituencies they represent. There are plenty of men in Congress who are pro-choice and plenty of women who are anti-legalized abortion and, I believe, this has the most to do with the constituencies they represent, with their public views on the matter perhaps even contradicting their personal ones at times.

[Jim__]

72. If males got pregnant ...

they'd be female - essentially, it's the definition. Everything would be the same.

[Doctor_J]

73. "Abortion would be a sacrament", I think is how it goes

the discussion would have ended way back in the days before women could vote or own property.

[Catchawave]

78. As a DU female elder.....

..there are no appropriate answers to this question, as fine as you proposed it.

Sorry, "Men" couldn't get past their first trimester without forcing the female species to kill them. OHMIGOD, the WHINING....LOL.

[we can do it]

79. If Males/Pregnant - We'd All Get A Couple "PMS" Days Off Every Month, Too

When does this start?