I read this on DailyKos and I know why I'm fighting for a Dem majority

[LynneSin]

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/12/22/31115/171

Check out the voting for the budget cuts - not one democratic senator went against the party - NOT ONE FRICKING DEMOCRAT WENT AGAINST THE FRICKING PARTY. In fact we even had 5 republicans cross over meaning that it was Cheney to save ass for the republican party.

And Pelosi is putting up the fight of her life to prevent these cuts in the House and damn if she isn't taking Hasert and the repukes to task. And Hasert/Delay are gonna pay for keeping the house closed later than normal to protect Delay's Majority seat.

If this doesn't give you a reason to vote for the democrat majority even if you're stuck voting for a moderate democrat, I don't know what is. Pelosi & Reid are doing all then can to trying to keep our heads above water but it's damn difficult when we don't have a majority.

But bless them both for the hard work they are doing. If they continue fighting like this in 2006, I can assure you that I will continue to fight for them and the democratic majority here at DU.

Just remember this:

Primary Election: Vote to get rid of bad democrats
General Election: Vote to get rid of REPUBLICANS

[flamingyouth]

1. And yesterday Ebeneezer Frist said it was about "fiscal responsibility"

:eyes:

[Lerkfish]

2. I haven't seen anyone arguing the opposite.

Primary Election: Vote to get rid of bad democrats
General Election: Vote to get rid of REPUBLICANS

that's pretty much what the anti-DLC folks are saying as well.

its like the "war on christmas"....pro-DLC posters keep wanting to fabricate the notion that progressives are not avocating what you just stated.
But its simply not true. Progressives are avocating EXACTLY what you are saying.

the only difference is, supporters of DLC candidates think progressives are bad democrats, and vice versa.

[LynneSin]

4. Yes but I see a bunch of anti-DLC that define DLCers as 'republicans'

which is what really pisses me off. Just because someone doesn't vote exactly the way I would vote doesn't mean they're a republican. We need ever "D" candidate in office regardless of how moderate or how liberal they are because the more of those "D" we have the better chance we have for Pelosi and/or Reid in charge

[Lerkfish]

9. yeah, I'm aware of how much that pisses you off...but

I think some are saying that if a DLC democrat votes like a republican, there is no empirical difference.
A majority of Dems is only useful if its employed as a bloc.
What we have seen instead, is people like Lieberman crossing over to genuflect to the republicans, and in addition, spend a great deal of time castigating publicly other dems.
In that case, having a DLC candidate is not MUCH of an advantage over having a republican.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lerkfish]

17. your hostility is unwarranted.

read what I said, instead of making false accusations. thanks.

[RaleighNCDUer]

18. DLCers aren't republicans

but they sure like to dress up in republican drag.

That said, when the DLCer or anti-DLCer you voted against in the primary wins, you go ahead and vote for the D in the general election, regardless. It's the majority in control that sets the agenda in congress.

It bothers me how so many here don't get that.

[Lerkfish]

19. where have you seen anyone suggest differently?

I have yet to, on either side. BOTH DLC proponents and progressives say just that: fight in the primary and then support whoever survives in the general.

There is this rovian "liberals hate christmas" aura to this nonissue.

[RaleighNCDUer]

21. Actually, you may remember there was a lot of that in the run up

to the last election.

People posting "if so-n-so doesn't get it, fuck him, I'm voting Green". People so proud of their progressive credentials that it seems they'd rather see a repub win than vote for Lieberman or Biden.

Silly and counterproductive, I agree, but it's out there.

[purji]

29. but did they really vote third party?

It seems to me that when Kerry won the primary every one here did their best for Kerry.
Did I want Kerry to win the primary- No I didn't.
Did I work to get him elected-yes I did.
I know people say if this happens or that doesn't happen I'm voting green,but do they really?

[RaleighNCDUer]

30. That is the question, isn't it. nt

[jonnyblitz]

3. so will you stick up for me after everybody shuns me for voting

for Lieberman here in CT? :P :hi:

[LynneSin]

5. Like you had to ask that dumbass question

:hug:

my assumption is that you're only voting for lieberman if he's the winner of the primaries although if you vote for him in the primaries that's your choice - you live in Connecticut, not me!

[bigscott]

6. there are a lot of us

that would vote to oust lieberman in the primary. if he is the Dem we would still vote for him while holding our noses (at least I would). Just wonder how we will feel when he switches parties

[LynneSin]

8. You know, why the hell would Lieberman switch parties?

Talk about dumbass

First, the guy is one of the strongest advocates for choice, campaign reform, healthcare, civil rights, social support system and the environment out there. You think the republicans want that in their party just because the guy is pro-war? Hell they chased Jeffords out for just those reasons mentioned above. Lieberman has stellar ratings from ACLU, NARAL, LCV, HRC, Amnesity International. Yeah, he's a republican.

Plus, Lieberman has senority in the party and a platform to support the issues that he cares deeply about like his passionate plea to pull the ANWR drilling amendment out of the defense budget. For someone so fricking republican that he's ready to switch parties, that surely won't endear him.

I don't mean to be rude but all this party switching stuff is baloney along with the "Lieberman is going to take a position on Bush's cabinet".

Think of it this way - right now the republican party is a leaky, sinking ship with all the scandals and unpopularity. Whereas the democratic party is like a newly built, best-of-the-line yacht. You think Lieberman is going to jump from his safe boat to a sinking ship? Even Lieberman is not that dumb

[Lerkfish]

10. wow. defending lieberman?

I really have nothing to say to that. I can see tolerating him, but praising him?

[LynneSin]

11. When he does something praiseworthy - hell yes. And yesterday he did

but I'm not going to deal with these false rumors about party switching and joining the Bush cabinets. I mean, hey, I'm not the authority on Lieberman but if you look at how he could benefit being in the republican party instead of the democratic party there is none.

I defend him as far as if he is the candidate for the Connecticut democratic party after the primaries then we need everyone in CONNECTICUT (I mean, 99% of us probably can't vote for the guy) to make sure we keep that seat in the "D" column. And the reasons why is all there in the DailyKos link. Voting for Lieberman (in the general election) is Connecticut's way of saying "We want Harry Reid running things in the Senate. That's why I'm voting for DLCer Tom Carper!

[Lerkfish]

13. why does he attack other democrats for holding bush accountable?

[LynneSin]

14. He's defending the war and trust me I don't praise him for that

See, here's a silly notion. The war will not end without a democratic majority somewhere. It may not end with a democratic majority but a timeline will be debated on and at least a vote will be out there if we have a majority.

Joe adds to that majority and damnit, I want it.

I mean, have you read this thread, even someone from Connecticut posted that if necessary he'll hold his nose and vote for Joe just for that democratic majority.

But from the way you sound, I'm guess you must like the war so much that you would actually advocate not voting for democrats just because you don't like them even if that means we can't get the majority thus no possible chance of debating the war and getting a vote on the timeline.

Right now every single democrat out there can fall in line with the "Get out of Iraq" now and NOTHING will happen. It won't be debated, it won't go to committee it won't be voted for. Because without a majority it's a dead issue. Republcians don't want it.

I just want the debate, I want it on C-Span and sound bytes on the nightly news and in 2008 I want every single politician defending why they supported a war that will not end. But it will never happen if we start booting out democrats we don't like.

[Lerkfish]

16. "I'm guess you must like the war so much"

um, no I asked a simple question.
I asked WHY joe would attack other dems for holding Bush accountable.

I asked a question about a candidate, I did not personally attack you, now did I? why can you not extend the same courtesy?
I'm as antiwar in my philosophy as possible. To accuse me of liking war is unfounded, and without merit.

and, as you've demonstrated, you continue to make the false accusation that I avocate not voting for democrats. As i stated in my first post in this thread, this is the problem with pro-DLC posters here: they make false claims and strawmen.

I was AGREEING WITH YOU that in the primary, vote against bad dems, and in the general vote for the dem selected.

why does that not penetrate your prejudice?

[jonnyblitz]

7. LOL...yup.

:D

[LynneSin]

12. Why do I yell at these people, not like they can vote for him

:eyes:

And I'm talking senate only. Hell no on president, hell I won't even vote for Biden (well, I'll vote for either if some bizarro reason one of them wins the primary but you better believe I'll do all I can to stop that from happening)

[jonnyblitz]

20. it's easy to say "I would never vote for him" if they actually

don't have the option to anyway. I can picture me saying it if I didn't have to.

[pfcpittman]

22. havent the cuts already gone through the house

[rockymountaindem]

23. Like someone else on DU once said

Having a Democrat, even a moderate, empowers the progressives thanks to the numbers game. How true that is.

[LynneSin]

24. I'm not a fan of Joe and I'm not defending him

but I'm also tired of this mentality that anyone who doesn't vote just the way we want them to is deemed a "republican". We have a chance to get rid of him and that's called the primaries. After that Connecticut needs to do their part to keep that seat in the "D" column because we're going to have some tough races out there trying to find 6 new seats and holding on to some close races in 2 seats with retiring democrats (Minnesota & Maryland) and one with a replacement democrat (New Jersey)

[madfloridian]

25. Lieberman questioned our patriotism, and he paid dearly that week.

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/12/07/murtha-responds-to-lieberman/

"Murtha responds to Lieberman.

Lieberman yesterday: “It is time for Democrats who distrust President Bush to acknowledge that he will be commander in chief for three more critical years and that in matters of war we undermine presidential credibility at our nation’s peril.”

Murtha today: “Undermining his credibility? What has he said that would give him credibility?” December 7, 2005 2:32 pm |

And he was given a lot of petitions by DFA;

http://www.blogforamerica.com/archives/007281.html

I don't know who specifically you are referring to in the OP. I post criticism of those I feel are not standing for our best interests.

Yes, some of the more centrist Democrats do seem to be more like this bunch of Republicans than they are like what Democrats should be.

I have posted two of the DLC blogs telling us to back off about criticizing Bush and wanting to leave Iraq. I have been said to be a DLC-hater, which is not true.

Joe Lieberman has no right to say I can not criticize the president, nor does Bull Moose (an independent former Republican Christian Coalition lobbyist for Pat Robertson) have a right to criticize good Democrats like Dean, Murtha, and Pelosi.

But here Lieberman has a good day and everyone gives him kudos...but oh, have we heard anymore about Iraq? Or Murtha?

[LynneSin]

27. I'm not defending Lieberman

hell, I can't even vote for the guy.

We need a dem in that seat and if the liberal democrats can't get him unseated in the primaries then we need him to win in the general election

[nmliberal]

26. Thank you, thank you

I really liked your "...Primary Election: Vote to get rid of bad democrats
General Election: Vote to get rid of REPUBLICANS..."

[LynneSin]

28. You're welcome and btw....

Welcome to DU :hi:

[greiner3]

31. Good Dems;

Even the ones in DC!